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warboss wrote:Just throw them away. You're not pouring pure resin down the drain to be treated and released back into the supply. If you're really worried, just dry them outside even if its cloudy (just for longer) as long as its not raining and don't worry about it. It's resin, not left over U-235.

lord_blackfang wrote:You know the towels are safe when they turn crusty!

Fair enough, I guessed there was a good chance I was being paranoid but I figured I should at least ask about curing them (both the method and the need) before just chucking them, don't want to be incorrectly disposing of hazardous stuff and as I know you've got to be careful with the contaminated water or IPA, I wondered if the same was true for the towels used with that stuff, even if there's only trace amounts involved. I shall dry them out and bin them tomorrow.

Monkeysloth wrote:Here try this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GwPEJ8Lq8

He's got an STL that you can use for calibration that's really popular right now.

Yeah, I ran that a few times yesterday, that's how I ended up at 6s before going back up to 6.5 for the sake of support strength. Happy enough with the results, so while I could probably fine-tune to even smaller intervals, 6.5s will do me for now.

 warboss wrote:

 MDSW wrote:
and 5.5 when using .02 to .03 layers.

What machine and resin are you using? It obviously varies but I use 6.5 @ .03 with Elegoo grey on an original Mars.

I have a Mars and my latest batch was the Siraya Tech Simple smoky black with a touch of Elegoo grey to make it a little more opaque - This is my new favorite resin now! When I was using Elegoo resin I was in the 6-8 second range, just like you.

Paradigm - so glad you are dialed in now - it is a happy feeling!

So, I have encountered an odd error (as this thread has a lot of tech support discussion and is on the exact same model this fella seems to be using I hope this is OK with OP if I ask) and I'd like to know if anyone else has run into it.

I printed up a few Eldar models and they came out gorgeous, but the scale was off as they were much more realistically scaled than GW's Chonky Chonk heads and guns, so I figured I'd run them at 1.1 scale just to match the head height a little better.

Exact same models, exact same supports that just worked beautifully, just hit the scale up button and ran print again.

I got a failure mode whereby the skate printed and the bottom cone sections of the supports printed, but then the print head seemed to get stuck on the bottom of the tray. It was trying and failing to print the same layer over and over again, and rather than lifting up and setting back down as normal the head would only move an imperceptible amount each couple seconds.

It looked like I had about 1 layer worth of resin on the bottom of the FEP when I stopped the print. It seemed to me that the error was more software based than something physical actually happening to the machine, as I was able to manually move the print head up and down just fine, but I literally just ran the exact same file I'd just printed.

Has anyone run into this problem of the printer getting stuck on trying to print 1 layer? All google results seem to be focused primarily on physical adhesion to the plate, physical failures etc.

Wait, you re-scaled and did not set new supports? Maybe you did and did not tell us the whole process, but it is not a good practice to take the STL file with supports and scale it - you should re-scale your project file and then re-do the supports and slice again. Yes, I know it is a longer process, but keeps the supports the size they are supposed to be.

Your print head not moving certainly could be a corrupt file - that has happened to me a few times and iIhad to re-slice a new file.

 MDSW wrote:
Wait, you re-scaled and did not set new supports? Maybe you did and did not tell us the whole process, but it is not a good practice to take the STL file with supports and scale it - you should re-scale your project file and then re-do the supports and slice again. Yes, I know it is a longer process, but keeps the supports the size they are supposed to be.

Your print head not moving certainly could be a corrupt file - that has happened to me a few times and iIhad to re-slice a new file.

Huh. Interesting. You know, when I initially ran the models, the reason they came out small was it was the first time I'd imported a presupported model, and I had my Dire Avenger which wasn't presupported on the platform and I imported the Dark Reaper and went "oh god, he's huge, gotta scale him down a bit" ....and of course it turned out the reason he looked big was because he was lifted up 5mm and tilted 30degrees

So I actually was trying to print them at the original intended size when the print failed. My next plan for troubleshooting was to try and print just a single model that I supported manually myself, without using Chitubox and saving as STL. I thought maybe importing the model direct into photon workshop with all the supports already in place was what messed up the slice (even though that's exactly what I did before when it printed just fine).

 MDSW wrote:
Wait, you re-scaled and did not set new supports? Maybe you did and did not tell us the whole process, but it is not a good practice to take the STL file with supports and scale it - you should re-scale your project file and then re-do the supports and slice again. Yes, I know it is a longer process, but keeps the supports the size they are supposed to be.

Your print head not moving certainly could be a corrupt file - that has happened to me a few times and iIhad to re-slice a new file.

Yes and no. If you shrink a model then typically yes (not always but it depends on the amount of shrinkage). If you enlarge it like he said (110% scale) then it should be fine and at worst will just make the model more difficult to trim. It's only a problem when people shrink presupported models saved as STLs using easy to remove tiny supports and they shrink it below what their printer/resin/settings can realistically handle. The only other thing to remember is to make sure that the model is completely on the build plate and not lifted up a tiny bit when you change the size. A simple check on the first layer in the chitubox window slicer preview accomplishes that.

 warboss wrote:

 MDSW wrote:
Wait, you re-scaled and did not set new supports? Maybe you did and did not tell us the whole process, but it is not a good practice to take the STL file with supports and scale it - you should re-scale your project file and then re-do the supports and slice again. Yes, I know it is a longer process, but keeps the supports the size they are supposed to be.

Your print head not moving certainly could be a corrupt file - that has happened to me a few times and iIhad to re-slice a new file.

Yes and no. If you shrink a model then typically yes (not always but it depends on the amount of shrinkage). If you enlarge it like he said (110% scale) then it should be fine and at worst will just make the model more difficult to trim. It's only a problem when people shrink presupported models saved as STLs using easy to remove tiny supports and they shrink it below what their printer/resin/settings can realistically handle. The only other thing to remember is to make sure that the model is completely on the build plate and not lifted up a tiny bit when you change the size. A simple check on the first layer in the chitubox window slicer preview accomplishes that.

The skate did adhere to the build plate just fine so I don't believe that was the problem. Also, layer 1 definitely had all the skates, I saw the first layer print.

idk. Needs more troubleshooting. Troubleshooting takes a long time given the amount of cleaning, filtering, resetting, recalibrating and resupporting you have to do when you get a failure. I just wanted to check if this was a known error form with resin printers with a known mistake that causes it.

I'm unsure what you mean by skates. Could you elaborate as I'm not familiar with the term in 3d printing.

 warboss wrote:
I'm unsure what you mean by skates. Could you elaborate as I'm not familiar with the term in 3d printing.

Oh, the support base that adheres the model to the build plate. it was referred to as a "skate" in several of the videos and articles I was reading while researching for the thing.

Ah, ok thanks. Since you were printing eldar, I figured I'd ask since those Harlequins could be using wraithbone roller skates or something.

Is there a problem with having too many supports, other than it being a pain to pop the model off them?

 Flinty wrote:
Is there a problem with having too many supports, other than it being a pain to pop the model off them?

They can mar the surface if the connections go deep even if you do a good job cleaning up. It depends on the number and size of them.

I'm trying a tank print and the tracks are leading to massive numbers 9f supports. They are pretty much all on the underside of the model though, so I think I'll run with it and see how it goes.

While we're talking presupports, they're currently being a real pain for me. Manual supports, I think I've got the hang of, I ran a large and multi-part print earlier and it came out perfect (I did massively oversupport one part, but deliberately so as it's hidden beneath a cloak anyway), but the Patreon presupported minis are just not working. No errors in PFV, the exposure time is dialed in and working great otherwise, the bed is level and regular supports are doing their job. I don't think it's too few supports, as the lower areas are pretty darn covered, so my current thinking is the size being the issue.

I'm wondering if the contact size/depth is just too small, and if so, whether printing at a lower layer height might help? My thinking is that it'd spread the weight and the force of lifting over more layers, and allow the supports to penetrate more layers into the actual model, which might help them hold on better. Even adding manual supports where I can amongst the presuppports didn't do it, they're just repeatedly failing even on models with very small cross-sections.

If I do drop the layer height, say to 0.03, what's a good factor to drop the exposure by? If I'm at 6.5s now, might5 be a good starting point?

Thanks again for all the help, folks. Much appreciated, and doing a great deal to stop me tearing my hair out as I come to love/hate this machine!

I think 5.5 to 6 for .03, but that does depend on the resin. If you are using a semi-translucent, you should be good, but a very opaque or dark resin does need that extra second or so.

I cannot stand pre-supported minis - they are useless to me, since I do a lot of re-positioning, scaling, remodeling, etc. If they work for anyone, great! But, not for me.

I have no problem getting my stl all scaled and positioned and then using my ChiTuBox auto-support function. YOU MUST HAVE YOUR DEFAULTS SET UP PROPERLY!! This includes support density, bottom platform shape, top shape, etc. Below are the shots of what I use. These can certainly be modified better, but work good for me. My usual method is to create all supports in Light and then place a number of strategic medium supports. If there are a lot of details I might pump up the density to 70-75%

Thanks for those screengrabs, I shall give them a go as having just spent half an hour supporting individual strands of fur on a Dire Wolf mini, Autosupports have never seemed more tempting. I have seen so much advice that says they're bad/wrong/dangerous ect, but on the other hand what I've seen of your prints looks great, so that's evidence to the contrary.

You will also learn to position the mini right up front in the best position for supports - sometimes leaning backwards at a 45 degree angle is not the best position due to many overhangs, etc.

It's been one week with the Photon, so seems like a good time for some progress updates and a general summary of the experience so far. Overall, I'm loving this thing as much as it frustrates me, because when it works, it works and I'm thrilled with the quality I'm getting from it, after months of painting FDM minis for DnD games it's great to not be constantly fighting layer lines and stringing, it's really putting the fun back into painting for me

Here's a shot of the successful prints so far, some of the paint is still WIP (especially the Star Wars minis) but it's a good summary.


My proudest achievement among the lot is the large mini at the back, a fan sculpt of The Laughing Hand, a monstrous villain from Critical Role's second campaign. Manually supported and printed perfect on the first attempt, definitely a milestone and proof of what the Photon can do. A blast to paint as well, lots of fun texture work to be done that just wasn't an option on FDM prints.




On the technical side of things, I think I'm making at least some progress. My eye for manual supports and orientation is getting better, and I'm setting up minis to print far quicker than I was when I began, a workflow has definitely fallen into place. The failures have mostly come with either autosupports or presupports, so while that's annoying as I have a bunch of presupported minis I'd love to just churn out, it's at least proving my understanding of the process is getting better. I think my resin is nicely dialled in at around 6.5s exposure, as with that setting the supports are mostly holding up and the detail is nice and crisp. Haven't had a print fall off the build plate since day 2, so likewise I think my levelling and bottom settings are good. On a note that's both positive and negative, I'm getting far faster at cleanup after failures... Practice makes perfect, and there's been a lot of it!

Next steps: I plan to try some other presupports, to see if it's just this one Patreon that's not playing nice with my resin or whether it's a more general issue where non-default supports just aren't going to work. I'm also tempted to grab a half litre of Elegoo's water washable resin, as the data out there for that is a lot more complete than for the NOVA3D stuff. Not sure I'm ready to dive into the mess of regular IPA cleaning yet, though I shall have to try down the line, I guess.

Onwards and upwards!

 warboss wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Is there a problem with having too many supports, other than it being a pain to pop the model off them?

They can mar the surface if the connections go deep even if you do a good job cleaning up. It depends on the number and size of them.

I've been meaning to ask about this. How the heck does "depth" of support connections do anything? It's all the same resin, it's either cured or it isn't. Apart from the support needle poking out the other side of the sculpt, there can be no physical difference between a 0.1mm depth and a 1 kilometer depth.

So, got a very technical one for y'all today. The short version is that my Photon doesn't seem to be acknowledging the Lift Speed input in Chitubox and I have no idea why.

In an attempt to get presupports working, I dropped the lift speed to first 40mm/min then to 35 mm/min and each time, the projected print time was longer, which makes perfect sense. However, on the printer, it came out with a projected time significantly quicker, and checking the print settings on the Photon itself, it gave the Rising Speed (which I assume is lift speed) at 3mm/s, so a whopping 180mm/min if I'm not a complete idiot at maths... And now I think about it, the whirring noise I get when the plate raises and lowers is definitely not as long as the 5s or so it should be with a the default listed speed on the Photon of 65mm/min, let alone my reduced times...


Has anyone else encountered this, or does anyone know of a fix or workaround? Or is there some kind of maths fail going on here and my numbers are entirely off? I think the apparently absurdly high lift speed might be why I've had so many issues with lighter supports, as the peel forces are just way higher than expected.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Is there a problem with having too many supports, other than it being a pain to pop the model off them?

They can mar the surface if the connections go deep even if you do a good job cleaning up. It depends on the number and size of them.

I've been meaning to ask about this. How the heck does "depth" of support connections do anything? It's all the same resin, it's either cured or it isn't. Apart from the support needle poking out the other side of the sculpt, there can be no physical difference between a 0.1mm depth and a 1 kilometer depth.

From what I understand, it matters if the contact point is not even. For example, with a spherical contact point, the depth of the contact will determine how much of the sphere will be "outside" of the print.

Yeah, the optimal setting is the conical point of the support to barely touch the mini at the apex of the cone so it does not leave a huge mark when removed. If it extends too far it will not break off clean. Sure, you can use the clippers to clip off every support clean, but that kind of defeats the purpose of easy to remove supports.

Well, I think it's finally clicked for me. My theory is that the particular model I was trying to print was just somehow corrupted, because every other mini I've tried to run so far has worked beautifully. Even with multiple failed print jobs, one of them being my hilarious 'height of folly" attempt to run 10 autosupported Gretchins at once burning what was basically a rectangle of resin the size of my build plate x 1/2" height, I've gone through about 9/10ths of my first half liter of resin and gotten 42 miniatures out of it. Pretty damn good for 30 bucks of goo!

Definitely better than my haul! I think I'm 3/4 of my first liter in and have under 30 useable man-sized objects (most of them MoW ships, Epic tanks and the like). I did chuck out probably more than 1/2" vat depth of resin on my very first print that had too much ambient sunlight and the resin was turning into muck before I even turned anything on.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Definitely better than my haul! I think I'm 3/4 of my first liter in and have under 30 useable man-sized objects (most of them MoW ships, Epic tanks and the like). I did chuck out probably more than 1/2" vat depth of resin on my very first print that had too much ambient sunlight and the resin was turning into muck before I even turned anything on.

ah, that suuuuucks - yeah, I've been keeping my printer tucked into a pretty low-light room so we don't smell it (not that the eco resin smells really at all with the cover on) so my biggest waste was the hubris-brick of what turned out to be gretchin-butts before it fell off the build plate.

I successfully printed 10 gretchin from ankle to butt, because their feet were jammed into the autosupport-generated base (didn't realize you had to move them up 5mm on the Z axis to avoid that yet!) and my settings were the default whatever 3 second exposure time so eventually with the weight of the thing it just peeled off.