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 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

bat702 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Two new models is not a "complete new set of sculpts".

In 40k time, the whole army is really new, they basically got a whole new line-up when they released death guard in the start collecting box set

Those models came out...over 3. Years. Ago.

Exactly. So why didn't they make Death Guard "OP" back then? (And no, I'm not saying Death Guard are OP.)

I think maybe with the all the death guard start collecting box, there wud be so many on the second hand market, that it wasnt very smart to flush them out and make them all spicey and tastey and gak

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
On this ridiculous basis, I can't wait for the new Drukhari codex. It will have to be hugely 'overpowered' to shift that new Lelith Hesperax model.

Given the Dark Tech errata I'm suspecting a half baked cut and paste effort with the odd nerf, I'll be surprised if the points are right...

You're more pessemistic than I am, you need a pint

I actually expect a quite significant overhaul, based on what the playtesters have been hinting. But that in no way means that it will be any good at all. I'd be quite happy to see the back of the Dark Tech nonsense TBH.

I think there's maybe one known instance of GW purposefully making a new model overpowered, and that was back in 7th.

For the most part, though, I agree with those who say that GW just don't know their game well enough to consistently overpower new models, whatever their intention. I'm pretty sure we've already seen that the designers almost seem to be playing a different game to the rest of the world, so their opinions on whether a given unit is overpowered or not probably bear little resemblance to reality.


Removed

I can't think of any real evidence of GW making a unit overpowered to sell them. There is far too much randomness in how good units, both new and old, are to see anything like that. Personally, I think that they just don't have the level of understanding of the game and the competence to even pull off something like that.

No this is a stupid opinion that doesn't make sense, nor is it supported by evidence.

Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

Karol wrote:

GW called Voldus, or rather the triumvirate box to be specific, a "completly new set of models". That is one model who is actually GK.

karol ffs.... Guilliman, Voldus and Cypher in a single box were a "set" of models that didnt exist before, they were "new". So GW saying it was a "new set" of models was true. When someone says an army got a new set of models, they don't mean one box that had 3 factions in it.

Removed

Offending off-topic posts have been removed, please stick to the topic.

bat702 wrote:
Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

For once, no Marines are involved - it's a DE vs. SoB box.

For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

 Dysartes wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

For once, no Marines are involved - it's a DE vs. SoB box.

For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

It's a Strat that boosts all Plasma weapons in a unit to +1D. It's one of those dumb Strats that GW introduced that straight up offensive output with absolute zero thought.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

For once, no Marines are involved - it's a DE vs. SoB box.

For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

It's a Strat that boosts all Plasma weapons in a unit to +1D. It's one of those dumb Strats that GW introduced that straight up offensive output with absolute zero thought.

DA also lost their Weapons of the Dark Age so it seems like +1D strats are on their way into the bin.

Weapons from the Dark Age was in the old book. It was 1 CP. Now it is 2. Dark Angels weren't winning then with it so I'm not sure how it will be better other than being useful versus DG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

DA also lost their Weapons of the Dark Age so it seems like +1D strats are on their way into the bin.

No, it is still in.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

For once, no Marines are involved - it's a DE vs. SoB box.

For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

It's a Strat that boosts all Plasma weapons in a unit to +1D. It's one of those dumb Strats that GW introduced that straight up offensive output with absolute zero thought.

DA also lost their Weapons of the Dark Age so it seems like +1D strats are on their way into the bin.

Thought I saw someone in the Rumor thread claim it was back. If it isn't though, I say good riddance.

 Dysartes wrote:


For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

With Dark Technomancers you can choose to enhance any ranged weapons, adding 1 to the wound roll and add 1 to the Damage characteristic of that weapon for that attack. If any unmodified wound rolls of 1 are made for attacks with an enhanced weapon, the firing model suffers 1 MW after shooting with that weapon.

It is really strong, but the 'problem' with it (from my point of view) is that it is a Coven ability that undermines the internal balance of the codex, making Coven both the most resilent subfaction, and the shootiest.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No, it is still in.

It wasn't in their pre-codex update, is it back in the Codex Supplement preview?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Thought I saw someone in the Rumor thread claim it was back. If it isn't though, I say good riddance.

As somebody with a DA army, I'd be fine with it getting cut. It wasn't in their mini-update or the normal SM Codex so I figured GW would have axed it for the full supplement.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No, it is still in.

It wasn't in their pre-codex update, is it back in the Codex Supplement preview?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Thought I saw someone in the Rumor thread claim it was back. If it isn't though, I say good riddance.

As somebody with a DA army, I'd be fine with it getting cut. It wasn't in their mini-update or the normal SM Codex so I figured GW would have axed it for the full supplement.

Yea, video reviews are up.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
No, it is still in.

It wasn't in their pre-codex update, is it back in the Codex Supplement preview?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Thought I saw someone in the Rumor thread claim it was back. If it isn't though, I say good riddance.

As somebody with a DA army, I'd be fine with it getting cut. It wasn't in their mini-update or the normal SM Codex so I figured GW would have axed it for the full supplement.

Yea, video reviews are up.

Ah, I'm behind on this one then. I'll probably catch up on the new rules today at work if it's as slow as it usually is.

 harlokin wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
On this ridiculous basis, I can't wait for the new Drukhari codex. It will have to be hugely 'overpowered' to shift that new Lelith Hesperax model.

Given the Dark Tech errata I'm suspecting a half baked cut and paste effort with the odd nerf, I'll be surprised if the points are right...

You're more pessemistic than I am, you need a pint

I actually expect a quite significant overhaul, based on what the playtesters have been hinting. But that in no way means that it will be any good at all. I'd be quite happy to see the back of the Dark Tech nonsense TBH.

It's more a pessimistic outlook based on the erratic consistency of rules writing, as for paytesters I'd never trust anything out of them given how the majority are shill mouthpieces who'll flat out lie to protect their 'relationship ' with gw and it's impact on YouTube income

 Dysartes wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Well I mean atleast you can sell Lelith on the second hand market when all you pplz buy whatever marines they are peddling with her

For once, no Marines are involved - it's a DE vs. SoB box.

For any De players that happen to still be aboot, what's this Dark Tech thing y'all are talking about?

I mean you're half right, sisters are definitely half/marines, kind of like half-lings but with dwarven technology capable of felling a man once a 2-man team reloads that awesome crossbow

You are simply describing power creep. GW makes each codex stronger, sells more models, nerfs them 12 months later then revisits the codex 12 months after to buff them with new rules.

Does anyone actually think that DG (Besides Morty, who is for sure overtuned) are overpowered?

It feels like they have a solid matchup against marines, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that they are a super tier army.

Haven't had the chance to play against them yet due to Covid restrictions.

My impression is that they are on even footing with other 9th edition armies. Stratagems are very strong.

Mortarion is a problem for me. Too game warping at the moment. I need to see how people will tackle him in the future.

GW has now fully realized they kicked the competitive hornets nest. Bunch of nerds freaking out buying new armies every time the meta shifts since they didn't magnetize their toys. I've never seen as many armies on ebay or facebook marketplace than I have in the past year. Of course this is for sure partly due to a larger player base, but remember when IH got a lil nerf and nerds couldn't sit in their deployment for 3 turns and press the win button? There were like dozens of clone IH armies for sale all the sudden, literally the same exact armies people copy pasted from the latest tournament with varying stages of three color minimum paint jobs.

Eradicators are extremely powerful compared to their points and thats all you see in peoples lists, every list has eradicators. When the "multi-part" kit comes out (if monopose models with weapon options count as that) its going to be sold out for weeks. Scalpers will be listing them on ebay for double price (just like they did with eliminators). And then suddenly, when GW has had their fill, they'll pull the carpet out and slightly nerf eradicators whilst simultaneously buffing.....Idfk servo turrets? And the cycle will repeat itself.

I feel the target audience are the ones who want to stay on top of the meta at all times.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
GW has now fully realized they kicked the competitive hornets nest. Bunch of nerds freaking out buying new armies every time the meta shifts since they didn't magnetize their toys. I've never seen as many armies on ebay or facebook marketplace than I have in the past year. Of course this is for sure partly due to a larger player base, but remember when IH got a lil nerf and nerds couldn't sit in their deployment for 3 turns and press the win button? There were like dozens of clone IH armies for sale all the sudden, literally the same exact armies people copy pasted from the latest tournament with varying stages of three color minimum paint jobs.

Eradicators are extremely powerful compared to their points and thats all you see in peoples lists, every list has eradicators. When the "multi-part" kit comes out (if monopose models with weapon options count as that) its going to be sold out for weeks. Scalpers will be listing them on ebay for double price (just like they did with eliminators). And then suddenly, when GW has had their fill, they'll pull the carpet out and slightly nerf eradicators whilst simultaneously buffing.....Idfk servo turrets? And the cycle will repeat itself.

I feel the target audience are the ones who want to stay on top of the meta at all times.

Not every list has eradicators. There are plenty of marine options equivalent to them. The LVO Salamanders list has only 3 of them, sooo...

Also, just checking, but is a point increase considered a nerf these days? Because Eradicators got bumped already.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Haven't had the chance to play against them yet due to Covid restrictions.

My impression is that they are on even footing with other 9th edition armies. Stratagems are very strong.

Mortarion is a problem for me. Too game warping at the moment. I need to see how people will tackle him in the future.

This is my view as well. They stack up well against the other 9th edition dexes, and they are of course stronger than they were before. Are they going to do better than most every other 8th edition dex? Sure, but that's been the case for the other 9th dexes so far.

I think it's general consensus at this point that Morty is just too much. He's really the only thing I would expect nerfed. Everything else in the book seems incredibly balanced.

 Sasori wrote:
Does anyone actually think that DG (Besides Morty, who is for sure overtuned) are overpowered?

It feels like they have a solid matchup against marines, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that they are a super tier army.

there is a good chance they will get buffed, not many people collect dark eldar currently, so the promise of selling an entire army is real

The new lord is probably the weakest lord out of the ones available, and despite its rather decent rules the fortification is just as unplayable as all others due to the 3" rule.

The DG release is pretty clear evidence that GW doesn't know their game well enough to make new stuff OP.

There also isn't really a point in messing with the rules to sell models when you are having troubles keeping your product stocked.

 Jidmah wrote:
The new lord is probably the weakest lord out of the ones available, and despite its rather decent rules the fortification is just as unplayable as all others due to the 3" rule.

The DG release is pretty clear evidence that GW doesn't know their game well enough to make new stuff OP.

There also isn't really a point in messing with the rules to sell models when you are having troubles keeping your product stocked.

It's also evidence they can't even write rules reflect fluff. Remember when we were excited to see what the LoV would do, and it turned out he had nothing to do with Daemon Engines (gotta love the CORE rule!) and benefited basically only a select few weapons for squads? That was pretty hilarious not gonna lie.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Haven't had the chance to play against them yet due to Covid restrictions.

My impression is that they are on even footing with other 9th edition armies. Stratagems are very strong.

Mortarion is a problem for me. Too game warping at the moment. I need to see how people will tackle him in the future.

Bang on. Ignoring Mortarion it seems a well designed ary with lots of options (especially considering limited model range).

I was initially on the "Mortarion is too much" train - but I'm not so sure now. Even though he is like two knights stuck together, I think various armies can deal with him fairly reliably, in which case he can be a 490 point liability.

The issue is that Mortarion is a very hard skew against anyone with an army that can't deal with him. But then the same is arguably true of the Silent King. Or multiple Keepers of Secrets.

Certainly the mood is increasingly that Plague Marines - surely something of the poster boy for the faction - are quite mediocre if not bad. Mainly because they are either quite toothless - or you buy special weapons but they are now so expensive they cease to be tough.

I think GW are trying to make all the new codexes feel "good". Which is surely desirable. The issue is if the upgrades turn into explicit creep. I don't think DG is explicitly better than say Necrons, Marines - Sisters if you say they are really a 9th edition codex.