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Gomezaddams wrote:

I think its more a case of who has the capital to buy something like Hasslefree - I see a few people have mentioned Crooked Dice and... I don't see it to be honest.

I dont think anyone in the UK is big enough - maybe Warlord... but its not there sort of thing.

Good point. Northstar maybe? They picked up the Copplestone line. There's aways the chance of an amateur with deep pockets...

parakuribo wrote:I can see Heresy since it has Kev's minis. Other than that, they're either parodies or nude, and I don't even think Steamforged would use the remaining ones for their monthly mini thing.

I love Heresy, but every time I hear from them it's about how they're out of money and need 400 pounds by Tuesday to pay the rent. I don't really think they can expand.

In the event of a surprise lottery win, it'd be tempting to pick up Hasslefree and Heresy, and keep Andy on as a sculptor.

How much would the HF moulds go for realistically? Is there some weird chain of custody for IP and what have you?

A bit OT, sorry: I have wondered why Andy at Heresy (not Kev as originally stated - oops) doesn't outsource his talents, or get a salaried position somewhere and keep HM (Heresy) ticking over on the side. Based on what I have seen on socials, any job would likely put him in a more financially stable position.

edited because I got the people mixed up.

I just can't see anyone really bothering to pick them up. Suppose it could always go to auction.

 Dysartes wrote:
In the event of a surprise lottery win, it'd be tempting to pick up Hasslefree and Heresy, and keep Andy on as a sculptor.

Could you buy Darkage from CMON too please?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

parakuribo wrote:I can see Heresy since it has Kev's minis. Other than that, they're either parodies or nude, and I don't even think Steamforged would use the remaining ones for their monthly mini thing.

I love Heresy, but every time I hear from them it's about how they're out of money and need 400 pounds by Tuesday to pay the rent. I don't really think they can expand.

Makes me wonder if they’re underpricing their models. When GW are noted for setting the high bar? Surely there’s wiggle room to enjoy a more comfortable profit margin whilst still coming in well under the industry leader, and therefore standard.

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:
How much would the HF moulds go for realistically? Is there some weird chain of custody for IP and what have you?

I would think twice before buying molds for the scooby doo gang, myself

IP can be parcelled up.

I don’t know if it’s a legal requirement or similar. But it is possible for the seller to say “sure, you can have Moulds A, B and C which are our most popular. But you have to also buy Moulds X, Y and Z which we sold one casting of five years ago”.

If a company goes under with debts still outstanding? The Official Receiver, or whatever they’re called these days will attempt to get the best price possible, so as many remnant debts can be settled.

Sometimes, creditors will only get pennies on the pound (so, 5p for every £1 owed as an example). But if the full amount can be raised? So much the better.

But I don’t think this applies if the company is closed down because “can’t be arsed anymore”.

Work wise I’m actually moving to an area which deals with this sort of thing, so in coming months I expect to be much more knowledgeable.

For now though? Please keep your salt at hand, as I’m only able to offer my best understanding, which is not that great in terms of details and nuance.

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

A bit OT, sorry: I have wondered why Kev doesn't outsource his talents, or get a salaried position somewhere and keep HM ticking over on the side. Based on what I have seen on socials, any job would likely put him in a more financially stable position.

He did. He's worked for GW for the last year or two (in SDS/forgeworld I think) , which is why Hasslefree was being run by Dameon and Sally, who both have pretty severe health conditions.

How much would the HF moulds go for realistically? Is there some weird chain of custody for IP and what have you?

It's really hard to say - as I've said earlier, scale is an issue.

I mean the two biggest lines had 200 models apiece, conservatively, and not including unreleased figures. So find a sculptor offering commission work with reproduction rights, and times that by that....

Warploque for example, charges £350 without production rights so... Yeah. You then don't have Kev, so you'd need to find traditional sculptors who can work in Kev's style, or digitise everything.

Northstar isn't a bad shout - they probably have the capital, and it'd compliment a lot of there games, it's just a very different style of miniature

Thanks for the insight, all!

pgmason wrote:

 Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

A bit OT, sorry: I have wondered why Kev doesn't outsource his talents, or get a salaried position somewhere and keep HM ticking over on the side. Based on what I have seen on socials, any job would likely put him in a more financially stable position.

He did. He's worked for GW for the last year or two (in SDS/forgeworld I think) , which is why Hasslefree was being run by Dameon and Sally, who both have pretty severe health conditions.

ah bugger I got Andy at Heresy mixed up with Kev - apologies!

IIRC Andy worked for GW and lost his job years ago leading to the formation of Heresy.

I don't know him, just from emails, but I always got the feeling Heresy was his baby and he's not interested in working for someone else.

Given that Hasslefree was a family business you'd also need to be sure that the reproduction rights came with the moulds, greens etc

it could well be nothing was formally put down on paper

and with Kev as the sculptor now at GW he wouldn't be in a position to 'sell' any rights that were not formally assigned when he stepped away from hasslefree in order to take up the GW job

If they were planning on phoenixing the company then they would have had to have got that down on paper by now so that they could transfer all those rights to the new firm.


The main risk as I see it is that they keep trying to resurrect the firm and pouring time and money into a never ending black-hole of never having enough to restart until they give up and just focus on living and the project dies a death and everything gets left in storage. Or worse gets dumped.

Fragmentation of a collection through auction can happen. You can get other issues too - eg when Wayland bought up Spartan Games; they got pallets of stuff that were just a jumble out of date tracking on what mould was what and so forth. Not to mention things that go missing in the process.



I think that within the market there's several groups that could put bids on to buy stuff; at the same time if it went to auction then they'd get what they'd get through the auction process (assuming they don't set an insanely high reserve). So you don't necessarily have to have super-deep pockets.

I think this thread has likely put more concrete effort overnight towards saving the sculpts and making backers at least partly whole than likely anyone at the fomer Hasslefree did since the last update.

I don't know him, just from emails, but I always got the feeling Heresy was his baby and he's not interested in working for someone else

He's a skilled experienced metal caster not far from Nottingham - there are plenty of jobs out there, including back with GW... he doesn't want to do that...

As for a lottery win, I don't think Andy would sell. There's quite a bit in the range that I imagine doesn't sell anymore, some stuff would be better scanned and sold digitally... yeah. I think if you told him that was the intention he'd walk away or want so much as for it to be largely pointless.

when Wayland bought up Spartan Games

Waylands a whole different beast. I suspect Wayland were expecting a largely plug and play affair, and when it was literally anything else, those plans went to pot.

Andy's always had his own way of doing things, if the search engine for the site worked I'd dig out the thread we had on the whole dragon thing, which was an interesting read on how he ran things, in his own words no less.

 BrookM wrote:
Andy's always had his own way of doing things, if the search engine for the site worked I'd dig out the thread we had on the whole dragon thing, which was an interesting read on how he ran things, in his own words no less.

This one? https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/669392.page

 Ruglud wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Andy's always had his own way of doing things, if the search engine for the site worked I'd dig out the thread we had on the whole dragon thing, which was an interesting read on how he ran things, in his own words no less.

This one? https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/669392.page

Yes, many thanks! Will have to re-read that wall of text at some point for sure.

I mean, I love Andy but he did forget about one of my orders for two years....

Heresy is semi-permanently on the brink of running out of money (personally I think the issue is that Heresy has lovely models, but you rarely need multiples or bulk orders. Nobody's building an army out of Heresy models)

Heresy has some great miniatures, but I always feel like I never have enough to justifying a order at a time I want :(

Often I go to reaper miniature since its selection is so huge I often have a big order so it feels more economical for me.

I've only ordered directly from Heresy once but it was a very pleasant experience. They even threw in a free mini to almost offset the price of shipping from UK to US. Granted this was pre-Brexit, but it was a nice gesture.

I hate current day politics; I just want my toy soldiers...

Yeah, as mentioned, ordered there two or so times, minis are alright, but not a place you'd buy in bulk or often due to what was on offer. YMMV obviously, but for me an awful lot did look dated.