Old Lelith or New Lelith?

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**alextroy**

I like the new Lelith. It seems to me that most of the criticisms of the model come are actually an optical illusion caused by the larger picture and the change in pose. The picture is larger so everything looks off when you compare the pictures side-by-side. Also, her new pose has her shoulders spread out a bit more and her chest pushed outward, emphasizing her bust (which isn't really that big). Her foot looks large, but again we are dealing with a larger scale picture with that feature being farther forward. I guess we will see if I am right when he 360 becomes available.

As for the face, we seem to have gone from disdain to contempt. A more active emotion. I guess that comes from hanging with he Ynnari.

**yukishiro1**

But that's the point. If you choose a pose that when photographed head-on makes her look like a hobbit by emphasizing her massive left foot and compressing her legs so they look shorter than her arms, that's a bad pose. Whether or not there's another angle that looks more natural. The weird 3 foot tall hair also contributes to the hobbit factor. It's just a bunch of really weird artistic choices that all work together to make her look short and squat, which is the last thing you should be going for with that character.

**BaconCatBug**

This is why turntable shots are important, but there are reasons why they don't seem to be providing them anymore.

**Amishprn86**

Old for 100% sure, the new model is terrible.

**alextroy**

BaconCatBug wrote:
This is why turntable shots are important, but there are reasons why they don't seem to be providing them anymore.

We will get it at the normally appointed time, at model preorder. They love to keep us waiting for more.

**Wyldhunt**

I will say that someone in one of the DE facebook groups posted a bunch of screenshots from the video they released. When she's facing left (stage right), the overall effect is much nicer.

So while there's room for improvement, I think we'll all be a bit happier once we've seen her from more angles/in person. She definitely wouldn't be the first GW model that looked awful on the promo material and then turned out to actually be pretty neat.

That said, I probably won't be using her as actual Lelith; her expression is just too out of character for me. It would be cool if her bits lend themselves well to conversions.

**Grimskul**

The face alone makes me like the old model more. The newer one's grimace looks too mannish and ugly for someone who is supposed to be effortless in her ability to dance circles around most opponents.

It's the same problem that Fulgrim has with his model, where his in medias res yell makes it look like someone has put a hairdryer into his mouth.

**Wyldhunt**

The story that this sculpt tells me isn't that she's a hyper-skillful combatant whose movements make those of other wyches look clumsy. The story it tells me is that this wych has had a bad day, and she's lost her cool, and she's either about to die or about to win but only with desperate attacks that will leave her exhausted. If you set this model across from the generic succubus, which one looks more confident that they're about to win the fight? Or heck, put this Lelith across form the old Lelith. 5e Lelith will look like she's about to cut New Lelith to ribbons.

Edit: Maybe worth mentioning. I'd love the new Lelith expression on, say, a sister of battle or tons of other models. It's just very out of place on Lelith specifically.

**NinthMusketeer**

Lilith is specifically a character for which an alluring appearance is very important. She is supposed to be very pretty from a fluff point of view; it's part of her job. Further, the emotion expressed does not fit the character. That is why it is brought up so much, not because people are upset that 'ew a female model is ugly'. Eldar are supposed to be extremely thin compared to a human, which is why the thicker build comes up so much. If this were a human character the reaction to the body proportions would be very different.

**vipoid**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Lilith is specifically a character for which an alluring appearance is very important. She is supposed to be very pretty from a fluff point of view; it's part of her job. Further, the emotion expressed does not fit the character. That is why it is brought up so much, not because people are upset that 'ew a female model is ugly'.

I'd also say she's a model that really doesn't need a "dynamic" pose.

I'd much rather see something based on this:

**SamusDrake**

Opps, confused as to what page we were on.

**Wyldhunt**

@Vipoid:
I don't mind the dynamic pose (and love what they did with Jain Zar), but you're right. The old 3rd edition model kind of had that going for it. She *may* have been stabbing someone to death, but she had a lot of "majesty" baked into a relatively static pose.

**Sim-Life**

I'm so sick of "standing on one foot" poses. Like it was fine when they were metal and you could bend them back but hard plastic just result in breaks.

**Void__Dragon**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
New Sculpt is VASTLY better, and the people saying otherwise are stuck with their rose tinted glasses with that awful constipation face.

No, both kind of suck, new one is somehow worse, and I've never played a Dark Eldar game in my entire life.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jeff white wrote:
Why not scan and make new molds for plastic from the old model? New one sux. Old one was... better. But there must be a half dozen better 3rd party models that are better in every way.

This one is an easy win:
https://www.ragingheroes.com/a/s/products/asharah-tgg2-ve-sf

That looks like unwashed ass.

**vipoid**

Void__Dragon wrote:

jeff white wrote:
Why not scan and make new molds for plastic from the old model? New one sux. Old one was... better. But there must be a half dozen better 3rd party models that are better in every way.

This one is an easy win:
https://www.ragingheroes.com/a/s/products/asharah-tgg2-ve-sf

That looks like unwashed ass.

I think it looks great . . . and then my gaze reaches the legs.

**BertBert**

Maybe it's an issue with the perspective, but the new sculpt looks somewhat squat. Not exactly what I'd imagine a lithe and elegant killer to look like.

The face is also an atrocity, but sisters have already shown that this could be largely due to the studio paintjob.

Conclusion: need more pics, preferably on an unpainted model, to form a final opinion, but what I'm seeing does not make me happy.

**KidCthulhu**

I'm glad I got my 5th Ed Lelith in metal. Actually, I have the original too (in a box somewhere).

I'm not a fan of the new one. A lot of it is the face; it just changes the mood. Like others have more eloquently said before me, she doesn't look like a cold, aloof master-killer who carefully dissects her prey before they even realize they've been cut.

**VladimirHerzog**

Honestly, i really feel like the paintjob is the main reason its getting so much flak. Her muscles are as exxagerated as catachans which makes her look less lean like eldar usually are.
And her face look weird mostly because the brow and the folds beside her nose are too defined, and her lips are too dark.

change these and she will look much better imo.

**BrianDavion**

Grimoir wrote:
Methinks this Poll could be improved a bit

1) Old Lilith (Finecast)
2) Old Lilith (Plastic)
3) New Lilith (Plastic)
4) New Lilith (Finecast)
5) Both
6) Neither

And before some intrepid Internet Warrior mentions it .... Yeah I am aware that the "Old" Lilith isn't available in Plastic. And the New one isn't available in Finecast.

except thats a false choice. seriously, that's like endorsing a political party with a differant canidate during an election

**Golem2God**

I agree with most of the people's opinions in this thread. The new Hesperax model is not an Elf body type at least when going by traditional elves. And Eldar are supposed to be space elves.

The most surprising thing to me was that they made her bust, hips/thighs, & feet bigger than the previous model. Not close to the older sculpt, obviously larger to the point there is no mistaking it. She is now stocky like a female dwarf and not like a traditional lithe elven bodytype. And as "NinthMuskeeter" stated, if this was a human model then the thickness factor would not be a problem.

I say that anyone who likes the old sculpt of Hesperax get it while you can. For those that like this newer sculpt but hate the face at least there are other heads out there. If I ever, ever find this newer sculpt for a deal and buy it I'll be changing that head at the very least. And do some other tweaks depending on the conversion job I'm using it for. Though the older sculpt & the first sculpt are much more preferable in my eye.

Compared to the new Sigmar Slaanesh Mortals shown today I'll take any of them over this new Hesperax. Unless New Hesperax's body type is needed for a hobby project you are working on I say look into one of the Slaanesh mortals instead for conversion work.

**ArcaneHorror**

I like the old one better, but as was said before, I think that the positioning of the photo and the paintjob is what really mucks the look of the new one. The same thing happened when people didn't like the SoB heads, which again was largely due to how they were painted.

**epronovost**

I find this model particularly dissapointing when compared to the Succubus model which is actually a lot better in everything from armor deisgn to face even down to the pose. It's a bit ridiculous that the "queen of wytches" doesn't hold a candle to a regular Succubus. Sure Lelith cannot exactly stand out thanks to a fancy armor, but there is a certain lack of effort into her design. Plus, if the fine regal trait of a woman are difficult to produce and paint on a 3 centimeter tall model, why not give her back her half helmet from 3rd eddition back? Give it a sexy mascerade look and you just solve a problem right there.

**Charistoph**

Blackie wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Considering how limited the Dark Eldar range is, why not both?

Because she's a named character, you can only field one model. If she was a generic HQ like a succubus then yeah, why not both?

Sorry, I didn't quote what I was putting the question to.

The "Why not both?" was for rebuilding the line as well as adding something new, as evidenced by the next sentence talking about developers' time to help provide some context.

Really, the only reason to take both would be to use one for travel and competition and the other for things to change things up or be better a better looking leader for things like Kill Team, or if you're just a dedicated collector.

**amanita**

The two older versions (metal with mask and 1st barefoot version) are about a tie. The new sculpt is hideous. Does she have ork blood? Chunkiness is not a trademark of the Drukhari. That club foot and constipated countenance aren't cutting it. Yikes. That's a hard pass.

**tauist**

I like the old one better. The new one looks bad in the same way that plastic banshee exarch HQ (? not sure if shes an exarch, dont play eldar) looks bad, the pose is derpy and feels clumsy and departs too much from the established Jes Goodwin eldar look IMHO.. Too brazilian physique somehow, for lack of a better term, eldars have always had long skinny frame IIRC

Also, for someone being all about melee, that much hair is just looking for trouble.. unless its a toupee

**Grimtuff**

tauist wrote:

Also, for someone being all about melee, that much hair is just looking for trouble.. unless its a toupee

But once again, the hair being loose is part of her background. That is one thing they have got right and are consistent about. She is that skilled a fighter that she wears it loose (and no armour either, yet they have added armour to the new one...) as a way of goading her opponents in. It's a feature, not a bug.

**Phobos**

Old by a mile.

New looks fat with an ugly face. And that left foot, good grief.

Big hair is cool.

**Marin**

Old is much better, new one is more human that aeldar, it totally lacks elegacy.

**wuestenfux**

Marin wrote:
Old is much better, new one is more human that aeldar, it totally lacks elegacy.

Seconded.
Face of the new one is not Eldar like - looks more like a human.

**Bosskelot**

The amount of muscles are fine, and the "squat" appearance is just the perspective of the photo. People tend to forget that Eldar are fething JACKED, 7 foot tall murder machines made of nothing but muscle. Old Lelith is rockin' a mighty set of abs.

Where the sculpt falls apart is the right arm and the face. The face mainly because it doesn't fit her character in the slightest. The thing that sets Lelith apart is her completely stoic, calm and confident demeanour and that face sculpt does not capture that in the slightest. The right arm just looks unnatural and doesn't fit in with the rest of the pose and sets the entire silhouette and flow of the model off. I could actually deal with the face and overall model otherwise, but that right arm positioning actually ruins it.