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Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

cody.d. wrote:

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

Yeah i can see that as an argument as thats their "business models"

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear. Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

 Argive wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

The what now ?

A novelist wrote a book that used "Space Marine" in the title, GW complained and got it pulled from Amazon. Some commentators questioned whether GW had any right to trademark "Space Marine" (you'll notice they've started listing things as "Adeptus Astartes" since) and they backed off.

Ah okay, that came up when I searched and it was so unrelated I assumed it was a meme of some variety you were referring to.

But yeah I'll agree with you there. Being over protective of one's IP, to an extreme level, is something some companies do that make them seem super freaken douchey. Like when gaming companies copyright strike lets players and such.

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there. Outsourcing labour to China is another based in how you see the morality of that act.

But my dissertion wasn't around that direction. I was just pointing out the hipocrisy of the standards when they are applied to an individual or a company.

 Galas wrote:

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there.

Apologies for derailing further but what happened there??

 Galas wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there. Outsourcing labour to China is another based in how you see the morality of that act.

But my dissertion wasn't around that direction. I was just pointing out the hipocrisy of the standards when they are applied to an individual or a company.

And GWs labour practices are questionable at best,,, especially when it comes to their sales force...

Anyhow,,, this is a topic for a different thread, lets keep on track here.

I wonder how completive the points cost will look this time round ?
I want to be able to field a sketatch wraithknight without needing to pay 3cp and half my points whilst maybe making back half those resources.

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Actually a lot of what GW does would be considered insane by your typical greedy capitalist today, namely keeping the production of everything but terrain and some stuff from specialist games in UK, as well as having most of their design and creative work done by salaried employees instead of minimum wage freelancers and outsourced slave labour. This has some downsides (namely, keeping incompetent employees that were promoted above their skill level just because they were with company for a long time instead of poaching someone better) but generally, as far as gaming companies go, it's hard to find better. We can argue GW prices all day but they are significantly better than UK norm there (though this says a lot of how bad UK norm is making merely adequate GW practices shining in comparison...).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

generally, as far as gaming companies go, it's hard to find better.

LOL

Not that hard XD

PP, FF, Stonemaier, leder, rio grande, roxly,,,, I can go on,,, but that's just off the top of my head lol.

Don't PP manufacture in China?

 harlokin wrote:
Don't PP manufacture in China?

Nope, they have a factory/distro center in the USA and one in the UK.

Also, even if they did manufacture in china, the amount of other shady practices from GW out weighs all of those companies.

I am not saying the other companies are "good" or "ethical"
Just better then GW.

Dai wrote:

 Galas wrote:

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there.

Apologies for derailing further but what happened there??

https://www.goonhammer.com/echoing-calls-for-justice-in-our-community/


Now, I'll add that personally I have never bought a recast. And in my group they buy a TON, but all the Forgeworld and GW models I own are legit.

Why? Because I won't have someone working in gods now what conditions, with toxic products, to deliver me a counterfeit product and someone else making a profit. When I pirate some digital product the only one thats involved is myself, and the ony that profits is myself.

But even then I have never, and would never, tell anything to anybody for using their money to do what they want (between reasonable standards that will vary depending in each person. I have my own).

EDIT: I have to say I find GW practices as Irbis says really reasonable for what most multinational companies do. So I believe they are far from the worst, even if I strongly disagree with their prices and many practices they do with that. So I don't pirate their rules for a personal vendetta agaisnt them.

I really do think the widespread recasting is a big reason GW is trying to wind down FW for 40k and AOS. People say you can recast plastic too, and it's not totally wrong...but it's a lot harder.

 Irbis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

Hmm... what's more likely for GW's complete shift in rules and miniature design ethos:

1. A court-case where they were taken to task over IP and copyright that, as it turns out, was mostly imagined. A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all, and where they claimed that things such as arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers were their own creation.
2. 4chan.

I'm leaning towards the sec... no... first one. Probably the first one.

"A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all,"

Wow, I'd have loved to been that opposing counsel. So easy.

SecondTime wrote:
"A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all,"

Wow, I'd have loved to been that opposing counsel. So easy.

those new Necron walker thingies in the indominus box really remind me of something.... can't put my finger on it.. ohjh well surely not war of the worlds walker

Return of the Death Korps of Krieg

The first thing worth noting is that the Death Korps gain access to the full Astra Militarum arsenal from the codex. Now, the tanks, infantry, and auxiliaries available to other Regiments can also be used in this army – those Ogryns already come with gas masks ready to go!

The Death Korps are a particularly renowned regiment of course, so they also gain access to a bunch of units that no other regiment has. There are five updated datasheets that are bespoke to the Krieg sub-faction, from the Death Korps Marshal to the iconic Combat Engineer Squads who exemplify their regiment’s mastery of siegecraft.

Several other Death Korps of Krieg units that are no longer in production will be getting Warhammer Legends rules in November. This means that they can still be used in matched, narrative and open play games for those players who own the models and want to continue using them, though they won’t be considered a current part of the game for the purposes of official competitive events.

Death Korps Marshall Karis Venner
Death Korps Grenadier Squad
Quartermaster Cadre Squad
Death Rider Commissar
Storm Chimera

Alongside these, there will also be Warhammer Legends rules on the way for dozens of other classic Warhammer 40,000 units that are not currently on sale. These will include rare vehicles types, unusual Dreadnought patterns, obscure xenos contraptions and other classic Forge World units, so players can continue to use their full collection in their games.

Hooray for Legends.

Can't wait to see the Repressor rules.

Goodbye Carcass rounds, we knew thee well.

If this is the best thing they can think of to promote the Compendium then it doesn't bode well for the other units in it. If they're bragging about moving so many of DKoK's iconic units to legends, what does that say about what they aren't bragging about? Don't they have anything to entice players of other factions into buying it?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
If this is the best thing they can think of to promote the Compendium then it doesn't bode well for the other units in it. If they're bragging about moving so many of DKoK's iconic units to legends, what does that say about what they aren't bragging about? Don't they have anything to entice players of other factions into buying it?

it's basically taking a huge dump upon half the DKoK players which allready got 1 list type and playstyle of them destoryed with the removal of the assault list ...

And then getting replaced by ogryns,.. of all things... yeah i am sure all those DKoK players are happy that they now have Ogryns instead of their supposed cloned shock troop..

Ah, so the the Grenadiers are going to Legends, and my DKoK Assault Brigade will no longer be legal for events (constituting the bulk of my opportunity for play in the last few years).

Games Workshop is oddly insistent about not wanting any portion of my income anymore.

It's pretty telling when your *advertising* for the new book is "look at everything we took away!"

Book is up for preorder. $65 + shipping. Description claims 222 datasheets vs 189 in the preview article. Somebody's counting wrong. Wonder if we'll see any reviews, and when?

I suspect that GW have been so quiet about the actual rules in the book for either of the two following reasons.

This book has actually been writen and tested with the 9th edition codex's and the rules either won't work untill your factions codex is released.
Also the book will potentially give a huge insite into mechanics contained the new codex's highlighting that they have all clearly been written and play tested and the shocking imbalance of 9th is purely to drag out the release dates.

The book was writen for 8 and is little more than a reprint of the Index's with at best the FAQ/Erratta changed incorporated, which will be overcosted, and be incompatible with the 8th edition codex's.

Most likely the second one, but hopefully not.

$65 for a book that takes away dozens of datasheets. LOL, only GW could try to get away with that...

I just hope the Marine characters aren't ruined. I can already find a couple of uses for the Asterion standin but between Legends on a bunch of them and knowing the treatment GW gives I'm very much worried about Tyberos.

Also does Chapters of reknown imply rules for the FW Chapters?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

Hmm... what's more likely for GW's complete shift in rules and miniature design ethos:

1. A court-case where they were taken to task over IP and copyright that, as it turns out, was mostly imagined. A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all, and where they claimed that things such as arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers were their own creation.

So they didn't just lose the case, they were completely laughed out of court?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
$65 for a book that takes away dozens of datasheets. LOL, only GW could try to get away with that...

Well they did successfully just sell most of you fools numerous PA volumes ....