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Wraith Aspects is what I'm after, or at least something totally new but I expect Dark Reapers and Maugan Ra next.

Well Jain Zar and the new Banshees look amazing.
So I have no worries about the other Aspects looking great in plastic.
GW just need to freaking do it.
Necrons have just had their huge update, now Eldar need one.
For the past decade they have needed it.

kryczek wrote:
Wraith Aspects is what I'm after, or at least something totally new but I expect Dark Reapers and Maugan Ra next.

I really hope a Wraith Aspect doesn't happen, actually. It'd be a fluff paradox - Wraith units are essentially the last gasp, desperate measures approach to making the dead fight again - whereas the various Aspect shrines are supposed to be a Path for the living to embark on, but hopefully drop when they choose another Path. It's a contradiction for Wraiths to be presented as such a choice.

About the only way I could see this working, is if it's a Ynnari-specific unit. If that were the case, I'd be all for it.

I really don't understand what GWs plan is for Ynnari.
They made a big thing about it, released a load of characters, then um I dont know.

The new Banshees have unmasked alternate Ynnari heads, so I guess they are still doing something with it.

They should do a proper Ynnari codex supplement.
And that would be a good reason to finish updating the Aspect Warriors.
As they would be able to be played in two different army lists.

 dan2026 wrote:
I really don't understand what GWs plan is for Ynnari.
They made a big thing about it, released a load of characters, then um I dont know.

The new Banshees have unmasked alternate Ynnari heads, so I guess they are still doing something with it.

They should do a proper Ynnari codex supplement.
And that would be a good reason to finish updating the Aspect Warriors.
As they would be able to be played in two different army lists.

Ynnari should just get folded into the CWE codex. Make Ynnari a craftworld trait, and that's it. No HQ requirement (eg. you can be ynnari using just a normal farseer if you want) and all CWE units can be fielded with them.

There is nothing about Ynnari anymore which is any more special or unique than any other craftworld trait. Theirs is worse than most.

I kinda wish Ynnari and Harlequins were just folded into CWE

So many of you have heard me say this before- I say it in every conversation that involves Ynarri, but I looked back and I haven't said it in this one yet. So here goes: The best way to release a Ynarri dex is to fill it up with Corsair and Exodite Reborn units. Then WD can release mini-dexes for fielding Corsair stand-alones and Exodite stand-alones.

This way CWE and DE players don't have to worry about Ynarri punking our units. With Lelith on the way, and it's already in the fluff that she works with Ynarri, I can't express how worried I am that GW is going to take her from us. I feared the same about JZ and the Banshees; it didn't happen in 8th, but that doesn't mean we're out of the woods yet. I don't want Eldar to become all one faction. Having the option to play that way is great, but I want each of the subfactions to maintain their identities so that mono DE or mono CWE still feel "right". The Ynarri + Corsair + Exodite solution is elegant because it gives us something many Aeldari players of all stripes have actually wanted for nine editions, without destroying the thing they gave us even though no one ever asked for it. Best of all, it won't destroy the 2.5 awesome factions we already have, which many of us love.

Now that the soap box goes away, I can talk about a few other posts in this thread. I'm not a master Eldar player, but I think there are some misunderstandings.

Back at the end of page 1, SeamusDrake said that it's time Ynarri players didn't have to choose between CWE, DE and Harlies. As I understand it, Ynarri players can already do this- you can include Reborns of any stripe in the same Ynarri detachment.

At the end of page 2, Jeff White says he lost faith in GW when CWE and DE became allies. I'm not sure that's what actually happened; I think that the Ynarri showed up and some DE and some CWE decided to ally with them; those who did, by necessity, allied with each other to further the Ynarri agenda.

I could be wrong; I may also have misinterpreted the two posters I've quoted.

 dan2026 wrote:
As we know a good 75% of the Eldar model range is old, very old.
How old you ask? Well....

Most of the Aspect Warriors apart from Dire Avengers and Howling Banshees, were released in metal way back in 2006.
14 years old. A hell of a long time. Then were then converted to resin. But still, the same models.

But wait, it gets worse. Warp Spiders, the Avatar and all of the Phoenix Lords (aprat from Jain Zar) were released in metal back in 1994.
Yep thats right. These models haven't been updated for 26 years!

I have to wonder what on earth GW plans to do with this army.
I can't really undersatnd why they would let parts of it go almost 30 years without an update.

We had one Phoenix Lord and one Aspect Warrior squad updated randomly last year.
Then nothing. At least so far.
If this is the pace GW is updating the Eldar at, I will be an old man before they finish.

Any thoughts, predictions, insight?
Will Eldar get a big update? Will they be quietly removed from the game at some point?
Or will they languish with 30 year old models with no update?

The future of the Eldar model range is Artel W. at this point.

PenitentJake wrote:


Back at the end of page 1, SeamusDrake said that it's time Ynarri players didn't have to choose between CWE, DE and Harlies. As I understand it, Ynarri players can already do this- you can include Reborns of any stripe in the same Ynarri detachment.

What? Seamus is here now? Come out you slimely toad and face me like a man dammit!! Its time to settle this once and for all!

Seriously though, that sounds great but I've been advised otherwise - which is why I went with Harlequins instead. Was this changed in Phoenix Rising?

PenitentJake wrote:
So many of you have heard me say this before- I say it in every conversation that involves Ynarri, but I looked back and I haven't said it in this one yet. So here goes: The best way to release a Ynarri dex is to fill it up with Corsair and Exodite Reborn units. Then WD can release mini-dexes for fielding Corsair stand-alones and Exodite stand-alones.

I honestly think that's a terrible idea. That's two more eldar model lines when they haven't even updated or finished Craftworlds or Dark. That's going to make the situation worse, not better.
More disjointed, more hodgepodge, more problems with external and internal balance, and doesn't actually fix anything for anyone who already has armies or wants to start one.

PenitentJake wrote:
Back at the end of page 1, SeamusDrake said that it's time Ynarri players didn't have to choose between CWE, DE and Harlies. As I understand it, Ynarri players can already do this- you can include Reborns of any stripe in the same Ynarri detachment.

Technically, you're correct. But you lose so much from being either pure CWE or DE, that the Ynarri rules just plain don't make up for. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that Harlies don't actually lose any of their rules by becoming Ynnari - but having to take the special characters is still a whopping points tax that they function just fine without.

 Super Ready wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Back at the end of page 1, SeamusDrake said that it's time Ynarri players didn't have to choose between CWE, DE and Harlies. As I understand it, Ynarri players can already do this- you can include Reborns of any stripe in the same Ynarri detachment.

Technically, you're correct. But you lose so much from being either pure CWE or DE, that the Ynarri rules just plain don't make up for. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that Harlies don't actually lose any of their rules by becoming Ynnari - but having to take the special characters is still a whopping points tax that they function just fine without.

So for example, we can currently have a patrol detachment that contains a Shadowseer, Kabalites and a Warwalker? Is that legal?

Yeh. One way to make ynnari worth while and useable is to have good rules baked into the individual data sheets and not rely on army traits/Pseudo doctrines/ Psychic.

Little things like not being able to take exarch powers from PA... Like why?

 Argive wrote:
Yeh. One way to make ynnari worth while and useable is to have good rules baked into the individual data sheets and not rely on army traits/Pseudo doctrines/ Psychic.

Little things like not being able to take exarch powers from PA... Like why?

not to mention the ONE guy who I want to have ynari powers (the solitaire) banned XD.

My prediction is either that GW will take a huge risk and update massively the Eldar model range by remaking pretty much all their units except maybe some of their tanks, walkers and wraith units.

The safer option on the short term is to punt the problem ahead by remaking a few units here and their, while adding a new thing like a new special character and bloating further the model line of the eldars and letting people take harder decisions in 5-10 years.

The third option is basically making a big reboot a la Primaris Marines of the Craftworld brand, using the Ynnari storyline, remaking a lot of units and replacing many others.

SamusDrake wrote:
So for example, we can currently have a patrol detachment that contains a Shadowseer, Kabalites and a Warwalker? Is that legal?

Yep. There are a few units that are restricted (non-Ynnari special characters, the Avatar, Solitaires) but the three you mention are good to go.
Why you'd do this is beyond me, though. The key thing to bear in mind is that no CWE/DE units get access to their original Codex's army-wide rule or stratagems. They also don't benefit from the Harlequins' rules.
All you're achieving is taking units that don't synergise together, barring with the lackluster Ynnari rules, at a potentially slightly cheaper CP cost than if you had an actual CWE/DE detachment alongside them.

epronovost wrote:
My prediction is either that GW will take a huge risk and update massively the Eldar model range by remaking pretty much all their units except maybe some of their tanks, walkers and wraith units.

The safer option on the short term is to punt the problem ahead by remaking a few units here and their, while adding a new thing like a new special character and bloating further the model line of the eldars and letting people take harder decisions in 5-10 years.

The third option is basically making a big reboot a la Primaris Marines of the Craftworld brand, using the Ynnari storyline, remaking a lot of units and replacing many others.

At this stage I just feel CWE have had it, and walking ever so slowly, on their feeble shaky legs, gently pulled along the chain out towards the back of the barn while GW holding a shovel in the right hand saying softly... "Its okey.. it wont hurt... we had a good run.. hush now...It will be over quickly"

epronovost wrote:
My prediction is either that GW will take a huge risk and update massively the Eldar model range by remaking pretty much all their units except maybe some of their tanks, walkers and wraith units.

The safer option on the short term is to punt the problem ahead by remaking a few units here and their, while adding a new thing like a new special character and bloating further the model line of the eldars and letting people take harder decisions in 5-10 years.

The third option is basically making a big reboot a la Primaris Marines of the Craftworld brand, using the Ynnari storyline, remaking a lot of units and replacing many others.

I think the 'big reboot' is a far bigger risk than a massive update. The update would actually make people happy, while replacing units will cause issues.

Honestly, they went for the big update on Necrons, and eldar, at least craftworld eldar, are far more popular.

I can see Ynanri being a supplement. Not that its something I wish to happen.. but I have an odd feeling GW can smell the $$$

The irony would be if it just makes all the CWE / DE/ Harlie units much better than on their own so you will just see ynanri everywhere. I dont think anyone wants to go back to soulburst days....

I think one of the worse designs is that you loose all the abilities of parent codex if you go ynnari. The tax is that you have take a named character as your warlord which IMO should be enough for whatever slight buff or sidegrade you may get as ynnari.

Does ynnari need to be better than DE/ CWE / Harlies on their own ? Hell no..

But does GW think so in order o sell you the supplament book... I think so..

ALSO - I cna totaly see a DBZ "Fuuusiiiioooon" between the AOK and the Yncarne.... You heard it here first

What's crazy is that the eldar models/imagery has amazing aesthetic appeal, now combine that with current plastic technology. They could make some seriously good models.

i want a massive boost for Eldar that makes their individual warriors deadly, and take out the horrible internal balance where players end up spamming one or two things while the rest of the army languishes into obscurity.

Warlocks need to be improved, although I'd prefer them to be unit leader upgrades for Guardians. Also then have a Seer Council unit return that contains farseers and warlocks.
Exarchs are more than just sgts and should be moved to a separate slot (that don't take up a detachment slot if you include an appropriate aspect unit). make them scary...they should be. That ship has sailed though with the banshee kit, so maybe Great Exarchs become a thing?
Of course, the aspects themselves need better rules to go along with new models. T3 1W is a staple that should remain, but their output needs to be worthy of their elite status.
Phoenix Lords are a tough one....they need to be almost primarch level, but can't be (although Jain Zar having 4 attacks is just damn laughable). I'd love to see the sculpts for these bad boys though.
And of course, a new Avatar is a must. Imagine a being immune to melta in the current meta....bring that back.

The vehicles and wraith constructs are totally fine as is, and the Guardians/bikes honestly don't need upgrading at this time. Drop Storm Guardians, they really just don't have a role in an eldar force.
I'd also like to see a wraith construct character.
I'd probably move rangers out of Troops and bring Scorpions as the Infiltrating Troop option. You then don't have them and banshees competing for Elite slots with somewhat similar roles.

It would be a real labour of love but hopefully the designers can pull something off spectacular.

Personally I would like Warlocks to be the Librarian equivalents they were in 2nd Ed. Not the sergeants they have become.

Tygre wrote:
Personally I would like Warlocks to be the Librarian equivalents they were in 2nd Ed. Not the sergeants they have become.

I'd go either way...either stay as sgts, but then actually be part of the unit...or become more like Librarians, and remain individual units. What we have now is just terrible.

Voss wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
So many of you have heard me say this before- I say it in every conversation that involves Ynarri, but I looked back and I haven't said it in this one yet. So here goes: The best way to release a Ynarri dex is to fill it up with Corsair and Exodite Reborn units. Then WD can release mini-dexes for fielding Corsair stand-alones and Exodite stand-alones.

I honestly think that's a terrible idea. That's two more eldar model lines when they haven't even updated or finished Craftworlds or Dark. That's going to make the situation worse, not better.
More disjointed, more hodgepodge, more problems with external and internal balance, and doesn't actually fix anything for anyone who already has armies or wants to start one.

I agree- which is why I would fix CWE and DE before fixing Ynarri.

But when the Ynarri fix does come, I think this way is the best way to do it. And one of the reasons I think it's the best way is because it stops CWE and DE from hemorrhaging units to Ynarri which would prevent CWE and DE from EVER being fixed. I'm actually not 100% sure, but Lelith going Ynarri only might make me angry enough to quit.

 Super Ready wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
So for example, we can currently have a patrol detachment that contains a Shadowseer, Kabalites and a Warwalker? Is that legal?

Yep. There are a few units that are restricted (non-Ynnari special characters, the Avatar, Solitaires) but the three you mention are good to go.
Why you'd do this is beyond me, though. The key thing to bear in mind is that no CWE/DE units get access to their original Codex's army-wide rule or stratagems. They also don't benefit from the Harlequins' rules.
All you're achieving is taking units that don't synergise together, barring with the lackluster Ynnari rules, at a potentially slightly cheaper CP cost than if you had an actual CWE/DE detachment alongside them.

Hang on, since when did this get changed?

It used to be the case that you could have a Ynnari detachment (patrol for example), and in that one patrol you could have kabalite troops and warwalkers and harlequins. But that got changed a long time ago, during the neverending Ynnari nerfs, and you could only run a single army type per ynnari detachment.

So to have kabalite ynnari, you'd need Yvraine + kabalites in one patrol detachment. If you want war walkers as well, you'll have to take Yncarne + war walkers in a separate spearhead detachment.

This is one of the many reasons Ynnari are dead (no pun intended). The detachment and HQ taxes required if you want to run a mixed army, are just extortionate. You are much better off just taking a standard Craftworld and standard Dark Eldar detachments, as you then at least get decent stratagems and legion traits.

Niiru wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
So for example, we can currently have a patrol detachment that contains a Shadowseer, Kabalites and a Warwalker? Is that legal?

Yep. There are a few units that are restricted (non-Ynnari special characters, the Avatar, Solitaires) but the three you mention are good to go.
Why you'd do this is beyond me, though. The key thing to bear in mind is that no CWE/DE units get access to their original Codex's army-wide rule or stratagems. They also don't benefit from the Harlequins' rules.
All you're achieving is taking units that don't synergise together, barring with the lackluster Ynnari rules, at a potentially slightly cheaper CP cost than if you had an actual CWE/DE detachment alongside them.

Hang on, since when did this get changed?

It used to be the case that you could have a Ynnari detachment (patrol for example), and in that one patrol you could have kabalite troops and warwalkers and harlequins. But that got changed a long time ago, during the neverending Ynnari nerfs, and you could only run a single army type per ynnari detachment.

So to have kabalite ynnari, you'd need Yvraine + kabalites in one patrol detachment. If you want war walkers as well, you'll have to take Yncarne + war walkers in a separate spearhead detachment.

This is one of the many reasons Ynnari are dead (no pun intended). The detachment and HQ taxes required if you want to run a mixed army, are just extortionate. You are much better off just taking a standard Craftworld and standard Dark Eldar detachments, as you then at least get decent stratagems and legion traits.

What you are thinking of is the option of using Ynarri characters by attaching them to the units of other types of Eldar. That is still possible, and as others have pointed out, it is somewhat advantageous, because if you do it that way, CWE keep CW traits and Psychic abilities, DE keep obsessions and Harlies keep Masque forms, pivotal roles. But that has only ever been one way to use Ynarri.

The other way is to field Ynarri detachments. This lets you mix all 4 eldar factions in a single detachment, but CWE, DE and Harlies lose all the stuff they get two keep using the other method and gain access to all the Ynarri stuff (which is nowhere near as good).

Both options have ALWAYS been possible. But attaching Ynarri as characters became the default for most people after the big nerf- so much so, apparently, that people have forgotten a) that they can take Ynarri detachments, and b) how it works if they choose to do it.

pretty sure in Matched Play you had to take a detachment that shared the appropriate keywords, and these could not be Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari or Ynnari. Therefore, you had to take a single detachment of either craftworld, harlequins or drukhari and make them Ynnari, but you couldn't combine them. I will check but I'm pretty sure that is the case.

edit: yeah, it's in the rules section for Ynnari. You cannot have mixed Harlie, Drukhari and Craftworlds in the same detachment, but can be in the same army. And this is the problem. If I wanted all 3 I would be forced to take all 3 Ynnari characters, one in harlequin, one in Drukhari and one in Craftworld. It's the main reason people complain about the army.

PenitentJake wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
So for example, we can currently have a patrol detachment that contains a Shadowseer, Kabalites and a Warwalker? Is that legal?

Yep. There are a few units that are restricted (non-Ynnari special characters, the Avatar, Solitaires) but the three you mention are good to go.
Why you'd do this is beyond me, though. The key thing to bear in mind is that no CWE/DE units get access to their original Codex's army-wide rule or stratagems. They also don't benefit from the Harlequins' rules.
All you're achieving is taking units that don't synergise together, barring with the lackluster Ynnari rules, at a potentially slightly cheaper CP cost than if you had an actual CWE/DE detachment alongside them.

Hang on, since when did this get changed?

It used to be the case that you could have a Ynnari detachment (patrol for example), and in that one patrol you could have kabalite troops and warwalkers and harlequins. But that got changed a long time ago, during the neverending Ynnari nerfs, and you could only run a single army type per ynnari detachment.

So to have kabalite ynnari, you'd need Yvraine + kabalites in one patrol detachment. If you want war walkers as well, you'll have to take Yncarne + war walkers in a separate spearhead detachment.

This is one of the many reasons Ynnari are dead (no pun intended). The detachment and HQ taxes required if you want to run a mixed army, are just extortionate. You are much better off just taking a standard Craftworld and standard Dark Eldar detachments, as you then at least get decent stratagems and legion traits.

What you are thinking of is the option of using Ynarri characters by attaching them to the units of other types of Eldar. That is still possible, and as others have pointed out, it is somewhat advantageous, because if you do it that way, CWE keep CW traits and Psychic abilities, DE keep obsessions and Harlies keep Masque forms, pivotal roles. But that has only ever been one way to use Ynarri.

The other way is to field Ynarri detachments. This lets you mix all 4 eldar factions in a single detachment, but CWE, DE and Harlies lose all the stuff they get two keep using the other method and gain access to all the Ynarri stuff (which is nowhere near as good).

Both options have ALWAYS been possible. But attaching Ynarri as characters became the default for most people after the big nerf- so much so, apparently, that people have forgotten a) that they can take Ynarri detachments, and b) how it works if they choose to do it.

No, I was talking about a Ynnari detachment, where the units lose their army rules (battle focus, legion trait) and gain strength from death instead.

In armies like this, unless it's been changed, they have to be single-faction.

"If Yvraine (etc) is included in a <craftworlds>, <harlequins>, or <drukhari> detachment, you can choose ... for that detachment to become a <ynnari> detachment."

It may have been FAQ'd since their 'codex', since all the nerfs I didn't really look into Ynnari anymore.

Ninja Edit: Before I posted this I decided to check the errata, and it turns out it -was- faq'd. Turns out I was indeed wrong, and you can have a mixed Aeldari detachment and make it Ynnari. This changes things a bit, as the reason I gave up on the units I wanted in a list, was because it would have resulted in needing 3x detachments (not worth it). Cutting it down to 2x is much better.

Ynnari are still bad, and the trait is worse than just having any other CWE trait (expert crafters by itself is better than Ynnari), but it's opened up some options for my casual/fluffy lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
pretty sure in Matched Play you had to take a detachment that shared the appropriate keywords, and these could not be Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari or Ynnari. Therefore, you had to take a single detachment of either craftworld, harlequins or drukhari and make them Ynnari, but you couldn't combine them. I will check but I'm pretty sure that is the case.

This is also what I thought, but the FAQ (I'll have to go re-check this now) does actually seem to say Ynnari can ignore the 'battle brothers' rule.

‘Yvraine, the Visarch and/or the Yncarne can be
included in such a Detachment even if a rule states that
every unit in the Detachment must be from the same
faction, and that faction cannot be Aeldari (e.g. the
Battle Brothers matched play rule).’

Where are you seeing this? I'm looking at Phoenix Rising Errata and there is nothing in it regarding Ynnari.

 bullyboy wrote:
Where are you seeing this? I'm looking at Phoenix Rising Errata and there is nothing in it regarding Ynnari.

Ahh no you're right, I was looking at the Ynnari faq, but I forgot they got their rules updated in Phoenix Rising.

Which means I was right in the first place. They did have that ability, but it was removed. They then got it back in an faq. It was then removed AGAIN in phoenix rising.

I can't find anywhere where they got it back again. Possibly because by this point nobody played ynnari and so nobody noticed.

And now I've re-read Phoenix Rising, and I see the confusion... I'm less certain.

I also checked the FAQ and saw now reference to Ynarri. But the FAQ I checked was the Indomitus one, which is 9th. There would have been an 8th ed Phoenix Rising FAQ too, and maybe it's the one that says Ynarri ignore Battle Brothers.

I should also check 9th rules to see if the Battle Brothers rule was modified enough that the issue didn't need to be FAQed for 9th.

Because y'all have me doubting myself now.