Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Jidmah wrote:
I know this has gone out of fashion, but I don't have to accept anything without proof. Which clearly no one can or wants to deliver.

A wiki article with official artwork and numerous sources listed has vastly more credibility than people on dakka ranting about their favorite model getting bad rules or a clearly outdated wiki whose only source on this topic is a 404 error.

I'm fully open to being convinced otherwise, but not by "I'm right, you're wrong, source: me". But considering where the world is heading, it's not unsurprising that people see being asked to provide sources for their claims as personal attacks, or as a reason to personally attack people.

People have given you quote, after quote on how a Dreadclaw (with sources) should be able to get its troops out of a pod as soon as it arrives, but your too focussed on cutting the corners and not accepting anything until you see fit that your right and all the other posters here are wrong.

And the only reason your having this argument is just so that you don't have to feel 'strongarmed' into taking Dreadclaws for your Plague Marines the same way you imply that you felt the need to use FW in 8th to 'complete' your codex/army.

So, what your saying is that because you can't be arsed with FW in your army, that means my Night Lords must be damnnned, which loved the Dreadclaw up until this release? Because that's what I've taken away from your points.

Anyho, now back to thread.

I'm honestly not bothered with this FW book. I was waiting for this book since there announcement and was honestly excited. I've been playing with FW since 7th ed. because My Night Lords revolve around not getting in bed with daemons and I love the NL contemptor model. To me it's the best model FW have made because it encapsulates what it means to be a Night Lord imo. I was excited to see Dark mech. since they kept hyping up the 227+ unknown Datasheets that they kept saying were going to be great and new, so I went with the flow.

Then:

- Why have my butcher cannons gone?
- Why have my Contemptors started paying CP?
- Why is there an heavy handed nerf in every unit I enjoyed?

Leviathans I get as well as the Butcher Cannon array. It was broke and needed fixing, I accept that.

But I don't accept paying £40 for a book which trashes all my favourite units, makes units I was going to buy, sent straight to Legends (Demois I'm looking at you) and force me to pay for datasheets in armies I'm never, ever going to use.

that. I'll just totally and legitimate grab a copy around. Totally and legitimately.

It's clear this is the line GW have made now that they just want you buying the plastics and not the resin which saddens me because I'll never be able to see the opportunity on using specialist weapons because GW can't be arsed making Volkite, Chainglaives, etc. to flesh out the Traitor Legions such as my Night Lords to give them the full flavour they should be using. GW would have owned my cash and my kidneys if they had made Dark mech as an army, but alas it looks like GW doesn't want my money there.

They had something at the end of 7th and something limping by in 8th. That's dead now.

as to the FAQ, same logic applies. They don't care and they want you buying the plastic which is why they're putting little to no effort with FW 40k books anymore.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
People have given you quote, after quote on how a Dreadclaw (with sources) should be able to get its troops out of a pod as soon as it arrives, but your too focussed on cutting the corners and not accepting anything until you see fit that your right and all the other posters here are wrong.

Uh, those sources were provided by me. But good job attacking me for no reason whatsoever.

 Jidmah wrote:

 The Warp Forge wrote:
People have given you quote, after quote on how a Dreadclaw (with sources) should be able to get its troops out of a pod as soon as it arrives, but your too focussed on cutting the corners and not accepting anything until you see fit that your right and all the other posters here are wrong.

Uh, those sources were provided by me. But good job attacking me for no reason whatsoever.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

When employed as a drop pod, the claws serve a different function, deploying after landing to right the Dreadclaw and raise its bulk off the ground in order to rapidly deploy its passengers without exposing the vehicle's vulnerable interior to enemy fire.

Unlike more conventional drop pods, the Dreadclaw is capable of taking off again after landing. Although less maneuverable in a planet's atmosphere than a purpose designed aircraft, it can be used to affect re-deployment in battle as well as perform rapid extractions to planetary orbit, a vital advantage given the raiding activities of many Chaos warbands.

Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines Of The Lost And The Damned: page 89. Emphasis mine.

Special rules:
Assault Vehicle
Deep Strike
Drop Pod Assault
Heat Blast
Daemonic Possession

Heat Blast has two profiles: Deep Strike and Fire Sweep. Deep Strike being a flamer type attack that hits everything within 3+d3 with a S6 AP5 hit with no cover saves, vehicles being hit on their weakest armour value, taking effect immediately after the model deploys using the Deep Strike rule. That's how Dreadclaws use their melta-cutters and engines to clear the landing area on arrival.

That's how Dreadclaws functioned previously: exactly like a conventional drop pod, with the addition of the Heat Blast (Deep Strike) rule. Then they function as Flyer with Hover Mode (which starts off as hovering after it has arrived from Deep Strike). It is possible that this has been changed for balance reasons, or they just worded the rules incorrectly.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

When employed as a drop pod, the claws serve a different function, deploying after landing to right the Dreadclaw and raise its bulk off the ground in order to rapidly deploy its passengers without exposing the vehicle's vulnerable interior to enemy fire.

Unlike more conventional drop pods, the Dreadclaw is capable of taking off again after landing. Although less maneuverable in a planet's atmosphere than a purpose designed aircraft, it can be used to affect re-deployment in battle as well as perform rapid extractions to planetary orbit, a vital advantage given the raiding activities of many Chaos warbands.

Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines Of The Lost And The Damned: page 89. Emphasis mine.

Special rules:
Assault Vehicle
Deep Strike
Drop Pod Assault
Heat Blast
Daemonic Possession

Heat Blast has two profiles: Deep Strike and Fire Sweep. Deep Strike being a flamer type attack that hits everything within 3+d3 with a S6 AP5 hit with no cover saves, vehicles being hit on their weakest armour value, taking effect immediately after the model deploys using the Deep Strike rule. That's how Dreadclaws use their melta-cutters and engines to clear the landing area on arrival.

That's how Dreadclaws functioned previously: exactly like a conventional drop pod, with the addition of the Heat Blast (Deep Strike) rule. Then they function as Flyer with Hover Mode (which starts off as hovering after it has arrived from Deep Strike). It is possible that this has been changed for balance reasons, or they just worded the rules incorrectly.

Makes sense

Thanks for being the only person to actually provide anything to this debate.

Basically, as you see, there's no reason for it to not be able to do the same as any other drop pod...

Except GW beeing on a GW tour OF GW'ing rules...

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jidmah wrote:

 The Warp Forge wrote:
People have given you quote, after quote on how a Dreadclaw (with sources) should be able to get its troops out of a pod as soon as it arrives, but your too focussed on cutting the corners and not accepting anything until you see fit that your right and all the other posters here are wrong.

Uh, those sources were provided by me. But good job attacking me for no reason whatsoever.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

When employed as a drop pod, the claws serve a different function, deploying after landing to right the Dreadclaw and raise its bulk off the ground in order to rapidly deploy its passengers without exposing the vehicle's vulnerable interior to enemy fire.

Unlike more conventional drop pods, the Dreadclaw is capable of taking off again after landing. Although less maneuverable in a planet's atmosphere than a purpose designed aircraft, it can be used to affect re-deployment in battle as well as perform rapid extractions to planetary orbit, a vital advantage given the raiding activities of many Chaos warbands.

Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines Of The Lost And The Damned: page 89. Emphasis mine.

Special rules:
Assault Vehicle
Deep Strike
Drop Pod Assault
Heat Blast
Daemonic Possession

Heat Blast has two profiles: Deep Strike and Fire Sweep. Deep Strike being a flamer type attack that hits everything within 3+d3 with a S6 AP5 hit with no cover saves, vehicles being hit on their weakest armour value, taking effect immediately after the model deploys using the Deep Strike rule. That's how Dreadclaws use their melta-cutters and engines to clear the landing area on arrival.

That's how Dreadclaws functioned previously: exactly like a conventional drop pod, with the addition of the Heat Blast (Deep Strike) rule. Then they function as Flyer with Hover Mode (which starts off as hovering after it has arrived from Deep Strike). It is possible that this has been changed for balance reasons, or they just worded the rules incorrectly.

Yes, how dare I not accept the facts posted after my posts...

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jidmah wrote:

 The Warp Forge wrote:
People have given you quote, after quote on how a Dreadclaw (with sources) should be able to get its troops out of a pod as soon as it arrives, but your too focussed on cutting the corners and not accepting anything until you see fit that your right and all the other posters here are wrong.

Uh, those sources were provided by me. But good job attacking me for no reason whatsoever.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

When employed as a drop pod, the claws serve a different function, deploying after landing to right the Dreadclaw and raise its bulk off the ground in order to rapidly deploy its passengers without exposing the vehicle's vulnerable interior to enemy fire.

Unlike more conventional drop pods, the Dreadclaw is capable of taking off again after landing. Although less maneuverable in a planet's atmosphere than a purpose designed aircraft, it can be used to affect re-deployment in battle as well as perform rapid extractions to planetary orbit, a vital advantage given the raiding activities of many Chaos warbands.

Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines Of The Lost And The Damned: page 89. Emphasis mine.

Special rules:
Assault Vehicle
Deep Strike
Drop Pod Assault
Heat Blast
Daemonic Possession

Heat Blast has two profiles: Deep Strike and Fire Sweep. Deep Strike being a flamer type attack that hits everything within 3+d3 with a S6 AP5 hit with no cover saves, vehicles being hit on their weakest armour value, taking effect immediately after the model deploys using the Deep Strike rule. That's how Dreadclaws use their melta-cutters and engines to clear the landing area on arrival.

That's how Dreadclaws functioned previously: exactly like a conventional drop pod, with the addition of the Heat Blast (Deep Strike) rule. Then they function as Flyer with Hover Mode (which starts off as hovering after it has arrived from Deep Strike). It is possible that this has been changed for balance reasons, or they just worded the rules incorrectly.

Yes, how dare I not accept the facts posted after my posts...

I accidentally ninjaed you
my bad.

Hum may i ask what's the purpose of a transport comming in t1 but unloading t2 from game design perspective and how it fits the miniature it represents?

I think it's the whole question here.

From a compétitive perspective nothing refrain me from loading it with fearless powalkers and take early objectives
It's not optimal but it is something.

So point 1 rules design is bad for whatever reason and point 2 there is a mistake Somewhere and they should fonction as a fancy drop pod.

agony.deluxe wrote:
Hum may i ask what's the purpose of a transport comming in t1 but unloading t2 from game design perspective and how it fits the miniature it represents?

Non, hence why you don'0t really see transports, except those that can either be shot out off or are like the droppods / some primaris transport that can instantly let the passengers drop out.

I think it's the whole question here.

From a compétitive perspective nothing refrain me from loading it with fearless powalkers and take early objectives
It's not optimal but it is something.

So point 1 rules design is bad for whatever reason and point 2 there is a mistake Somewhere and they should fonction as a fancy drop pod.

It's GW, non functional rules are par of the course, sadly.

agony.deluxe wrote:

From a compétitive perspective nothing refrain me from loading it with fearless powalkers and take early objectives
It's not optimal but it is something.

If it's just taking an objective early you could do that without loading it.
Of course with the unit inside I guess if it get's blown up I guess you'd then still have a unit on the objective....

agony.deluxe wrote:
Hum may i ask what's the purpose of a transport comming in t1 but unloading t2 from game design perspective and how it fits the miniature it represents?

The ability to place a unit anywhere to the board (more than 9" from the enemy) safely on Turn 1 within a protective shell while also having it off the board if your opponent goes first is not "useless". It's just not what the other Drop Pod does.

 alextroy wrote:

agony.deluxe wrote:
Hum may i ask what's the purpose of a transport comming in t1 but unloading t2 from game design perspective and how it fits the miniature it represents?

The ability to place a unit anywhere to the board (more than 9" from the enemy) safely on Turn 1 within a protective shell while also having it off the board if your opponent goes first is not "useless". It's just not what the other Drop Pod does.

It telegraphs your deployment and allows your opponent to react knowing what you're going to do without giving you the chance to attack. Drop the pod, the other guy gets to crack the pod/kill the units before you have a chance to do anything with them. It's barely better than deploying them on the table would be.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

agony.deluxe wrote:
Hum may i ask what's the purpose of a transport comming in t1 but unloading t2 from game design perspective and how it fits the miniature it represents?

The ability to place a unit anywhere to the board (more than 9" from the enemy) safely on Turn 1 within a protective shell while also having it off the board if your opponent goes first is not "useless". It's just not what the other Drop Pod does.

It telegraphs your deployment and allows your opponent to react knowing what you're going to do without giving you the chance to attack. Drop the pod, the other guy gets to crack the pod/kill the units before you have a chance to do anything with them. It's barely better than deploying them on the table would be.

yeah, if my opponent ever does something like that it's just gonna give me two squads for free when i surround the pod and kill it, also killing its content.

So you are going to let your opponent dictate your actions? That's a recipe for defeat if your opponent knows wha he is doing.

 alextroy wrote:
So you are going to let your opponent dictate your actions? That's a recipe for defeat if your opponent knows wha he is doing.

No, i'm saying that this strategy would not be a good one against my armies and if my opponent chooses to try it, they would be the one that would be negatively impacted the most from it.