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I have been reading some fluff on the Alpha legion since recently discovering them. I saw an image of a marine with a very gothic looking helmet, an amazing shade of blue-green on his power armor, and an epic emblem of a hydra. I know for some of you that would probably have spelled Alpha Legion immediately, but I need to do some research!
I have an army of Space Wolves pre-primaris, and so I have some bits. I see I can order some cool heads on forgeworld. But what is the best base to use for the model as far as torso and legs?
I want to build up to maybe 1800-2000 points of a fluffy list that utilizes cultists, havocs, and marines but avoids much of the daemon engines or Daemons princes. I am very intrigued in the story elements that they could be loyal marines, who knows? So a list that kind of reflects they have limited corruption or daemon-esque taint going on is preferable.
I want the army to be casually competitive with a kind of Beta-strike overall strategy. I understand it won't be optimized to win tournaments, and that's fine. I would still like to give people a run for their money. It seems a great advantage would be the forward operatives stratagem and the -1 to hit trait protecting those havocs.
Some ideas that I have had:
Including a chaos predator for the dakka
Modifying cataphractii terminators into Alpha legion Chaos terminators for that Horus Heresy vibe.
Use jump pack troops for the beta-strike approach
I am a total noobie to Chaos Space Marines. Any advice appreciated!
An army like this can totally work, if you focus on playing to the objectives. You want to load up on your standard Chaos Marines so you have plenty of troops - and give them Rhinos as cheap transport so they can get to those objectives quickly.
You'll also want to get some tougher units to back those Troops up - Plague Marines would be best here, I think, but if that's going too hard into a single God you could also take those Terminators you mentioned for this.
Jump packs are good for counter-attacks when those units get threatened - you might have to resist the temptation to throw them straight in at the first opportunity, hold them back a little and make your opponent commit first. Alternatively - you could use them to tie up your opponent's own Troops and buy yourself some extra time uncontested, but you'd have to be careful that pile-ins and consolidations don't turn this into them getting to you even faster.
A single Predator - even with Rhinos driving around - will be a single juicy target for any and all anti-tank in the opponent's force. Either take two or three, or take some other hefty targets to make sure that something survives long enough to make an impact - this could be a Helbrute, Heldrake or Land Raider.
Lastly - you might want to consider taking a Sorcerer along. Warptime is great for getting units to objectives early too, particularly the slower Termies if you've decided not to deep-strike them.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
I was envisioning a blob or two of 20-30 cultists using forward operatives to tarpit the middle of the table and Tide of Traiters to keep them on the board or weather some of the opponent's alpha strike and then coming back at full strength.
I like using the Jump Pack elites with my SW to drop in with combi plasma. Perhaps some terminators could accomplish the same role? Or I can look into a squad of Chosen, if they can take jump packs.
Interestingly, I do have a Chaos Land Raider. I haven't fielded it much as a SWLR because I have heard they are totally not worth the points.
I have read that Alpha Legion uses the local populace as agents to accomplish their goals. So, cultists seemed like a fitting meat shield.
Oooh, I hadn't thought of cultists - that's a good shout, yes that'd work too.
Far as I know, Chosen can't take jump packs - you're basically looking at either Raptors or Warp Talons, and the latter are stuck with claws only. ...I'm not even sure if Raptors can actually take combi-plasma? If they can, I'd be wary of arming them that way since the kit only carries full plasma guns and pistols, so they might well lose combi-weapons in the future.
It's true that Land Raiders aren't as good as they used to be, it just sprang to mind as a particularly durable vehicle distraction, and one that doubles up as a transport. In a list where transports are useful, the points cost isn't so terrible - think of it as being one Rhino cheaper.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
As an Alpha Legion player I suggest taking squads of Cultists as troops since regular CSM aren't that great, cultists are cheap, and are thematic for AL. With Eradicators running around and the changes to melta weapons, a single Predator isn't worth it. Land Raiders are ridiculously over priced. Using Forward Operatives we can sneak things like Obliterators into a better position to use Endless Cacophony or set up a squad of Berzerkers/Possessed to charge the midfield. Havocs are also great with toughness 5 and don't take a minus to moving and shooting heavy weapons. Teleporting combi plasma/melta Terminators onto the opponent's backfield to mess up tanks is also thematic. Throwing in a squad or two of Raptors could work, but I would probably go with bikes due to higher toughness and possibly getting 3 wounds in the codex update. As for HQs, jump sorcerers are always a good buy, especially when you cast prescience on a unit that uses endless cacophony. A Dark Apostle is great for buffing melee units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 00:11:53
BrianDavion wrote: honestly, not sure I'd wanna start CSMs right now until they get their new codex.
Aye, allbeit if he really is secure he want's the army, then imo he could and should start with finding a unit to make cultists.
Neophytes and skitari heads make for a good combo f.e.
Standard cadians with upgrade heads from 3'rd parties work also well.
Alternativly Anvil industry, Ebay cultists, wargames atlantic, etc.
it's those fodder units which make AL tick in a way.
Then he should focus probably on a bunch of havocs. Differing HQ are also a good option.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 07:22:56
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Thank you for the cultist ideas. I am really in no hurry to get the army table ready, so it will be more of a slow build and hobby idea to get the aesthetic that I am looking for.
Any tips on how to get a nice looking Alpha Legion marine? It seems a bit pricy to get the forge world alpha legion kill team, but they look incredible. It just doesn't seem right to use the standard models with all of the teeth and mutations on them.
Super Ready wrote: You could maybe look at third-party stuff... GW also do "standard" plastic boxes of Mk 3 and Mk 4 Marines, that should make a good starting point.
You're a saint. Those Mk IV bodies and legs were exactly what I was looking for.
I have an Alpha Legion army I made for crusade that tries to look like a loyalist marine force. I also have the HH Alpharius model I use as a deamon prince. I have had so much fun playing the crusade scenarios and devising story hooks as to what is happening and how it is furthering my goals that I don't even care that I have not won a single game with it. I use direct equivalents when possible and appropriate "counts as" when needed such as using centurions as obliterators. If I was going to use cultists I was considering using necromunda gangs or cadians depending on how clean I wanted them to be. I hope you enjoy them as much as I have!
I forgot to add my paint scheme. I basecoated them silver and then am using the turquoise contrast to give the armor a blue green tint. I then paint the shoulders a dark blue. I will try to get pictures later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 15:33:46
I am starting with cultists in mind. How many is too many? I figured I wouldn't run more than a blob of 30, but would I want another gang of 10 or so just in case?
I have been looking at the neophytes with Skitarii heads idea. I love that motif for the "operatives" vibe rather than soldiers or just post apocalyptic marauders.
I snagged a couple sheets of the hydra transfers on ebay and have been contemplating the Forge World heads for that gothic look. I haven't purchased anything from FW before, I am hoping they ship to the U.S. and shipping isn't outrageous.
I'm not familiar with 3rd party bits. I would love a few more suggestion or links to some of their stores.
Edit: OH BrotherJanus, its was YOUR profile avatar that brought me down this rabbit hole to begin with!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/13 21:12:18
3 x10 would probably be a good start.
You either can form a blob , or rely upon 3 x10 squads fro filling up a battalion.
Are you familiar with Anvil industry?
You can create something similar to Cultists with Skitari heads quite cheaply and have a lot more options aswell. Bit pricey and resin though.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I'm creating a similar Alpha Legion army, with a Black Ops/Infiltrator theme. I'm using third party models (specifically the old kit from Anvil Miniatures), a decent number of 30K unit with small conversions (Raptors made from Raven Guard for example), some scratchbuild vehicle (I'm creating a Drop Pod from the Termite Drill) and thematic swamp bases.
Few vehicle, some Dark Mechanicus support, a lot of CSM infantry, a few specialist unit.
Not the most competitive army around (but funnily it seems more competitive in 9th, even if I started collecting it in 8th).
My list include approximately (including what model I'm using):
- 10 Warp Talon - 10 Chosen (the old squad isn't available anymore it seems, the new is more in line with Phobos Primaris model
- Armillus Dinat as Warlord, and I'm still looking for some replica or original Kabuki Alpharius and Omegon (they're out of production). But I will probably buy Alpharius too, when the time is right.
- Contemptor Dreadnough - 10 Havoc (30k Alpha Legion conversion set plus Anvil weapon sprue.
- 5 Melee Chosen - Kharabridis Drop Pod (with a deamonic and heavy conversion of the drill, including a scenic base to pimp up the size appropriately)
- Hellwright
I'm planning to purchase eventually a few Land Raider or other not-exactly demonic vehicle, and eventually some Cultist, even if I was looking more for the elite infantry incursion vibe. And yes, it's an Elite force with potentially no Troops in it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 10:30:11
I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it.
Not Online!!! wrote: 3 x10 would probably be a good start.
You either can form a blob , or rely upon 3 x10 squads fro filling up a battalion.
Are you familiar with Anvil industry?
You can create something similar to Cultists with Skitari heads quite cheaply and have a lot more options as well. Bit pricey and resin though.
Thank you! Anvil is an interesting site. I am a huge fan of GW models though, so I will probably stick with that neophyte skitarii combo. I have some good ideas on conversion and painting, now comes the actual list building so I know how much of what to buy.
It seems like cultists, 30-40, would give a good screen for my back line units that can take advantage of the Alpha Legion trait. Would it work to give them the Slaanesh chaos alignment so some Havocs can use Endless Cacophony? I would consider buying that incredible looking AL Contemptor Dreadnaught. I have a land raider, maybe a couple of predators to go in the list to draw for dakka. I am trying to decide between terminators for teleport strike or Raptors for aerial drop with special weapons.
Pros and cons seem like durability VS mobility here. My goal would be to grab engage on all fronts, and maybe some plainly equipped raptors could be a cheap way to drop in and take an action to score secondaries.
I find that chaincannon havoks marked by slaanesh are amazing at clearing things with endless cacophony. I also use a hellforged contemptor dread so for sure get that model! If you are playing power level I'd go with the terminators. each one can have a combi-melta and a good melee weapon. I use my raptors mainly for mobility and objective grabbing/contesting but I do like having 2 meltaguns and a combi-melta on the champ. Slightly different uses but drop in melta is always fun.
I find that chaincannon havoks marked by slaanesh are amazing at clearing things with endless cacophony. I also use a hellforged contemptor dread so for sure get that model! If you are playing power level I'd go with the terminators. each one can have a combi-melta and a good melee weapon. I use my raptors mainly for mobility and objective grabbing/contesting but I do like having 2 meltaguns and a combi-melta on the champ. Slightly different uses but drop in melta is always fun.
I was imagining Havocs as a kind of devastator squad equivalent, but those chain cannons and the ability to move and shoot without penalty almost make them seem like they want to be advancing up the field behind your front liners.
Do you field multiple detachments and, if so, are they all Alpha Legion? I could see a patrol detachment of DG with plague marines being a tough counter punch to the cultist cannon fodder. I'm not very versed in the multi-detachment list style. I tend to fit everything into one detachment and call it good.
I suppose that you could if you wanted some tough bodies to hold objectives. I make my lists with a fluff goal in mind so I am limiting myself on that basis. I say try out a detachment of DG to send up for midfield objectives and see how you like it.
I am pretty new to posting battlescribe lists. So I hope it looks right. Take a look over what and tell me what you think.
I’ve only got about 1600 points here. I wouldn’t mind making a plan to build up about 2,000. What am I missing that would be worth adding? I stuck with the less daemonic units that seem to pcknthe most punch. I contemplated a rhino with chosen inside equipped with plasma or melta.
I like it. I'd put in a rhino or two to help get foot troops onto objectives. I personally love 2 relics: Mindveil and Hydra's Bite. I have Mindveil on a lord in terminator armor and he does work. Slips around like a ghost carving things up or able to reposition without being hindered by terrain or models. Hydra's Bite is just a good gun I use on my Exalted Champion. For fluff reasons I use mark of Tzeentch on every unit only they don't know it. As far as they are concerned they aren't worshiping any god, just as Tzeetch prefers.
It seems that everyone believes chaos marines are a bad troops choice. When I look at them, they don't seem that much different than my SW grey hunters or a tactical squad.
Is this opinion just based on better options in the codex for power armored mans?
I use chaos marines the same way I use my tacticals. I think for the competitive mindset it's better to take as few and as cheap as you can for troops and max out on your better killing potential from elites and heavy support. To me, cultists break my theme and don't contribute as much as my chaos marines. They die to a still breeze while I have had marines live through fire that would have wiped the softer cultists.
My style with SW has always been to take the min sized squads of bloodclaws or hunters, throw them in a Razorback and forget they are in there for the first couple of turns haha.
I suppose, as marines, this army wouldn't be much different. From a competitive perspective, cultists have a low cost for the footprint they can make on the battlefield, I suppose.
I think I like the concept of the cultist approach, if for no other reason, just to switch up the play style.
Axxion51 wrote: It seems that everyone believes chaos marines are a bad troops choice. When I look at them, they don't seem that much different than my SW grey hunters or a tactical squad.
Is this opinion just based on better options in the codex for power armored mans?
Partly... a lot of those options being stratagems. How this would shake out with a new Chaos Codex, that will no doubt also bump them to 2W, is anyone's guess. But as of right now, they lose out from having to go up against not just 2W Tacticals, but all the Primaris troop options too.
As mentioned, the main reason to take them would be as a flood of cheap models for holding objectives - but you have a cheaper option in Cultists for that.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
There's also the leadership issue too. If I remember correctly loyalist marines are less likely to run in the moral phase due to slightly higher leadership and special rules. With Cultists, their leadership is low, but you expect to handfuls of them and that's ok because you saved a bunch of points to load up on your more scary untis.
l0k1 wrote: There's also the leadership issue too. If I remember correctly loyalist marines are less likely to run in the moral phase due to slightly higher leadership and special rules. With Cultists, their leadership is low, but you expect to handfuls of them and that's ok because you saved a bunch of points to load up on your more scary untis.
Actually there's a whole slew of reasons as to why CSM are worse then cultists, and cultists themselves are really really bad comparatively ( unless you play AL shenanigan list)
Price for return is one.
Stratagem eating.
Morale.
Comparatively to cultists they cost more, bring less W to the table are having the main reason for their increased price (SV) often countered because everyone needs to atm, need buffs via stratagems to gain propper return (an issue a lot of CSM units have)
CSM do work better then cultists in some cases, there's f.e. the RC corsair spam... but even that is centered around a recycling stratagem and requires a very specific list.
ALCSM are however not a too bad option if you intend to go MSU, the -1 to hit against them is worth alot and MSU makes the morale issues go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Axxion51 wrote: I am pretty new to posting battlescribe lists. So I hope it looks right. Take a look over what and tell me what you think.
I’ve only got about 1600 points here. I wouldn’t mind making a plan to build up about 2,000. What am I missing that would be worth adding? I stuck with the less daemonic units that seem to pcknthe most punch. I contemplated a rhino with chosen inside equipped with plasma or melta.
Personally, i'd replace the predator with either a vindicator (t8 and a gun that is more threathening for less pts is sadly basically a no brainer imo, especially on the now smaller tables)
There's also an argument to be made to not equip champions for havocs with the PG in order to gain an ablative body. (i am still favouring AC's and ML but i am old fashioned)
If you intend to go more into durability a DA with ilusion prayer might work wonders, further , remember that AL can have 2 Warlord traits.
As an aside in regards to Plague marines, the harsh truth is that non DG plague marines often are not worse then DG ones, and a cheap 5 man with 3 plasmaguns might make for a nice little annoying squad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 07:45:44
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
First off as an alpha legion player know that you are (potentially) a double agent (can't confirm or deny) fighting for/against the empras fascist regime..
If your reading this you ARE the resistance.
That out of the way welcome aboard. Also I want to point out that pure csm isn't competitive. You want that you'll need to soup in DG OR daemons, or for semi competitive even Tsons.
On your list:
HQs I would suggest equipping these further. AL has some really solid relics and traits and csm characters are too expensive to leave bare IMO. For the terminator lord I would suggest headhunter and vipers bite. Helps with assassinate secondary and dealing with some of the problematic support characters. the second lord is not needed but if you really want to include him I would take a jump pack and consider hydras blade and master of deception.. now that the daemon claws are unreliable.
Troops
Csm are in a weird not great spot. Expensive for their contribution and not overly durable or even useful. However 2w will likely see them worse off then now. Id give my left nut for a grav cannon on these. Or a move away from the codex of girliman restriction. Anyway as it stands I'd recommend msu with hvy bolter and use them to raise flags and occupy space. Alternately cultists are fluffy and cheaper..dont expect too much from either and they'll do OK as a light lifter.
Elites
This is the meat of the army in 9th IMO. Your terminators are a good start but I would recommend going full size.. 9-10 with cbplas and chainaxes, maybe 1 chainfist. At this size they can really be game changing. Conceal, renascent, ambush etc. All these are very potent on such a unit protected by forward bodies for conceal. Better now then oblits due to knowing what guns they're shooting without bringing a mop babysitter. Plasma over melta for multiple reasons. Lernaean termies if you can get them.
Contemptors are great models and had their time in the sun with butcher cannons. Now the unit and the gun has aged and this edition is not friendly to single model mech. Transports maybe excepted. I would suggest swapping out to twin hb and ep blaster on the claw. If you take these be prepared to give erads a reason to exist. That said drawing heat from rhinos or multi wound units could be useful.
Chosen aren't great atm but not bad either so I run a unit. Their main draw is cheaper than terminator plasma with the flex option to embark a rhino or renascent infiltrate. And cool models. This is where I put my spikes. I like to go minimalist on the models, sometimes even loyalist kit. But for chosen, warp talons, Oblits I like the spikey bits.
For other elites I find the cult units to be solid. Rubrics benefit from the PA strats while still gaining AL trait fyi. If going a bit more competitive you can soup in DG plague marines or full squads of Tsons tzaangors and a super daemon prince which is my preference. These make a great supplement to cultists to really flood the board.
Fast attack
The raptors I'm afraid will not do much. I would suggest warp talons if you want jumps. And they will do OK I've used em. But I think we need to see where these land due to all the hyper durable multi wound units floating around lately. Not that warp talons can't contribute but they are prohibitively expensive and not well suited to this meta. Instead I would suggest one of the following.. focusing on elites more for example zerks. Or souping in daemons. Lastly you could bring full sized spawn which I've been advocating since mid 8th. In this case a dark apostle handing out 5++ would be a decent option if not bringing in DG. The rest of this section I would leave on the shelf for now.
Heavy support
Some solid options here although they require support. In your case the havocs are not a bad include. Keep in mind renascent and the flexibility of mechanising these. The Las can be very good with cacophony and prescience/rerolls but know they will compete with the terminators for it. Depends what your facing I guess and having a backup target for that strat is a good idea. Either way lose the plasma guns they won't be worth it.
Lastly the Pred I hate to say is gonna disappoint as a one off. In 3s.. Maybe. But I'd still avoid it in this meta. Rhinos with flexible infantry options would be a better and maybe even a more fluffy include.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 05:26:54
I feel that Cultists even if an important part in Alpha Legion warfare will be nerfed again after the price hike. I think two squad is already more than enough.
Fluff wise, AL use a lot of Chosen, an I love their tactical flexibility. From a competitive standpoint, if you're using different Marks give access to th proper stratagems to different squad based on their load out and you will be ok.
I can't condone a place where abusers and abused are threated the same: it's destined to doom, so there is no reason to participate in it.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 
Tons!
Tons!
Tons!
2,000pts
