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Just playing around with a few ideas in a list and I just stumbled upon something.

There are several ways to give a Custodes Character the ability to deny the witch.
The Stratagem Spark of Divinity lets you deny a power as if you were a psyker within 12".
The Impregnable Mind WLT also lets you deny a power as if you were a psyker, but adds +1 to your roll.
The Relic "Faith Absolute", again, lets you deny a power as if you were a psyker.

So can I actually deny 3 powers with the same charactermodel if I give it the WLT, the Relic and use the stratagem?
If so, do I add + 1 to each roll due to the WLT?

The wording:
Your Warlord can attempt to Deny the Witch once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases as if they were a PSYKER. When they do so, add 1 to the result of the Deny the Witch test..
its not exactly clear to me if it refers to this very specific instance of the test or if it refers to whenever you take a Deny the Witch test as if you were a psyker, which is the same as the other 2 instances.

It would be a lot of eggs in a single basket for sure, but in a Crusade that is not that much of a problem since you have as much WLT and Relics as you want.
And I face Harlequins...

Yes, you can deny three times, but you only get +1 to the deny roll for the warlord trait, because it only can be used once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases.

wouldnt that mean tho that the text of the WLT limits you to one DTW in the first place by the same logic? You can deny once.
If you can deny 3 times, it is still ambiguous as to what it refers to since the action and the wording is exactly the same between the 3 different abilities "as if they were a psyker"

Because it says when they do so it is referring to the specific ability and does not stack

If it said when they deny the witch it would stack because it would be specific to deny the witch tests not the specific instance

So you have two denys without a +1 and one with a +1

U02dah4 wrote:
Because it says when they do so it is referring to the specific ability and does not stack

If it said when they deny the witch it would stack because it would be specific to deny the witch tests not the specific instance

So you have two denys without a +1 and one with a +1

I agree with this reading.

So it is not as good as hoped, but still a pretty solid answer to psykers in a crusade game.

Gotcha.

I dont really follow that reasoning. Seems pretty clear that when you do deny the witch like a psycher you get a +1 to that deny attempt.

Spark of divinity lets you deny like a psycher and so does the relic, so you would definately get the +1.






Either way,

Custodes have a ton of ways to nueter the pyschic phase against them, however almost none of those ways are put into competitive lists because they suck against everything else.

If your list tailoring against psychers you will have no problem, but in a tourny you cant waste relic spots and WL traits or points (on SoS or wardens) to go anti-psycher.

The warlord traits +1 to the deny the witch test only affects the deny attempt by the warlord trait. It doesnt say you get +1 to all deny the witch tests during the psychic phase.

It literally says you get +1 to Deny the witch. It does not say you ONLY get +1 to one deny the witch.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
It literally says you get +1 to Deny the witch. It does not say you ONLY get +1 to one deny the witch.

Your Warlord can attempt to Deny the Witch once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases as if they were a PSYKER. When they do so, add 1 to the result of the Deny the Witch test.

It says the Deny the Witch test, which refers to the deny attempt by the warlord trait, which can only be used once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases. It doesnt say any/all Deny the Witch tests.

Seems like your inferring more than you need too.

Since they already told you that you only get to deny the witch once, why would they put a plural in any of the remaining sentence?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Seems like your inferring more than you need too.

Since they already told you that you only get to deny the witch once, why would they put a plural in any of the remaining sentence?

Because there are cases where they can get more than one, or this entire thread is pointless. Also, saying they get +1 on deny the witch rolls is just as easy to say and makes clear that they're not considering it for only the one roll mentioned.

This is once again a great example for learning about Sequencing. This faction casts X power, the opposing faction chooses to deny. They roll X, do this two more times. On the 3rd and final time, or any of the times before, they can choose to add 1 to the roll to deny. As far as Deny the witch goes, it's still relatively simple to figure out.

Sequencing has nothing to do with this. Its not two or more rules happening at the same time.

p5freak wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
It literally says you get +1 to Deny the witch. It does not say you ONLY get +1 to one deny the witch.

Your Warlord can attempt to Deny the Witch once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases as if they were a PSYKER. When they do so, add 1 to the result of the Deny the Witch test.

It says the Deny the Witch test, which refers to the deny attempt by the warlord trait, which can only be used once in each of your opponent's Psychic phases. It doesnt say any/all Deny the Witch tests.

Eihnlazer wrote:Seems like your inferring more than you need too.

Since they already told you that you only get to deny the witch once, why would they put a plural in any of the remaining sentence?

Seems like he is inferring what is there. If they wanted the rule to work with all Deny the Witch test the model takes, it shouldn't say "When they do so, add 1 to the result of the Deny the Witch test". It should say This model adds 1 to the result of Deny the Witch tests.

Language is more complex than that. It depends on the scope of the definite article, which is open to interpretation. THE roll for that particular test doesn't mean its THE only roll ever.

 Stux wrote:
Language is more complex than that. It depends on the scope of the definite article, which is open to interpretation. THE roll for that particular test doesn't mean its THE only roll ever.

Yes, but it would be more clear if they wrote add +1 to any/all deny the witch tests.

Looking at the entire forum, I'd say that is a agreeable point, but nothing to actually base an argument on. Because if they would write rules in a such a way, this forum would have half the topics