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 IHateNids wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

I'm inclined to agree. I think the key to beating marines now in 9th is being able to handle mass gravis. Which is something destroyers (in any variety) are good at.

It's about the only thing I actually feel remotely confident about saying so far about the new dex (granted I have not been able to actually collect it yet - hooray shifts)

I genuinely think the first thing I am going to try is ditching vehicles entirely, just to see how things go (Maybe I'll use the Stalker still... not sure). Will be very wierd not moving 6 big lumps around every single board I'm ever playing on, but I am looking forward to it.

I'm pretty leery of destroyers, considering both the changes to RP, and the limitations of cryptek support. Statwise, they're still solid, but they feel an order of magnitude more fragile compared to last edition.

Yeah I think at the moment the ranged destroyers are just a bit overcosted as I think GW is overestimating how tough they are. Even with the relic orb on a squad of 6 reduced to 1 (and there's no guarantee a savvy opponent will let you do that) you aren't likely to bring back more than two.

Things might change with a points drop but for now I think one of our best bets to answer the inevitable gravis spam is the humble triarch stalker with heat ray. Yes you have to get close but they have two shots that can be hitting on 2s that are ap-4, wound on 3s and auto kill them in half range and in combat they have ap-2 and 3 damage — and again can be hitting on twos with the triarch strat. They're also fairly resilient against eradicators as far as vehicles go with quantum shielding and 12 wounds. For their points cost I think it's a pretty good deal.

I like the idea of regular destroyers being tanky, heavy support firebase units. The execution is just really underwhelming

If they were 60 points and were harder to kill (T6? 4 wounds? 2+sv?) and their firepower was better, I'm all for it. Right now they're about 15 points overcosted

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Yeah I think at the moment the ranged destroyers are just a bit overcosted as I think GW is overestimating how tough they are. Even with the relic orb on a squad of 6 reduced to 1 (and there's no guarantee a savvy opponent will let you do that) you aren't likely to bring back more than two.

Things might change with a points drop but for now I think one of our best bets to answer the inevitable gravis spam is the humble triarch stalker with heat ray. Yes you have to get close but they have two shots that can be hitting on 2s that are ap-4, wound on 3s and auto kill them in half range and in combat they have ap-2 and 3 damage — and again can be hitting on twos with the triarch strat. They're also fairly resilient against eradicators as far as vehicles go with quantum shielding and 12 wounds. For their points cost I think it's a pretty good deal.

Stalker is great. I would recommend the heavy gauss cannon though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cynista wrote:
I like the idea of regular destroyers being tanky, heavy support firebase units. The execution is just really underwhelming

If they were 60 points and were harder to kill (T6? 4 wounds? 2+sv?) and their firepower was better, I'm all for it. Right now they're about 15 points overcosted

I would say they should be core too. Not being able to my will be done them just kills them.

Destroyers are now good at killing gravis but that's about it. Pretty terrible at everything else. Feels like a specialist unit, whereas in 8th they were a generalist.

Triarch stalkers are solid overall but their offensive output is very low per point; eradicators for example put out 3x the damage per point. You're paying a *lot* for the QS and the ability to let your army reroll 1s.

Sounds like I need to do a video on Destroyers?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Destroyers are now good at killing gravis but that's about it. Pretty terrible at everything else. Feels like a specialist unit, whereas in 8th they were a generalist.

Triarch stalkers are solid overall but their offensive output is very low per point; eradicators for example put out 3x the damage per point. You're paying a *lot* for the QS and the ability to let your army reroll 1s.

I wouldn't take an army of stalkers but one keeps finding it's way into my lists. With gauss for 150pts you have a unit that can shoot (and whose profile is perfect for killing primaries including gravis), army wide buff, and some CC while on a durable platform.

Gauss or the heat ray also offers a weapon profile lacking for the army.

Yeah, I think one makes sense in a lot of armies, more than that...usually not.

Alright question for everyone, involves a list so I'm spoilering that.




That's my core... leaves me with 865 points after some shieldveins.

Here's my plan to add some harder punch:



Now my question is, what dynasty to make the patrol?

Szerakhan - RR 1 wound is 10/10 on ccb and LHD, but the real winner is the 4+ deny strat.

Custom 1: Reroll wound + 3" range to guns (compliments the fire support)

Custom 2: obsec + premove (grants me protocols which... are hard to value, and unlocks MWBD for tomb blades)

Thoughts?

I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

weaver9 wrote:
Alright question for everyone, involves a list so I'm spoilering that.

Spoiler:

Outrider - obsec + 6"
Chrono x2
Scarabs x8
Scarabs x8
Wraiths x6
Tomb blades x9 (gauss)
Tomb blades x9 (beamers)

That's my core... leaves me with 865 points after some shieldveins.

Here's my plan to add some harder punch:

Spoiler:

Patrol
CCB - Voltaic
Immortals
Nightbringer
LHD x2
LHD x2

Now my question is, what dynasty to make the patrol?

Szerakhan - RR 1 wound is 10/10 on ccb and LHD, but the real winner is the 4+ deny strat.

Custom 1: Reroll wound + 3" range to guns (compliments the fire support)

Custom 2: obsec + premove (grants me protocols which... are hard to value, and unlocks MWBD for tomb blades)

Thoughts?

I think that if you're looking to split dynasties, you would be well served to shuffle around some of those units. you have a lot of units you've cut off from MWBD, and I wouldn't count on immortals sticking around, particularly in a detachment with no defensive support. You might be able to squeeze more value out if you swapped a technomancer with a node in for one of the chronomancers in the outrider detatchment, and add an overlord. There's a ton of canoptek in there, and that would give further support if you wanted to add a tomb spyder (which is very much worth its points, with two full units of scarabs). Particularly with a spider or two, you gain the option to deny anyway.

What are the top three units for Necrons 9th edition? Thank you.

BillyN831 wrote:
What are the top three units for Necrons 9th edition? Thank you.

Maybe I'm a bit old school: Wraiths (still, as fast and durable in cc), Warriors, CCB.
In view of the new units, I'd consider Skorpekh destroyers, Doomstalkers, and *mancers.

quick question: Do you need to spend CP and use the Overwatch strat in order to actual use Sentinal Construct ability for the Domestalker?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

I agree. 140 points for a couple of melta shots feels quite steep (Eradicators are 120 for 6 shots) but the re-roll 1s and the close combat ability, plus the general durability of the Stalker means I always seem to gravitate towards one in my lists. Right now my anti-tank is looking like 2 Doomstalkers and a Triarch Stalker, with the Lokhust Destroyers sadly relegated to the sidelines. I just think 55 points is too steep for what they offer now.

Slipspace wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

I agree. 140 points for a couple of melta shots feels quite steep (Eradicators are 120 for 6 shots) but the re-roll 1s and the close combat ability, plus the general durability of the Stalker means I always seem to gravitate towards one in my lists. Right now my anti-tank is looking like 2 Doomstalkers and a Triarch Stalker, with the Lokhust Destroyers sadly relegated to the sidelines. I just think 55 points is too steep for what they offer now.

Two Doomstalkers and one Triarch Stalkers seem to be reasonable.
But I'm still looking at three Doom Scythes to quickly remove the biggest threats asap.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

I agree. 140 points for a couple of melta shots feels quite steep (Eradicators are 120 for 6 shots) but the re-roll 1s and the close combat ability, plus the general durability of the Stalker means I always seem to gravitate towards one in my lists. Right now my anti-tank is looking like 2 Doomstalkers and a Triarch Stalker, with the Lokhust Destroyers sadly relegated to the sidelines. I just think 55 points is too steep for what they offer now.

Two Doomstalkers and one Triarch Stalkers seem to be reasonable.
But I'm still looking at three Doom Scythes to quickly remove the biggest threats asap.

How do we actually fit 3 flyers into a list now? There's no detachment allows for 3, unless I'm mistaken, so that kinda dictates you bring 2 detachments....

 wuestenfux wrote:
In view of list building, are you using the new GW app and the possibility to access the codex within the app.
Battlescribe seems a bit lacking behind with the codex update.

There is a way to get the new Necron stuff into BS. If you check out the BS Reddit there's a post describing how to do it. Basically, you can download the latest files direct from GitHub and upload them into the correct location on your device.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

I agree. 140 points for a couple of melta shots feels quite steep (Eradicators are 120 for 6 shots) but the re-roll 1s and the close combat ability, plus the general durability of the Stalker means I always seem to gravitate towards one in my lists. Right now my anti-tank is looking like 2 Doomstalkers and a Triarch Stalker, with the Lokhust Destroyers sadly relegated to the sidelines. I just think 55 points is too steep for what they offer now.

Two Doomstalkers and one Triarch Stalkers seem to be reasonable.
But I'm still looking at three Doom Scythes to quickly remove the biggest threats asap.

Yeah, the stalker getting a big buff for its melee, and being able to use the heat ray in melee makes it a really, really strong threat to screens, and to tanks. I've gone ahead and re-painted mine in preparation.

Tomb Blades seem really great now as they benefit so much from being Core. A Technomancer with Canoptek Cloak and Hypermaterial Ablator following them around can take them to a 2+ Sv and res one per turn. MWBD, Lords Will, Relentless March, Adaptive Strategy are all nice too, and even Szeras augments if he's around.


On a less sensible note I think a Rad-wreathed + Interplanetary Invaders could be amusing for a vehicle heavy list - ram people, then if they don't fall back you can shoot into combat while they're -1 toughness.

The only way youre having 3 planes now is with 2 detachments.
Not sure if i'd want to do that.

Is the airwing detachment still a thing? How many CP does it cost?

Nope its gone.
They dont want people spamming planes.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Is the airwing detachment still a thing? How many CP does it cost?

The detachments

patrol, battalion, brigade, vanguard, spearhead, outrider

allow 0-2 flyers.

The detachments

supreme command, super-heavy, super-heavy aux, fortification

allow no flyers.

The detachment

aux support detachment (2 CP)

can be (among others) a single flyers.

So if you want to play 3 flyers, you take a detachment as above and an aux. support detachment. It will cost you 2 CP. Not a bad deal for a 3rd Doom Scythe.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I do think one stalker is kinda needed in most lists.
Heatray is a good gun and anything it doesnt kill just got easier to kill. And its durable enough to be pretty difficult to take down cheaply.

I agree. 140 points for a couple of melta shots feels quite steep (Eradicators are 120 for 6 shots) but the re-roll 1s and the close combat ability, plus the general durability of the Stalker means I always seem to gravitate towards one in my lists. Right now my anti-tank is looking like 2 Doomstalkers and a Triarch Stalker, with the Lokhust Destroyers sadly relegated to the sidelines. I just think 55 points is too steep for what they offer now.

Two Doomstalkers and one Triarch Stalkers seem to be reasonable.
But I'm still looking at three Doom Scythes to quickly remove the biggest threats asap.

Yeah, the stalker getting a big buff for its melee, and being able to use the heat ray in melee makes it a really, really strong threat to screens, and to tanks. I've gone ahead and re-painted mine in preparation.

I know the heavy gauss is more expensive but it seems auto include to me. The flamer? Who cares. It might kill a few chaff a turn but that is useless. 2 Shot melta vs 6 shot guass with better range and still multi damage - Gauss gonna outperform.

It also seems what the crons really lack is a medium weapons. Lots of str 10 ap-5 d6 damage or better - lots of str 5 ap-2 1 damage. What you need is a nice medium/ anti heavy infantry weapon or all purpose weapon. Which if you really consider it - the stalker is shooting a unit to buff your army against it - what except a t8 target does a stalker not get returns shooting?

If you are already going with double patrol because you want to run more than one dynasty than three flyers is already an option.

I’m not sure about this as there are a lot of ways to spend CP that add a lot of force multipliers in game, but I can still see reasons to run either 2 patrols or a patrol and another detachment

If I find myself using 2 detachments anyway, I may bring multiple planes, but loosing the Air Wing has basically disuaded me from bringing more than 2

Question becomes, which 2? 2 Night, 2 Doom, one of each?

either that or I just accept I need to run 2 detachments, but I am really trying to avoid paying the tax units more than once

My issue with the gauss on the stalker is its D3D.
Its not strong enough to reliably kill big models
Its not enough shots to clear chaff
And the D3D will commonly "waste shots" against 2-3W low toughness models.

If that cannon was 2D, or more expensive but 3D, i'd take it over the heatray in a heartbeat.
I hate D3D and i wish they'd stop giving weapons that profile.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Tomb Blades seem really great now as they benefit so much from being Core. A Technomancer with Canoptek Cloak and Hypermaterial Ablator following them around can take them to a 2+ Sv and res one per turn. MWBD, Lords Will, Relentless March, Adaptive Strategy are all nice too, and even Szeras augments if he's around.

And with veil of darkness he can teleport himself and a unit of tomb blades.