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2020/12/03 13:04:37
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
I've been massively enjoying Adeptus Titanicus recently, and what's amazing to me is that it's the very first GW game I've ever played where I LOVE the very core of the gameplay system, and don't love the game because of the many various bells and whistles attached to it. If anything, in my eyes the maniple bonuses, stratagem system, warlord traits, and titan legion bonuses cheapen what starts as a really great tactical game by adding unduly to the strategic layer.
Luckily this isn't a game I'm looking to play with any kind of wide group or in any kind of competitive setting, and I have the benefit of the internet's impossibly vast well of free 3d printing resources to make pretty much any units from the 40k universe I can conceive of in 8mm titanicus scale.
So, if you wanted to add new units to adeptus titanicus, what would you add and how would you add them?
A couple of ideas from myself:
1) New supporting elements that are not knights but perform similarly.
Knights are great, but the simplified statlines they have make it seem like you could fairly easily tweak the household support system to allow someone to choose between a number of different support types that would have been available during the horus heresy. If we keep "2 mechanicum knights for 140pts with wargear" as the baseline for the minimum a unit activation should cost a player, you could add some slightly smaller elements than knights with higher minimum squad costs.
-Adeptus Mechanicus Support: Krios battle tanks, Thanatar and Domitar class Battle Automata, Macroarid Explorators, you could have Mechanicum repair elements represented by Triaros armored conveyors, etc
-Space Marine Legionary Support: the various superheavy tanks available to the legiones astartes like the Fellblade, Cerberus, Falchion, etc. Some like Mastodons even have Void Shields.
-Imperial Army Support: larger companies of smaller battle tanks I think would be cool for imperial army support elements to keep the Guard as the "quantity over quality" support faction, but obviously Baneblade chassis would be incredibly easy to add as we already have Adeptus Titanicus statlines for many of the weapons mounted on shadowsword chassis.
2) new Titan-Class elements. Some of the biggest superheavies available to some classes may edge into titan class territory, I already mentioned the void shield equipped Mastodon, the Ordinatus vehicles have a similar but slightly different type of void shield that only protects the front and side arc and burns out over time, a Void Shield/Flare Shield hybrid. There are also classes of titan like the Rapier, Carnivore and Punisher that do not yet have rules support.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/03 20:30:16
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Iracundus wrote: Xenos Titans (Eldar, Orks, Tyranids already have existing Epic Titans just waiting for re-introduction)
True, though all of them require much more significant rewrites than imperial titans or smaller units to add.
Orks have 'nauts at the knight level, stompas at about Acastus knight level, and gargants at basically any level, and I hear theres a homebrew project to add them ongoing.
Eldar have phantoms, revenants, warlocks and wraithknights.
The wraith spirits within the core of the eldar titans could use a similar mechanic to machine spirits, the biggest question is how to model holofields in the game as compared to void shields.
And then tyranids have hierophants, dactylis, dominatrix. I think rather than fielding knight equivalent units the tyranids could use some abstracted representation of "the swarm" on the battlefield, bit i dont know how to represent that.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/05 01:39:02
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
As soon as you bring in tanks, you effectively go from AT to Epic and that changes the game at a fundamental level.
Sticking to AT in the era of the Horus Heresy, it would make the most sense to bring in the Eldar and Orks first with an occasional "lost" Imperial design to keep the oomies fresh. I don't know if the market is strong enough for unique Chaos designs but I'm sure Forge World can do resin if plastic can't be justified.
2020/12/05 13:27:37
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Personally, I don't feel that superheavies are significantly different from knights (if anything, they're more like titans than the knights). So I don't think it would be very hard to do nor would it break the game in any way.
That said... xenos. This game needs xenos factions.
2020/12/05 13:36:32
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Chaos designs tend ti be upgrades from existing Imperial Titans, so that wouldn't be too difficult to do. Maybe we'll find out that tje Slaanesh Scout Titans are actually based off the Imperial Rapier Titan.
OK, so, how? Adding xenos titans essentially means you have to come up with at least some ground-up fundamental new core mechanics to replace Void Shielding, Machine Spirits, and the Reactor mechanic. I think the Gargant homebrew is a fairly solid one - orks, admittedly, do seem to be the easiest to implement of the three xenos factions that definitely have existing titan-class designs - so what would be your framework for bringing in tyranids and eldar?
Eldar titans are run using infinity circuits, and the pilots commune with the dead inside their machines. That could be a basis for them either just using the same machine spirit table or having their own modified version. Holo-fields and mobility are the primary defenses their titans have, and mobility is actually a good defense in AT. Holo-fields are supposed to be a field that makes the titan impossible for machine spirits to target by creating illusory copies of the titan. Maybe you could have a holo-field level like "-4" to start with, which modifies the hit roll of an opposing titan and, like called shots, bypasses the '6 always hits' rule so you can make opponents' hit rolls impossible. But any time an enemy fires on an Eldar titan and misses entirely, they've committed a firing solution to what turned out to be an illusory copy, and the Holo-field level goes down as they communicate to their gunners not to attack that target. But if any shots connect, the holo-field does not go down as the gunners have hedged their bets and fired a spread of shots.
similar to how you tactically target void shields with high ROF midstrength weaponry to bring them down before going for the killshot or you close within 2" to bypass them, when fighting Eldar titans you could either attack with template weaponry, which still often lands a hit even if the shot missed, or you could use Split Fire orders and First Fire orders to send test shots out to degrade the Holofield level.
Biotitans present a pretty big challenge. Tyranids to me seem difficult to make not boring, frankly. You can have a Synapse system whereby certain creatures (Dominatrix if I recall correctly are the main ones that do this) receive an order, they can transmit that same order to everything within a certain radius, making the 'nids act as a 'single minded swarm' and Instinctive Behavior is absolutely a great parallel to the machine spirit 'morale mechanic' but they don't really have any kind of durability mechanic beyond just being big tough animals, and I also don't have any ideas for resource management....
What if "The Swarm" was their resource management mechanic? Every bit of lore about titans fighting biotitans has the swarm of smaller nid beasties playing a large part - suicidally overloading void shields, boarding titans, jamming up weapons systems.
And as a defense mechanism, what about some kind of 'adaptive physiology' mechanic? Obviously nid titans are going to have a LOT of meat on them bones in terms of structure points compared to imperial titans of the same size, what if targeting them with the same types of weaponry caused them to become stronger against that type?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: As soon as you bring in tanks, you effectively go from AT to Epic and that changes the game at a fundamental level.
I'm really not seeing the major distinction between a baneblade-chassis tank and a knight. Most baneblade chassis weaponry makes way more sense to include in AT than the weponry they're including with knights - Ironstorm Missile Launchers, knight gatling guns, freaking single meltaguns and twin lascanons and single grav guns have rules.
But a tank that mounts your choice of Volcano Cannon, Vulcan Megabolter, Plasma Blastgun or Quake Cannon is out of the scale of AT?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/06 04:08:18
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/13 00:45:25
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Tyranid Bio-Titans were in a weird design space as they came in towards the end of Epic. They had no shields, but a Wounds characteristic instead. They had a spider shaped silhouette that made it hard to land hits, and there was no single critical location as with Imperial and Eldar Titans. Instead, hits had a chance of causing critical hits which had a chance to impair function or cause additional wounds. Once a Bio-Titan had Wounds equal to its Wounds characteristic it would collapse, but get a chance to regenerate. I forget whether it was 4+ or 5+ per wound counter. If after regenerating, it still had wounds equal or greater than its Wounds characteristic then it died, otherwise it got back to its feet. So to make sure it stayed dead, enemies could keep pumping shots into a down Bio-Titan.
Since then, GW/FW have added a warp field as a quick mechanic to reduce damage.
The ranged weapons of the Bio-Titans were a bit lackluster though. They were powerful in close combat, and their power fist equivalent (Razor Claw) was better than an Imperial Titan power fist, and their head lashwhip tendrils (basically neutralizing the special effects of an enemy Titan close combat weapon), were good. However their ranged weapons were not very noteworthy. The list is below:
Bile Launcher: One shot a turn weapon. Good armor penetration and good to-hit. Big bonus to damage table rolls. Splatter effect. Reasonable, but needed other weapons to strip enemy Titan shields first
Bio-Cannon: Solid if bland. Mix of decent number of shots, a small bonus to damage table rolls, but a 5+ to-hit. If you wanted ranged weapons, it was the no-brainer choice, with the 2nd arm either having another one or the Bile Launcher
Cluster Spines: Barrage weapon for general purpose anti-infantry or light/medium vehicle work. Similar to those mounted on the old Tyranid vehicle sized Haruspex and Malefactor. Why mount mere vehicle equivalent weapons on a TItan hardpoint though?
Lashwhip tendrils: The other head hardpoint choice and more of a defensive choice but probably the better one over the Pyro-acid Spray. Prevented enemy infantry from gaining bonuses for multiple combat and could neutralize an enemy Titan close combat weapon's special rules
Pyro-acid spray: Template weapon. Good armor modifier and ignored cover. Short range though. An overall meh weapon. Might get used simply because not much else could be mounted on the head hardpoint
Razorclaw: Basically Powerfist with additional frag-spines for mixed light vehicle/anti-infantry. Superior to Imperial Powerfist due to the secondary weapons and due to bonus on roll for ripping off Titan parts.
Spore Pods: Bolter equivalent shots for massed close range anti-infantry. Problem was why use a valuable Titan weapon hardpoint for bolter-equivalents?
Stinger Salvo: Anti-light vehicle and infantry roll. Large number of shots comparable to autocannon. Weakness was using up a valuable weapon hardpoint for a mediocre weapon more suitable for a vehicle.
So I think there needs to be a revamp of Tyranid ranged weapons so they don't just become one trick close combat faction. Maybe more focus on the attritional corrosive aspect, so maybe a hit keeps on damaging over time? They would also need more weapons capable of stripping shields, or their Titans have to be cheap so they outnumber their opponents and can bring enough shots to bear to strip shields.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/13 01:40:26
2020/12/15 00:39:28
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Iracundus wrote: Tyranid Bio-Titans were in a weird design space as they came in towards the end of Epic. They had no shields, but a Wounds characteristic instead. They had a spider shaped silhouette that made it hard to land hits, and there was no single critical location as with Imperial and Eldar Titans. Instead, hits had a chance of causing critical hits which had a chance to impair function or cause additional wounds. Once a Bio-Titan had Wounds equal to its Wounds characteristic it would collapse, but get a chance to regenerate. I forget whether it was 4+ or 5+ per wound counter. If after regenerating, it still had wounds equal or greater than its Wounds characteristic then it died, otherwise it got back to its feet. So to make sure it stayed dead, enemies could keep pumping shots into a down Bio-Titan.
Since then, GW/FW have added a warp field as a quick mechanic to reduce damage.
The ranged weapons of the Bio-Titans were a bit lackluster though. They were powerful in close combat, and their power fist equivalent (Razor Claw) was better than an Imperial Titan power fist, and their head lashwhip tendrils (basically neutralizing the special effects of an enemy Titan close combat weapon), were good. However their ranged weapons were not very noteworthy. The list is below:
Bile Launcher: One shot a turn weapon. Good armor penetration and good to-hit. Big bonus to damage table rolls. Splatter effect. Reasonable, but needed other weapons to strip enemy Titan shields first
Bio-Cannon: Solid if bland. Mix of decent number of shots, a small bonus to damage table rolls, but a 5+ to-hit. If you wanted ranged weapons, it was the no-brainer choice, with the 2nd arm either having another one or the Bile Launcher
Cluster Spines: Barrage weapon for general purpose anti-infantry or light/medium vehicle work. Similar to those mounted on the old Tyranid vehicle sized Haruspex and Malefactor. Why mount mere vehicle equivalent weapons on a TItan hardpoint though?
Lashwhip tendrils: The other head hardpoint choice and more of a defensive choice but probably the better one over the Pyro-acid Spray. Prevented enemy infantry from gaining bonuses for multiple combat and could neutralize an enemy Titan close combat weapon's special rules
Pyro-acid spray: Template weapon. Good armor modifier and ignored cover. Short range though. An overall meh weapon. Might get used simply because not much else could be mounted on the head hardpoint
Razorclaw: Basically Powerfist with additional frag-spines for mixed light vehicle/anti-infantry. Superior to Imperial Powerfist due to the secondary weapons and due to bonus on roll for ripping off Titan parts.
Spore Pods: Bolter equivalent shots for massed close range anti-infantry. Problem was why use a valuable Titan weapon hardpoint for bolter-equivalents?
Stinger Salvo: Anti-light vehicle and infantry roll. Large number of shots comparable to autocannon. Weakness was using up a valuable weapon hardpoint for a mediocre weapon more suitable for a vehicle.
So I think there needs to be a revamp of Tyranid ranged weapons so they don't just become one trick close combat faction. Maybe more focus on the attritional corrosive aspect, so maybe a hit keeps on damaging over time? They would also need more weapons capable of stripping shields, or their Titans have to be cheap so they outnumber their opponents and can bring enough shots to bear to strip shields.
This is really cool, and it set me on the train of researching what 'nids were like in Epic - holy moly have things changed!
The thing I've noticed is that GW has absolutely scrambled around the general scale of what the bigger beasties are, mostly in the form of making things smaller (many things that were big vehicles in Epic are now comparatively smaller monsters, like the Trygon, Exocrine, etc, and some are just totally different like the Maleceptor being a transport vehicle.)
So, if we're going to bring 'Nids into Adeptus Titanicus, I think it makes sense to re-introduce the high end a little bit.
I designed a very early-alpha 'nid roster that I'm going to start playtesting. I've got:
-Abominations Minoris Weapon-Form Brood: In previous experiments I have expanded the lower range of what units are included in AT with Leman Russ tanks, Land Raiders, and Thanatar-Class Battle Automata with solid success, with lower point costs and usually a single knight-class small weapon but with a higher minimum unit size to make their minimum cost the same or more than a unit of Questoris Knights (so you can't just spam them for cheap activations). So this unit is 1 Hive Tyrant plus several of your choice of Maleceptors, Exocrines, Toxicrenes, Haruspex, and Tyrannofex. This unit provides a 'skirmishing/scoring' unit to the nids that is not leashed by their Synapse mechanic as long as the Tyrant is alive.
-Heirodule Brood: Similar to Knights, but cheaper and with no Ion Shields. This is basically the non-synapse unit that you use as a 'nid player to punish the strategy of your opponent solely attacking your biggest lynchpin synapse creature. If you let all the Heirodules crash your lines and you just take out the Synapse creature, the 'dules will be able to rip you apart at close range.
-Hierophant Biotitan: The Toolbox biotitan. Similiar in size and armament to a Warhound, with a variety of weaponry. Generally closer range by default than Warhounds.
-Dactylis Biotitan: The dead opposite of the Hierophant. Longer range, more durable, slower, and reliant on solely reliant on a Carapace weapon, so though it's significantly cheaper fills a similar role to the Warbringer where it's the titan you REALLY don't want enemies to close with. I need alternative weapon ideas for the Dactylis, since currently it just has the big spore launcher described in epic/the lore.
-Dominatrix Biotitan: This is the thing I've changed the most from existing lore. Basically, in Epic it's smaller than most stuff - even Heirodules, which doesn't really jive with something the 'nids occasionally send down with one of the Norn Queens of the hive fleet riding on its back. I'm thinking this thing is going to be close to a Warlord in terms of durability, though with greater support capability and less ranged firepower.
In terms of general mechanics, I followed these general principles
-Tyranids should feel SINGLE-MINDED. if you concentrate your battle tactics for a turn to hinge on a single action, that should feel very powerful with the 'nids
-Void Shields should feel like 'the dam that holds back the swarm' - nearly every fiction piece I read with nids fighting titans the nids give up heavy losses trying to bring down the shields of the imperial titans, and once the shields go down it gets swarmed, boarded, dissolved with acid, etc. As such nids don't tend to have very many analogues to Apocalypse Missile Launchers, Vulcan Megabolters or other common void-stripping weapons that can take the shields down on a titan without much effort at all.
in terms of "Core Mechanics" I've kept the idea of Warp Fields on everything Heirophant and up, because trying to get titans to work sans any kind of shielding mechanic just inevitably doesn't seem to work very well, blowing apart big stuff from downtown with low-ROF high-strength weaponry becomes way too easy. Warp Fields are weaker and less numerous than Voids, their only advantage being that Psi and Warp weaponry does not auto-bypass them. They also cannot be repaired during the Damage Control phase, they can only be brought back up with a Psychic test, which burns a much dearer resource for your big biotitans.
In place of Clades 'nids have Hypermetabolism points, which work the same way during the Damage Control step but trade out the Repair Shields roll with Regenerate Structure Points.
In place of pushing the reactor, Tyranids can take structure points of damage to their legs to boost speed or boost maneuver, and can take a structure point to the head to push warp fields.
All 'nid titans with Warp Fields are also Psykers, but unlike psi-titans they can choose in the Command Phase to either take a normal command check or take a psychic test. Their powers are generally a lot weaker than the Warlord Psi-titans powers.
Larger biotitans have a Synapse score. the primary purpose of Synapse is if you're a non-synapse creature out of range, no orders and you must target the nearest enemy unit. If you're a Synapse creature and you pass a command check to issue an Order, you can choose to auto-pass all creatures within Synapse that same order.
And lastly, in place of the plasma reactor resource management mechanic, Biotitans have the Swarm mechanic, representing all the smaller nid beasties that cluster around the biotitans that the Hive Mind expends liberally to gain any kind of advantage in a titanic conflict. The primary purposes of the Swarm is to suicidally charge into Void Shields to overload them, conceal the biotitan from incoming fire, and allow the biotitan to achieve mission objectives to make up for the fact that 'nids generally have to take a more aggressive footing compared to imperial titans.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/15 07:28:30
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
The original Epic Bio-Titans were: Hierodule (warhound equivalent), Hierophant (Warlord equivalent)
Then later Hierodules were downsized, Hierophants became more like Reavers, and they introduced the Hydraphant (no models ever made) to be the new Warlord class equivalent.
Later still, FW seemed to downgrade Hierodules further to the point of them being super-heavy tank equivalents.
Malefactor has no 40K equivalent right now. It was the APC of its time, while the Haruspex was the close combat oriented breakthrough tank creature. Dactylis was the indirect fire artillery, lobbing bile pods, while the Exocrine was long range direct fire.
The Dominatrix creature was actually not a Norn Queen, but rather the leader of the ground based swarms. The Dominatrix proper was the fusion of the big creature with the "Aliens space jockey" on the back, and neither one alone was the Dominatrix. In Epic, it was a super-heavy, and could regenerate and had a warp field. It had a bio-cannon on its back, which was decent and lots of short range spines for anti-infantry work. What really made it deadly though was it was a psyker and could use a power (I think it was Warp Pulse or something like that) and it basically hit like multiple Volcano cannon hits, either downing shields or destroying Titans and super-heavies. It also had the largest Synapse range of any Tyranid ground creature. However in the editions since Epic Hive War, GW has focused more on the humanoid Hive Tyrants (since those can appear on a 40K battlefield) and de-emphasized the Dominatrix, even though originally the Tyrants were the expendable consort minds of the Dominatrix. Mere lieutenants in other words to the command unit of the Dominatrix, which was in size more like a Capitol Imperialis. Titans were bigger, but they were the goons to the ground swarm queen that was the Dominatrix.
What made the Tyranid Titans terrifying was their speed and their close combat ability. They could close the range rapidly especially with a particular Hive Mind card (sort of like strategem cards, but generated based on how in touch the Tyranid force was with the Hive Mind) in Epic that allowed charge to be triple their move instead of double. There was also another Hive Mind card that allowed a downed unit to regenerate all of its Wounds automatically. Nothing more frustrating than pouring a ridiculous amount of firepower into a Hierophant, making it collapse, only for it to rise fully healed and in range to slam into your Titan or lines. In that sense they were sort of like the Necrons of their time. You had to shoot them extra times to be sure.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/15 07:31:52
2020/12/15 14:09:50
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Iracundus wrote: The original Epic Bio-Titans were: Hierodule (warhound equivalent), Hierophant (Warlord equivalent)
Then later Hierodules were downsized, Hierophants became more like Reavers, and they introduced the Hydraphant (no models ever made) to be the new Warlord class equivalent.
Later still, FW seemed to downgrade Hierodules further to the point of them being super-heavy tank equivalents.
Malefactor has no 40K equivalent right now. It was the APC of its time, while the Haruspex was the close combat oriented breakthrough tank creature. Dactylis was the indirect fire artillery, lobbing bile pods, while the Exocrine was long range direct fire.
The Dominatrix creature was actually not a Norn Queen, but rather the leader of the ground based swarms. The Dominatrix proper was the fusion of the big creature with the "Aliens space jockey" on the back, and neither one alone was the Dominatrix. In Epic, it was a super-heavy, and could regenerate and had a warp field. It had a bio-cannon on its back, which was decent and lots of short range spines for anti-infantry work. What really made it deadly though was it was a psyker and could use a power (I think it was Warp Pulse or something like that) and it basically hit like multiple Volcano cannon hits, either downing shields or destroying Titans and super-heavies. It also had the largest Synapse range of any Tyranid ground creature. However in the editions since Epic Hive War, GW has focused more on the humanoid Hive Tyrants (since those can appear on a 40K battlefield) and de-emphasized the Dominatrix, even though originally the Tyrants were the expendable consort minds of the Dominatrix. Mere lieutenants in other words to the command unit of the Dominatrix, which was in size more like a Capitol Imperialis. Titans were bigger, but they were the goons to the ground swarm queen that was the Dominatrix.
What made the Tyranid Titans terrifying was their speed and their close combat ability. They could close the range rapidly especially with a particular Hive Mind card (sort of like strategem cards, but generated based on how in touch the Tyranid force was with the Hive Mind) in Epic that allowed charge to be triple their move instead of double. There was also another Hive Mind card that allowed a downed unit to regenerate all of its Wounds automatically. Nothing more frustrating than pouring a ridiculous amount of firepower into a Hierophant, making it collapse, only for it to rise fully healed and in range to slam into your Titan or lines. In that sense they were sort of like the Necrons of their time. You had to shoot them extra times to be sure.
My initial tests did not use Warp Fields and instead had 'nids with dramatically more structure points and more repair points than imperial titans, and it just didn't function. AT18 is balanced around the fact that huge, long range weaponry with super high strength can't just ace you from across the board turn 1.
The decision to upsize the Dominatrix is also driven by the idea that in epic, you can have smaller commanders who are protected simply by not being the closer target and the limited range of the game. In AT18, the dominatrix can be targeted usually just as easily as anything else, so upsizing it to be the biggest titan on the field for the 'nids makes picking it out a commitment of firepower.
Theyre definitely the Command-based nid unit, with a Synapse range of 24" you can generally use them to Synapse-command basically your whole army if you want to, which definitely brings in that 'terrifying mobility' aspect as long as the nids are working in concert with one another.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/16 06:33:59
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
The warp field in Epic 2nd edition was what would now be an invulnerable save. The Dominatrix had like a 3++ or 4++ from what I can recall offhand. FW then introduced the Warp Field to their Hierophant Titan and it was a 5++.
An invulnerable save equivalent to the Hierophant might go some way to ameliorating damage, while keeping the Tyranids still leaning towards regenerating damage (and numbers) rather than a similar system to void shields.
2020/12/16 09:54:36
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Holofields didn't make additional copies, but shattered the outline of the thing being protected so you cant see where it is within the field. Also the faster the move the greater the effect. So the mechanic for Eldar would be managing speed and firepower.if you go too fast you can't hit with your own weapons. If you slow down too soon to get a big hit in, you might not kill your target and it will mash you with return fire. Ultimate glass cannon. However I wonder if that might not be as fun to play against as it is very all or nothing. No feeling of gradual success leading to triumph. Not sure if that is an important part of the fun of the game, or of stuff can get obliterated in single turns anyway.
Could potentially use psy power/fatigue as a reactor equivalent.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Flinty wrote: Holofields didn't make additional copies, but shattered the outline of the thing being protected so you cant see where it is within the field. Also the faster the move the greater the effect. So the mechanic for Eldar would be managing speed and firepower.if you go too fast you can't hit with your own weapons. If you slow down too soon to get a big hit in, you might not kill your target and it will mash you with return fire. Ultimate glass cannon. However I wonder if that might not be as fun to play against as it is very all or nothing. No feeling of gradual success leading to triumph. Not sure if that is an important part of the fun of the game, or of stuff can get obliterated in single turns anyway.
In Epic, holofields were based on the Orders given to the Titan. If it was on First Fire, it got to fire in the First Fire phase, but the save was 4+. If it was on Advance, then it got to fire in the Advance phase (after First Fire phase), and the save was 3+. If it was on Charge, it got to double move and charge into close combat but could not fire, but the save was 2+. Barrage template weapons ignored the holofield save entirely.
In practice, Eldar Titans were always on Advance, since being on First Fire was tantamount to suicide, and Eldar Titans were more ranged firepower than close combat oriented. There was a Titan skill that allowed shooting while on Charge at the penalty of a -1 to hit, and this was a must-have though getting it was down to random luck.
For Eldar opponents, they just loaded up on barrage weapons ahead of the game, which made Eldar Titans actually not very survivable on the battlefield. Imperial artillery companies and heavy weapons companies were dirt cheap and expendable so it was very easy to get many barrage weapons or sheer weight of fire to ignore or overwhelm the holofield.
So yes, the old mechanics were too all or nothing. Eldar Titans were glass cannons though, and the dual pulsar version was an absolute terror to Imperial/Chaos Titans.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/16 10:43:51
2020/12/16 17:51:55
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
I'm actually a lot further along with Eldar than I am with 'nids at this point. Nids are still very much in kind of an "early alpha" stage where they don't have point costs, I'm tuning their core mechanics with playtesting, etc. I've been playing with Eldar against my friends for a while now.
Our system for representing Holo-Fields is basically a negative to-hit modifier, and just like declaring a targeted shot if you have a negative mod due to a holo-field then an attack requiring a 7+ to hit automatically fails.
Any time a unit attacks an eldar unit with a holo-field and every hit roll misses (Even if the target still takes damage, such as with an attack that includes a flamer template, or a blast template that scatters a short enough distance to still hit) then after the attack sequence ends, the holofield is degraded by 1. I understand this isn't 100% accurate to the lore of how Holo-Fields are supposed to function, but it maintains them being an interactive mechanic that both opponents contribute to, rather than just something the Eldar player has total control over that the opponent has to just deal with.
Eldar titans have lower armor and fewer hull points than imperial titans of the same size class, and unlike with Void Shields holofields are much more likely to stick around BUT are also much less likely to provide total protection. Blast weaponry against them early on in particular is still effective but just less reliable. Also, comparative to imperial titan equivalents, Eldar titans have somewhat better weaponry and the Revenant comparative to a Warhound has a carapace missile rack, which means it has self-contained void shield destroying capabilities without giving up one of the main arm guns.
The Plasma Reactor is an extremely well done mechanic, so we just renamed it to 'spirit core' and kept it exactly the same for Eldar.
In terms of design ethos, our goal for Eldar was to avoid them being so fragile that you have to give them super crazy one-shot-one-kill capabilities or sprint across the whole board mobility, but not have their defensive mechanic basically just make them exactly as or more durable than imperial equivalents.
This has all the stuff we're currently working on, in order how how much we've tested and are happy with it. Titans and Knights is mostly just the stuff from the base game (We did add Armiger-class knights), then IG Armored Support, then Mechanicum support, then Eldar, then Nids, then Space Marine Armored Support is still pretty much just in the conceptual 'hey what units should we add' stage.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Orks are also on the radar as well of course, there's a concept out there for Gargants in titanicus that I love the ideas behind but I think is just SLIGHTLY overcomplicated, which basically turns management of each gargant into a miniature meeple worker placement eurogame and that's just phenomenally funny to me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/16 17:56:08
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/17 07:17:57
Subject: Re:[Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
I am not sure I agree with that vision for holofields. Part of the difference from Imperial void shields, which pretty much guaranteed a minimum level of protection that tended to degrade as the battle progressed unless the Titan hid to regenerate shields, was that Eldar holofields conceivably could function at peak efficiency from beginning to the end of the battle, but there was a probability the very first shot could slip past them.
I think I would still be tempted to try to keep the old version of an invulnerable save that varied based on the movement of the Titan. To avoid the all or nothing phenomenon of area effect weapons being the only thing people would take against them, make those kinds of weapons have a bonus against the save (like the save worsens by 1) rather than complete ignoring of the save.
I noticed your version also did not include the Heat Lance or Tremor Cannon. There is also the issue of the Distort-Cannon, which Apoclaypse and FW have changed over time. FW had it as a shield ignoring single shot weapon, so that would be the Warp trait on it, and probably Draining. That contrasted it with the Pulsar. The Pulsar in 2nd edition Epic was the all round best Eldar weapon. I also notice you only put missile launchers for the Phantom wings, but they have the option for Bright Lance options (and again in Epic 2nd edition, I saw this option more because they complemented the Pulsars).
The Warlock Titan's most commonly used power was Witch Sight which imposed a -1 to hit roll to all enemy shots.
Eldar would be hard to get the feel right while still making it fun for both sides. They should play differently, and feel more fragile (since IMO they should still have the possibility of the very first shot causing damage), but not so fragile that they simply melt away on a single unlucky roll. While Imperial/Chaos Titans slug it out and wear each other's shields and structure down, I see the Eldar as not having that attritional component when it comes to their shields/holofields (so long as they are functional). They don't get worn down and keep dancing through fire just as effectively as at the beginning, but if they get hit it will hurt.
In contrast with all the other races, the Ork Gargants were unique in that it was literally impossible to destroy them in a single hit, even if a shot slipped through their flickering power fields. They had more shields than Imperial Titans but could not raise them, and they flickered so shots got through on a 6+. However no single hit location on a Gargant resulted in Gargant destruction, not even having the head blown off. A Gargant had to be eroded down until the number of Fire criticals built up to incapacitate it and then finally destroy it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/17 11:07:39
2020/12/18 02:47:04
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Only the Phantom and Warlock have enough distortion fields to make the first shot (from most titans) automatically fail, except for blast weaponry. In playtesting Eldar play exactly the way you describe: their shields stay up, typically until they are destroyed, and most of the time if you're getting shot as Eldar, you're worried. Generally Eldar titans tend to take damage turn 1, especially in larger games, where you're more likely to see big titans with long range big blast weapons.
You could give them an alternative of an invulnerable save dependent on movement speed, that basically worked like an always-on Void Shield that if you got past it, you made an armor roll rather than the shield level dropping, but the problem with that is unless blasts/templates just ignored it, then blasts/templates would be the LAST thing you'd want to bring vs eldar. you'd want to shoot them with low-strength high shot weaponry because that gives you the best chance to get thru the shield.
The reason I like the shield having some method of being able to be degraded, rather than being totally dependent on what the Eldar player chooses to do, is I want to avoid the pitfall that Eldar often fall into in various games where they show up of being supremely frustrating opponents. Always-on void shields just lands you in a situation where you say "Eldar are more delicate!" but...they're actually not, they're actually going to feel like they take a ton of firepower to take down, or just as much firepower as imperial titans do. In practice, I've never actually seen the Distortion fields on any eldar titan drop below -2. Eldar also have Bonesingers instead of Servitor Clades, which function the same except that you have to declare what you're rolling for when you roll your repair dice, and they roll all repair dice at +1. This means when they raise their shields, they're twice as likely to successfully raise them compared to imperials - it's extremely easy and extremely common for an Eldar titan to take some heavy fire, drop down from -4 to -2, and then in the damage control phase just repair them up to -4 again.
I'll definitely look into their Epic weaponry, I was considering giving Distort weaponry the Warp trait, the only problem is that there's D-Cannons (Wraithknights), D-Impalers on superheavy tanks, and D-Bombards on phantoms.
Warp weaponry always does the same damage. so unless you give Warp only to the biggest one, they'd have to be the same (or the small version would be WAY too powerful to put on a Knight scale model)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 02:52:15
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/19 13:49:33
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Nothing to stop people just using converted nids as imperial titans for now- catastrophic head damage is an aneurysm and reactor meltdown is an exploding heart etc....
jprp wrote: Nothing to stop people just using converted nids as imperial titans for now- catastrophic head damage is an aneurysm and reactor meltdown is an exploding heart etc....
While true, where's the fun in that?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/22 11:20:24
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
For reference, in Epic 40k, eldar titans' holofields gave them a 2+ save that worked as if they had the "Save" special rule and worked againts anything, even stuff that usually ignored void and energy shields... but any hit not nullified by it automatically caused a critical hit.
2020/12/22 12:25:54
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Albertorius wrote: For reference, in Epic 40k, eldar titans' holofields gave them a 2+ save that worked as if they had the "Save" special rule and worked againts anything, even stuff that usually ignored void and energy shields... but any hit not nullified by it automatically caused a critical hit.
Sure...but that's fething infuriating to play against. Just...shoot them until it works?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/22 19:20:27
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
Albertorius wrote: For reference, in Epic 40k, eldar titans' holofields gave them a 2+ save that worked as if they had the "Save" special rule and worked againts anything, even stuff that usually ignored void and energy shields... but any hit not nullified by it automatically caused a critical hit.
Sure...but that's fething infuriating to play against. Just...shoot them until it works?
Well, the amount of shooting going on in Epick 40k is way higher than in regular AT, and critical hits also are much nastier, so... yeah? I mean, it's the very definition of "slippery but glass jaw", right there.
It is also, as I said, a reference. An additional point of reference of how the rules have been done before, so that we have an idea of the ways they've tried to tackle it so far.
The eldar way of fighting has always meant to be super high tech particulary compared with we filthy monkeys.
This usually allows them to face more numerous armies by being:
A) Faster
B) Killier
C) Tougher, either by C.1) being really hard to hit or C.2) sheer toughness
But you only pick two for each unit, usually. Most of the time is a) and b), but not always.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/22 21:18:21
2020/12/23 03:32:39
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
All the knight class units that have disappeared because GW focused only on imperial ones.
The eldar had the Fire gale, towering destroyer and bright stallion.
Each of these corresponded to a different role. The towering destroyer had 4 arms, with heavy melee fists and weaponry.
the stallion was lighter and faster, more like a shining spear in function (lancing its way across the battlefield), with supporting weapons.
The orks had a range of knight types.
Also, I'd balance the eldar phantom titan weapons against the warlord rather than the reaver.
Originally the phantom's powerfist was identical to a warlord power fist for example (ie just a power fist).
Basically for phantoms and warlocks, I'd balance their chassis against a reaver and their weapons against a warlord, as they hit really hard but without as much survivability.
The warlock I'd differentiate through the psychic powers, psi lance and some turn shenanigans - iirc when they were first released, they got to go first, or get a second turn (it's been a while and I don't have the rules near me).
Their power was in their psychic might augmenting their reactions, making them innately harder to hit, and reaction time making them fast.
As much as I love EPIC armageddon, it did remove most of that flavour from the warlock (although they still had the tremor cannon and heat lance rules in the back of the rulebook:
Fusion Lance or Heat Lance 60cm MW2+Titan Killer (5 –1 per 15cm range to target)
Titan D-Cannon 45cm D3+1BPs Ignore Cover, Macro-weapon, Titan Killer (D6)
Tremor Cannon 75cm MW3+ Disrupt, Pulse)
In our homebrew rules, instead of making their commend checks one at a time Eldar "see the future" - You roll a number of d10 equal to your number of units one at a time and lay them out in a line, say "5, 1, 4, 6, 7". Then you go down the line and select a unit for each command roll until you reach one where you cant select a unit that can succeed.
If you have a Warlock on the battlefield, you can choose to start on the left or the right - So if you rolled my example above, youd most likely succeed 3 command checks rather than 1.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Those are pretty cool unit concepts - so it seems like the stallion and fire gale were similar in scale to knights and the destroyer more like an alternative Phantom Titan?
Ive been laying the groundwork and doing some testing on Ork units recently, since I cant seem to get nids into a place I love quite yet. Im working off of the homebrew for Gargants thats floating around, basically my rules are a slight simplification on that (though piloting gargants is still significantly more complicated than imperial titans IMO)
Gargants have the Power Field mechanic ported fairly faithfully from epic: they work like Voids except they dont come back up, theres more of them, and they "flicker" - hits of a 6 go through and make an armor roll as if the titan didnt have shields.
In general, gargants have lower armor values and more structure/more shields than imperial titans. Rather than servitor clades they have a unique mechanic called Krew.
Every gargant has a number of krew plus a Commanda, who acts like krew but always stays in the Head location. All gargant-class ork models have Legs, Belly, and Head locations, a location for each arm, and some have Auxiliary Weapons. When you put your krew tokens in a location, they can be tapped to either make a repair roll at that location or perform one of the special actions associated with that location.
Krew in arms can Aim, adding +1 to hit with that weapon (base BS is 5+, so that action helps). Krew in the head (usually the Commandas unless they die) steer the gargant, whuch just means you get to control its movement rather than it moving forward and pivoting randomly. Krew in the belly stoke or quench the boiler or pull the zappy lever that makes the shields stronger. Krew in the legs turn knobs and pull levers, which allows you to boost speed or maneuver, and krew in the auxiliary weapons let you fire those, and many auxikiary weapons have an X in the statblock that corresponds to the number of Krew you committed to the aux guns.
When a location takes a crit, you have to roll for all Krew stationed there, losing them on a 1-2. Additionally the head critical damage effects have been redesigned to relate to the Shouty Tubes. If the shouty tubes are damaged you may only reassign 1d6 krew tokens rather than all of them. If they're destroyed all krew must stay where they are.
Also, I'd balance the eldar phantom titan weapons against the warlord rather than the reaver.
Originally the phantom's powerfist was identical to a warlord power fist for example (ie just a power fist).
Basically for phantoms and warlocks, I'd balance their chassis against a reaver and their weapons against a warlord, as they hit really hard but without as much survivability.
The warlock I'd differentiate through the psychic powers, psi lance and some turn shenanigans - iirc when they were first released, they got to go first, or get a second turn (it's been a while and I don't have the rules near me).
Their power was in their psychic might augmenting their reactions, making them innately harder to hit, and reaction time making them fast.
This is basically what ive done. The Phantom and Warlock have identical AVs and fewer SPs than the Reaver, but due to how distortion fields work tend to go down to similar firepower. Their weapons are SLIGHTLY less potent than the warlords though the power of the warlords guns varies greatly. Basically the dire pulsar is slightly less potent than a bellicosa, but is (draining) rather than draining. The warlocks fist is the same strength but 1 less die than the Arioch claw, and the phantom glaive is less strength but the same dice.
Ill be adding the tremor cannon as a Quake weapon and the Fusion Lance as a fusion weapon. Did Revenants ever have weapons beyond Pulsar and Sonic?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/23 15:13:58
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/23 20:12:02
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
The warlock I'd differentiate through the psychic powers, psi lance and some turn shenanigans - iirc when they were first released, they got to go first, or get a second turn (it's been a while and I don't have the rules near me).
Their power was in their psychic might augmenting their reactions, making them innately harder to hit, and reaction time making them fast.
It's been a long time but IIRC the Space Marine Epic Warlock had some Order shenanigans where it could change or place its order after everything had been revealed, whereas normal units were stuck with their original Orders.
The psychic powers were Doom, Mind Shout, and Witch Sight. Doom targeted an enemy unit and all weapon fire against that enemy unit automatically hit at 3+ regardless of the original to-hit roll. Mind shout was short ranged like 15cm and made any unit within that range take a morale check. Witch Sight was -1 to hit the Phantom and I think in close combat the enemy rolled 1 less d6 or something like that (close combat rules were roll d6 and then add the unit's Close Assault Factor).
In practice the Witch Sight was always the power to use.
The last bit for the Warlock Titan was its shots with the Psychic Lance had a 1+ to-hit bonus which mean it hit on 4+ whereas a Phantom with a Psychic Lance hit on 5+. Psychic Lances automatically affected the Head location of an enemy Titan and represented the psychic energy messing around with the minds of the crew or the Mind Impulse Units.
2020/12/23 20:32:28
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
The warlock I'd differentiate through the psychic powers, psi lance and some turn shenanigans - iirc when they were first released, they got to go first, or get a second turn (it's been a while and I don't have the rules near me).
Their power was in their psychic might augmenting their reactions, making them innately harder to hit, and reaction time making them fast.
It's been a long time but IIRC the Space Marine Epic Warlock had some Order shenanigans where it could change or place its order after everything had been revealed, whereas normal units were stuck with their original Orders.
The psychic powers were Doom, Mind Shout, and Witch Sight. Doom targeted an enemy unit and all weapon fire against that enemy unit automatically hit at 3+ regardless of the original to-hit roll. Mind shout was short ranged like 15cm and made any unit within that range take a morale check. Witch Sight was -1 to hit the Phantom and I think in close combat the enemy rolled 1 less d6 or something like that (close combat rules were roll d6 and then add the unit's Close Assault Factor).
In practice the Witch Sight was always the power to use.
The last bit for the Warlock Titan was its shots with the Psychic Lance had a 1+ to-hit bonus which mean it hit on 4+ whereas a Phantom with a Psychic Lance hit on 5+. Psychic Lances automatically affected the Head location of an enemy Titan and represented the psychic energy messing around with the minds of the crew or the Mind Impulse Units.
The powers I put in for the Warlock are:
Doom: Select 1 enemy unit within 24" and within the front arc of the caster. Friendly units within 12" including the caster may re-roll failed to hit rolls against the target until the beginning of your next command phase.
Mind War: Select 1 enemy unit within 18" and the front arc of the caster and roll off with your opponent. If the target is Knight-Class, if you win the roll-off the target unit is Shaken and if you win the roll-off by 2 or more the target cannot act this turn. If the target is Titan-Class, if you win the roll-off by 1 the enemy unit suffers 1 critical damage to the Head. If you win the roll off by 2 or more the target suffers 1 critical damage to the head and is issued a Shutdown Order.
Fortune: Select 1 friendly Titan-class unit within 12", including this one. Until the start of your next Command phase, any time that unit would lose a structure point or take critical damage, roll a D6 for each structure point or critical location that would be lost. On a 5+, that structure point is not lost or that instance of critical damage is not taken.
At this point, my only point of comparison is the Warlord Psi-titan, and these powers seem relatively comparable on the Warlock.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/12/23 21:48:02
Subject: [Adeptus Titanicus] What kinds of units would you add and how would you homebrew them in?
The stallion, gale and destroyer were all different classes of knight.
Gale as standard, stallion as a weird larger faster one and the destroyer as a heavy knight, the equivalent of an acastus knight porphyrion perhaps (it has 2x the weaponry as it has 4 arms).
I like the bright stallion and destroyer as mirrors of each other, 4 legs fast and light, and 4 arms heavy and slower.
Revenants originally only had pulsars. It wasn't until FW released the 40k scale one that they added sonic lances.
However, given the range of options they've produced for imperial knights and titans, I don't see any reason not to offer revenant weapon options.
I've been thinking of converting a melee based revenant actually, jumping into combat with shuriken cannon shoulder racks spraying in all directions and two glaives.
The original classic weapon options for eldar titans were:
pulsars
d cannons
sonic weapons
heat weapons
psychic lances
Which were found in varying styles on the knights and phantom, but not on the revenant for some reason.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
