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So the FW errata is out. I havent seen a general post about it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/TG5TwX0VYl8BM5pK.pdf

Are there any suprises?
I cant see anything that screams WTF ?(apart from maybe ork nob biker boyz loosing options..)

Tbf I was expecting more than 4 pages...

Looks like they've cleared up some glaring issues such as the Chaos Fellblade's transport cap, and missed some glaring ones out such as the Tauros Venator's multi-lasers...

 Argive wrote:
Tbf I was expecting more than 4 pages...

That's the biggest surprise for me. Soooo many things they didn't address. My biggest gripes from a CSM perspective are:

1: Not fixing the deployment rules for Dreadclaws so that their cargo can get out when they arrive (thus missing the entire point of drop pods).
2: Not removing Martial Legacy from Contemptors, even though loyalists get Contemptors in their codex, with the exact same rules, for the exact same price.
3: Leaving Martial Legacy on the Legion Super Heavys, thus making them cost 1CP more than any other LOW in the game.
4: Not giving Contemptors with two melee weapons back their extra attack, despite every other dreadnought in the game getting that if they have two melee weapons.

I'm guessing from an Eldar perspective you'd notice they didn't give Shadow Specters CORE and didn't do anything to mitigate the terrible handling of Wraith Seers?

Looks like the fix for the hornets has slightly screwed up the points, technically.
They now come with hornet pulse lasers for a total of 90 pts but the default cost assumes shuriken cannons for 80 pts.
Except if you want to arm it with shuriken cannons they now don't have shuriken cannons as an option in the points values...obviously common sense says that a hornet with shuriken cannons is 80 pts but...

I'm happy to get units back.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm happy to get units back.

Yeah, must've sucked to have some of your units be possibly unplayable in your army. But you have them back, and with a new keyword. Any thoughts on what ARCANA ASTARTES might mean for Thousand Sons?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Tbf I was expecting more than 4 pages...

That's the biggest surprise for me. Soooo many things they didn't address. My biggest gripes from a CSM perspective are:

1: Not fixing the deployment rules for Dreadclaws so that their cargo can get out when they arrive (thus missing the entire point of drop pods).
2: Not removing Martial Legacy from Contemptors, even though loyalists get Contemptors in their codex, with the exact same rules, for the exact same price.
3: Leaving Martial Legacy on the Legion Super Heavys, thus making them cost 1CP more than any other LOW in the game.
4: Not giving Contemptors with two melee weapons back their extra attack, despite every other dreadnought in the game getting that if they have two melee weapons.

I'm guessing from an Eldar perspective you'd notice they didn't give Shadow Specters CORE and didn't do anything to mitigate the terrible handling of Wraith Seers?

I was expecting getting more than 4 attacks for the PL or wraithseer.. But alas that would be broken OP.. (looks at ANY SM character...)
Its clear nobody who wrote the book really cared.

I wasn't excepting shadowspecters to be core. It doesnt really mean anything for CWE currently. But maybe was wildly hoping for an exarch power/ WL trait for irlith or ability to take one from the codex..

I've resigned to the waraithseer looking like a pile of cow dung next to imperial/Chaos dreads so... Yeah. No surprise..

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Tbf I was expecting more than 4 pages...

That's the biggest surprise for me. Soooo many things they didn't address. My biggest gripes from a CSM perspective are:

1: Not fixing the deployment rules for Dreadclaws so that their cargo can get out when they arrive (thus missing the entire point of drop pods).
2: Not removing Martial Legacy from Contemptors, even though loyalists get Contemptors in their codex, with the exact same rules, for the exact same price.
3: Leaving Martial Legacy on the Legion Super Heavys, thus making them cost 1CP more than any other LOW in the game.
4: Not giving Contemptors with two melee weapons back their extra attack, despite every other dreadnought in the game getting that if they have two melee weapons.

I'm guessing from an Eldar perspective you'd notice they didn't give Shadow Specters CORE and didn't do anything to mitigate the terrible handling of Wraith Seers?

Regarding Contemptors, keep in mind the FW Loyalist one costs CP, and it costs the same exact amount in points if you go with the two default codex loadouts. It's fething bizarre to be honest. Really makes me think they need to just let go anyone on the current rules team and start from scratch.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Tbf I was expecting more than 4 pages...

That's the biggest surprise for me. Soooo many things they didn't address. My biggest gripes from a CSM perspective are:

1: Not fixing the deployment rules for Dreadclaws so that their cargo can get out when they arrive (thus missing the entire point of drop pods).
2: Not removing Martial Legacy from Contemptors, even though loyalists get Contemptors in their codex, with the exact same rules, for the exact same price.
3: Leaving Martial Legacy on the Legion Super Heavys, thus making them cost 1CP more than any other LOW in the game.
4: Not giving Contemptors with two melee weapons back their extra attack, despite every other dreadnought in the game getting that if they have two melee weapons.

I'm guessing from an Eldar perspective you'd notice they didn't give Shadow Specters CORE and didn't do anything to mitigate the terrible handling of Wraith Seers?

Regarding Contemptors, keep in mind the FW Loyalist one costs CP, and it costs the same exact amount in points if you go with the two default codex loadouts. It's fething bizarre to be honest. Really makes me think they need to just let go anyone on the current rules team and start from scratch.

Atleast there was propper effort in there. UNlike the completely botched legends rules which basically only just barely got made to work in the most unhealthy way possible for the game.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm happy to get units back.

Lucky you. Originally gw wasn't planning to errata that. Wonder what changed their mind

FW were never taken away from DG and TS. They merely clarified the rules.

Well, from a GSC perspective, nothing changed

 Jidmah wrote:
FW were never taken away from DG and TS. They merely clarified the rules.

Well, at least it's all cleared up now. And it looks like it's confirmed Death Guard are keeping the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword along with BUBONIC ASTARTES.

So......Death Shroud jumping out of a Storm Eagle for an easy turn 2 charge? Maybe too expensive. I'd suggest Plague Marines in Dreadclaws to get on objectives fast, but they didn't fix their rules in this, unfortunately.

Death Guard were already using terrax assault drills to get plague marines with flails onto objectives, and many people do have DG leviathans for multiple reasons.

As for the storm eagle, that is a cute idea, but a LR also does that job just as well.

 Jidmah wrote:
Death Guard were already using terrax assault drills to get plague marines with flails onto objectives, and many people do have DG leviathans for multiple reasons.

As for the storm eagle, that is a cute idea, but a LR also does that job just as well.

Eh, the Storm Eagle idea just sounded fun. Good to know I'm not the only one still using a Land Raider though, but mines an Achilles loaded with plasma Chosen.

Dreadclaws could get you there turn 1, the drill has to wait until turn 2, but until they fix the Claw's rules your guys are stuck in the tin can until the turn after it deployed. So drills it stays, it seems.

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with not making a FW model mandatory for every DG army.

I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

Karol wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

It's not really any different to having to buy new models when a new Codex comes out because the good units have changed. Yes, these rules are in a different book, but that's the nature of FW (and probably a different topic altogether). It's not like they've taken a bunch of units previously in the Codex and moved them to the FW book. I wouldn't even say you need the FW models for a competitive DG army, depending on the style of army you're going for. The Codex looks to be getting a pretty serious overhaul anyway so I don't think we can make any statements yet about what's optimal and what isn't.

Well it is different, because FW units aren't in the codex. And not all stores allow you to run FW stuff. So if GW designs your army to work optimal with FW, and your place of playing doesn't allow the use of the FW units you are in a not good position.

And for GK what happened seems to be that GW took options that were only produced by FW, and which were once options in the GK codex, and now got turned in to legends only, which doesn't help the playability of those units one bit. Also the chance of an overhaul of our models made by FW is near zero. So the perspective can be different I guess.

Karol wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

No unit is "mandatory", except for maybe basic troops options. Just because something is good doesn't mean you absolutely have to have it. But every unit should have functional rules, and a drop pod that can't deploy its cargo when it arrives from deep strike isn't functional. Those of us who have Dreadclaws should have rules for them that work. The rules for CSM units have nothing to do with Grey Knights.

And don't worry about any CSM unit in this book being "too good", because gw went out of their way to make them all "just ok", right up to slapping a 1CP surcharge on most of them, which nobody else has to pay for their fw units except loyalists, who have plenty of options to use in their codex besides those in this book.

I can't take credit for noticing this first, but DG and TSons GAIN Bubonic/Arcana Astartes in addition to keeping Heretic Astartes but GK LOSE Adeptus Astartes to gain Sanctic Astartes.

Karol wrote:

And for GK what happened seems to be that GW took options that were only produced by FW, and which were once options in the GK codex, and now got turned in to legends only, which doesn't help the playability of those units one bit. Also the chance of an overhaul of our models made by FW is near zero. So the perspective can be different I guess.

Yeah, which is the point of legends, if the models arent being produced anymore, they go to legends.

Hell, CSM got their deimos rhino go to legends and thats still in production.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Audustum wrote:
I can't take credit for noticing this first, but DG and TSons GAIN Bubonic/Arcana Astartes in addition to keeping Heretic Astartes but GK LOSE Adeptus Astartes to gain Sanctic Astartes.

it kinda makes sense, GK arent a classic chapter.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

No unit is "mandatory", except for maybe basic troops options. Just because something is good doesn't mean you absolutely have to have it. But every unit should have functional rules, and a drop pod that can't deploy its cargo when it arrives from deep strike isn't functional. Those of us who have Dreadclaws should have rules for them that work. The rules for CSM units have nothing to do with Grey Knights.

And don't worry about any CSM unit in this book being "too good", because gw went out of their way to make them all "just ok", right up to slapping a 1CP surcharge on most of them, which nobody else has to pay for their fw units except loyalists, who have plenty of options to use in their codex besides those in this book.

Troops aren't even mandatory honestly, my wraith host runs none :p

They didnt fix the damage on the Lastrum bolt cannons either. its supposed to be D2 since its a heavy bolter.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

Not allowing chaos to have T1 deep striking infantry might very well be intended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

No unit is "mandatory", except for maybe basic troops options. Just because something is good doesn't mean you absolutely have to have it. But every unit should have functional rules, and a drop pod that can't deploy its cargo when it arrives from deep strike isn't functional. Those of us who have Dreadclaws should have rules for them that work.

You know, technically you can play without troops, it's just that your army will usually suck when you do.

If GW has to balance DG around them deep striking 10 2W/T5/DR plague marines onto objectives before the enemy can move, the thing enabling that will be just as mandatory as troops.
We've already had an edition where playing stuff outside of your codex was mandatory for almost all, we don't need another one.

So should a drop pod be able to drop pod? Absolutely. But it definitely should be nowhere near a competitive option, as it will warp all armies with access to it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

Not allowing chaos to have T1 deep striking infantry might very well be intended.

Then they should have left the rules as they were. Dropping turn 2 or 3 and deploying the infantry or dreadnought is a lot better than dropping turn 1 and just sitting there while your opponent reacts.

I can agree with you on that.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

Not allowing chaos to have T1 deep striking infantry might very well be intended.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

No unit is "mandatory", except for maybe basic troops options. Just because something is good doesn't mean you absolutely have to have it. But every unit should have functional rules, and a drop pod that can't deploy its cargo when it arrives from deep strike isn't functional. Those of us who have Dreadclaws should have rules for them that work.

You know, technically you can play without troops, it's just that your army will usually suck when you do.

If GW has to balance DG around them deep striking 10 2W/T5/DR plague marines onto objectives before the enemy can move, the thing enabling that will be just as mandatory as troops.
We've already had an edition where playing stuff outside of your codex was mandatory for almost all, we don't need another one.

So should a drop pod be able to drop pod? Absolutely. But it definitely should be nowhere near a competitive option, as it will warp all armies with access to it.

so why can loyalists drop better units on turn 1 out of droppods than chaos?
My night lords dropping out of dreadclaws on turn one would be fluffy as hell, but i cant.

Because SM are still quintessentally drying up design space for other factions?

Member GSC? yeah their whole ambush stick etc, why bother, play Primaris instead, your'better off and get away cheaper.

Not healthy in the long run for GW and for faction stability but considering the 2-3 x more releases of primaris whilest the necrons got a whole other rework should speak volumes anyways.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I just want the one I own to have rules that function as intended. Sorry if that makes it "mandatory" for Death Guard.

It is a problem when every new DG players get informed on day one, that they need to buy a yet another book and a bunch of resin models, because otherwise their army is not going to work in an optimal way. Making FW an obligatory choice is both bad for those who do have to take such options, and for those who have no FW options or worse had their FW option put in to legends. Creates another divide between the haves and havenots, and I don't think w40k really needs more of those.

No unit is "mandatory", except for maybe basic troops options. Just because something is good doesn't mean you absolutely have to have it. But every unit should have functional rules, and a drop pod that can't deploy its cargo when it arrives from deep strike isn't functional. Those of us who have Dreadclaws should have rules for them that work.

You know, technically you can play without troops, it's just that your army will usually suck when you do.

If GW has to balance DG around them deep striking 10 2W/T5/DR plague marines onto objectives before the enemy can move, the thing enabling that will be just as mandatory as troops.
We've already had an edition where playing stuff outside of your codex was mandatory for almost all, we don't need another one.

So should a drop pod be able to drop pod? Absolutely. But it definitely should be nowhere near a competitive option, as it will warp all armies with access to it.

So because of Death Guard, Dreadclaws have to be bad for all of the other Legions as well? Loyalist drop pods have the same rules, not every Loyalist army uses drop pods. They're not mandatory for them, I don't see why they would be for CSM.