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 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
The issue with the face is similar to that of the Banshee Exarch, which Gareth Nicholas presented a more feminine paint job to great effect...

https://garethnicholasblog.wordpress.com/2020/01/06/howling-banshee-exarch/

...which is in contrast to the GW paint job...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/d1sykk/new_ynnari_banshee_exarch/

The difference is staggering. Cannot wait to see what other people manage to do with Lelith.

Ditto. I like the GW paint job on that model, but Gareth's blows it out of the water. I feel like the 'Eavy Metal team is trying to... overcompensate? And paint in more dramatic detail than is actually there. Maybe they have just painted so much for so long their perspective is metaphorically jaded.

I do feel a common problem with ‘Eavy Metal paint jobs is that they seem to be more about showing off the technical abilities and fine detail control of the painters than it is about actually looking *good*.

A lot of the issues with GW paint jobs could be avoided imo if they actually focused more on the aesthetics than how awesome they are at highlighting...

I suspect a lot of it's to do with 'selling' the detail of the model, which means an absurd amount of highlights and often very bright palettes. It's likely why the Death Guard paint jobs are so clean and tidy aside from the tentacles and I get the impression the Forge World painters have been 'encouraged' to do something similar, comparing the Night Lord art/models in Crusade to older offferings.

Lord Zarkov wrote:
I do feel a common problem with ‘Eavy Metal paint jobs is that they seem to be more about showing off the technical abilities and fine detail control of the painters than it is about actually looking *good*.

A lot of the issues with GW paint jobs could be avoided imo if they actually focused more on the aesthetics than how awesome they are at highlighting...

From all the interviews I've heard, the job of the 'Eavy Metal painters is to emphasis the details of the models. That's why they are so into edge highlighting on every single edge of the model. It is also why they tend to use bright colors. They want you to see all the details that are there.

Remember when they released the Bullgor models and every single crevice was marked out in contrast?

Wouldn't surprise me if they went over board again.

So maybe there is some hope for poor ol Lilly, then?

SamusDrake wrote:
So maybe there is some hope for poor ol Lilly, then?

I think there is. I have been consistently surprised how many models are previewed by GW followed by, 'Gasp! It is the worst thing ever!' (I'm exaggerating, calm down you lot). Only later to hear, 'It isn't nearly as bad in person.' I think this is a very good case for that.

The extreme close up photography and angle aren't doing the preview picture a lot of favors. I think the even the dark color of the armor is contributing to a more flat, and therefor, bulkier appearance that really isn't there. Finally, I don't think the 'eavy metal paint style is helping the preview model any. In fact, I am starting to believe that as a style starting to show what figures it doesn't work well with. At extreme close up at very least anyways.

I think once this model starting getting in the hands of real people the choir about it will be much quieter with murmurs of, 'It looks better in person.' I have seen this time and time again here and the wider internet with a number of models over the last few years. To be sure, there will still be complainers, many of which don't really like anything different for what existed in the first year they played 40k. I suspect most will go quiet or redirect their disdain on the next set of model previews to also complain about.

I think we should be celebrating yet another Finecast model purged from the GW inventory. There are still way too many for current year, but one less is one less.

 BertBert wrote:
Proportions will probably remain an issue. Take Yvraine and the dark elf SoS as an example of lithe arena fighters. GW can do this properly, so the question remains why they thought Lelith should look like an MMA fighter instead. It's baffling, really.

"Here's an arena fighter"

*presents ballgown*

Errr...

She is powerful now! She’s been murder knows how long? Over time she’d develop muscle. Get on board with it and stop body shaming her

Well, there's Poe's Law making its appearance.

Catulle wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Proportions will probably remain an issue. Take Yvraine and the dark elf SoS as an example of lithe arena fighters. GW can do this properly, so the question remains why they thought Lelith should look like an MMA fighter instead. It's baffling, really.

"Here's an arena fighter"

*presents ballgown*

Errr...

I highligted the relevant part for you.

I'd say the old one looks better. It just feels better looking at them side to side. I appreciate the plastic upgrade and if you got it in finecast, well I'd go with the plastic one but honestly I think its a bad call to not bring back an old sculpt with a new redesign. Even if I do appreciate the retiring of a finecast kit with plastic as a good thing.

Prefer the old one(s), but still might get the new one.

In my personal opinion the more muscular built on the new one looks good, but it does not fit the image I have of a lean, athletic Eldar. For a human pit fighter the body would be more adequate.

The front foot looks a little strange, maybe a little too heroic.

And the face... well tastes differ, but if I was building and painting this model as Lelith I would use a different face, because her battle grimace does not fit with my personal imagination of the queen of blades: "The crowd hushed at the very sight of her beauty and elegance" (Codex: Dark Eldar (3rd Edition)) is defintely not what I see in the new model.

She looks strong, healthy and full of energy (only german trash tv fans may know the phrase...)

I hoped for something more spectacular. It's just a plastic remake of the finecrap model. Comparing her to the new slaanesh archers, there's much room for improvement.
(I have a softspot for combat-heels - would have liked to see lelith rockin' those...)

So out of curiosity, I showed the pics of old and new to Mrs. Tycho to get a woman's perspective (I told her none of my persona; feelings and she saw only the models and not the thread). She said she felt like the old one was Lilith in her early 20's full of life and hope and the new one is her 30/40 years later working as a Waffle House server after her dreams have been crushed. lol

Seriously though, I do wonder about the camera angle/lens combination. There's a fair bit of distortion on some of the newer model shots that surprises me. The original Inceptors come to mind for example. The ones with the "blast shield" down look stupid in real life and the photos, but the orginals looked bad and chunky to me in the pics, and look great IRL so mayber there is some hope.

I think the thing that makes me say "old one" is probably the absurd amount of hair. I greatly dislike GWs trend of giving so many models, both recently and old, so much long hair, seriously. I can't help but think that having that much of an mane would be rather stupid in basically any combat situation. And this is no exception. Sure, the old model already had ridiculously long hair, but still, I felt it was appropriate, especially for an arrogant arena fighter.
But the new hair is just... feels just waaaaaay too much.

 Lum wrote:
I think the thing that makes me say "old one" is probably the absurd amount of hair. I greatly dislike GWs trend of giving so many models, both recently and old, so much long hair, seriously. I can't help but think that having that much of an mane would be rather stupid in basically any combat situation. And this is no exception. Sure, the old model already had ridiculously long hair, but still, I felt it was appropriate, especially for an arrogant arena fighter.
But the new hair is just... feels just waaaaaay too much.

its part of her fluff tho... shes purposefuly fighting with a disadvantage to show off how good she is (long hair, little armor, barefoot). She even uses her hair as a weapon.

Me thinks she accidentally took the Combat Drug that was full of testosterone...

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Lum wrote:
I think the thing that makes me say "old one" is probably the absurd amount of hair. I greatly dislike GWs trend of giving so many models, both recently and old, so much long hair, seriously. I can't help but think that having that much of an mane would be rather stupid in basically any combat situation. And this is no exception. Sure, the old model already had ridiculously long hair, but still, I felt it was appropriate, especially for an arrogant arena fighter.
But the new hair is just... feels just waaaaaay too much.

its part of her fluff tho... shes purposefuly fighting with a disadvantage to show off how good she is (long hair, little armor, barefoot). She even uses her hair as a weapon.

Have we got a running tally of how many times this has been brought up through people not reading the bloody thread?

Seriously, for all of the mini's faults- that is not one. Read the thread people!

Well no, it still is a fault. There's "I do this as a handicap," and then there's "my hair is three feet tall and 8 feet long."

It's like the difference between an ork having a big gun because "big gunz is betta!" and an ork having a gun the size of a knight because "big gunz is betta!"

The hair on the old model is just about credible. The hair on the new model is into dumb territory.

And they clearly weren't caring much about her lore in general, given the thicker appearance and the extra armor they loaded her up with.

 Max Moray wrote:
Prefer the old one(s), but still might get the new one.

In my personal opinion the more muscular built on the new one looks good, but it does not fit the image I have of a lean, athletic Eldar. For a human pit fighter the body would be more adequate.

The front foot looks a little strange, maybe a little too heroic.

And the face... well tastes differ, but if I was building and painting this model as Lelith I would use a different face, because her battle grimace does not fit with my personal imagination of the queen of blades: "The crowd hushed at the very sight of her beauty and elegance" (Codex: Dark Eldar (3rd Edition)) is defintely not what I see in the new model.

I think her face it's not as bad as it seems it's just the black lips wich looks like she's angry while a bit less shade in the eyebrows and a more toned down lip colour may turn her face into something less extreme.

If they wanted to go snarling face, while sorta out of character since Lelith is supposed to be always composed and arrogant, there was an angle to explore. Lelith is supposed to be the most beautiful Dark Eldar there is. Make her snarling and monstrous to show that Dark Eldar standards of beauty are completely alien to us little human, yet her face looks very human and you could guess that without it she would look just like any other "pretty elf model". That's another case of mist opportunity and poor work. I'm tarting to think they tasked a bunch of "junior" scupltor to make her model while the good ones were busy with AoS models. I sure hope she isn't the only Dark Eldar model to be released with their new dex, but knowing GW she will.

Honestly asking, can a talented person cut her feet to make her more aquiline? Or is the model beyond hope? Otherwise she would make a great board piece for a arena display I am making!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Honestly asking, can a talented person cut her feet to make her more aquiline? Or is the model beyond hope? Otherwise she would make a great board piece for a arena display I am making!

if you really feel like the feet are too big, i'd say cutting them off then pinning some regular ones from wyches could probably work.

I think the model is really striking but the face is so....it's like a roaring ork face, I don't know where they were going with it. Her old look was way more intimidating and "in keeping with her style". Calm, determined, professional killer. The new face just isn't intimidating, it's ugly.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think the model is really striking but the face is so....it's like a roaring ork face, I don't know where they were going with it. Her old look was way more intimidating and "in keeping with her style". Calm, determined, professional killer. The new face just isn't intimidating, it's ugly.

99% sure that its the paintjob that does this.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think the model is really striking but the face is so....it's like a roaring ork face, I don't know where they were going with it. Her old look was way more intimidating and "in keeping with her style". Calm, determined, professional killer. The new face just isn't intimidating, it's ugly.

99% sure that its the paintjob that does this.

I would like to see some variant paint jobs, I can't wait to see where they take it. That being said she's not going to be available outside the special box set for at least a while, so we may not see those variants for a while.

I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

Tycho wrote:
So out of curiosity, I showed the pics of old and new to Mrs. Tycho to get a woman's perspective (I told her none of my persona; feelings and she saw only the models and not the thread). She said she felt like the old one was Lilith in her early 20's full of life and hope and the new one is her 30/40 years later working as a Waffle House server after her dreams have been crushed. lol

Seriously though, I do wonder about the camera angle/lens combination. There's a fair bit of distortion on some of the newer model shots that surprises me. The original Inceptors come to mind for example. The ones with the "blast shield" down look stupid in real life and the photos, but the orginals looked bad and chunky to me in the pics, and look great IRL so mayber there is some hope.

It's the nasolabial folds (those folds/creases to the sides of the mouth). They become more pronounced with aging in humans. The new Lelith has more pronounced folds, possibly as a result of the painting as well as the facial expression, so she looks older.

 BertBert wrote:
I think the box art is pretty revealing. Seems like they did purposefully redesign Lelith after all. She is huge:

You do know that Eldar and Dark Eldar are like 7 feet tall right? They look gen 1 SM in the eye. I do think it's hilarious that a SoB is holding her arm though. If their book strength is real, then Lelith should be able to literally rip her in half.

They can make her look like an enraged middle aged trailer park meth queen if they want to, if i were a DE player (The LAST 40k army i'd run.) i'd use an older mini or a custom one converted from another female DE.