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 GaroRobe wrote:
Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.

1. That's a nob, not a boy, in a heroic pose, modeled after a classic picture. There also is a coat covering the parts in question.
2. A very similar ork can be found on the squigbuggy (the one holding the squiglauncher), sticking out his but like all the others.
3. Just like the model you posted, new boyz would have no extra bits, no options to pose them, and no interchangeability with all the other plastic kits.
4. The kit will definitely have less sprues and will cost more.
5. The average ork player would have to spend at least $360 to update the look of a single run-of-the-mill ork battalion, and that's already assuming GW doesn't pull any stunts to make it even more expensive. Is there a single person on this thread complaining about boyz willing to make that investment?

The actual reason for the butt jutt is so the ball socket can be cast in one piece.

 GaroRobe wrote:
This is the most recent Ork boy GW has released.



Compared to the "current" ork look

Spoiler:

Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.

Some of the newest ork models with the gorilla posture are the new black orc blood bowl team. They still have that posture but just not as exaggerated as the old orkz.

For reference:

Proper orks should stand straight and tall?

Who or what ever gave anyone that idea?

They are not elves.

Indeed. There's a lot of talk about "improving" the pose, but that presumes they need to be improved - I like the Nelson gorilla pose, I like that GW Orks/Orks aren't just "slightly bigger than human green bodybuilders with tusks" like everywhere else outside of Tolkien.

And Jidmah has the fundamental point of it all: for all that people might mump and moan about them, how many would be willing to rebuy their entire army from scratch?

Redoing "core" kits makes sense for exactly two reasons:

1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.

2. As part of a deliberate decision to alter the visual style of the entire faction.

Modern GW kits can be impressive, but not IMO to the point it justifies replacing perfectly functional plastic kits(especially in ranges that aren't yet entirely plastic, in an era where things not being plastic often means they go away entirely - there are better things to use those production slots on). In many cases it's even questionable whether the "improvements" of modern kits actually qualify as such; unique and highly distinctive poses work great for units you need one, maybe two squads of but when you want 50, 60, a hundred models? It looks silly. And as for point 2, how many people really want them to redesign the Orks? I'd wager not many.

 Jidmah wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Cynista wrote:
Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.

Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.

Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/03/gorilla-walking-upright-bipedal-philadelphia-zoo-spd/

And yes, you are right, he doesn't actually do that all the time.

Lol that Gorilla has a more upright posture than the current Boyz do

I will admit I am old and am partial to the RT era orks, but the new orks do a good job of avoiding the too much silliness if RT era but looking much better posture/silhouette wise. I could see why one wouldn’t want new boys ($$$), but to me there is not much positive to say about the aesthetics of the current boys kit. To some they are “vintage” but to me they just look out dated. Other old plastic kits have held up better. The plastic guardians, though in exciting, fit much better with more modern miniatures for example.

 Yodhrin wrote:


1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.

Problem is GW's idea of "additional value" is giving you great sculpts but at the cost of jacking up the cost of the kit and rejiggering the rules to make the new kit the bestiest mostest kit you'll ever need.

Be careful what you wish for....


Knowing GW they'll be redone as Orkks(tm) note the 2 k's to differentiate between plebian or and...

Either/Or wrote:
I will admit I am old and am partial to the RT era orks, but the new orks do a good job of avoiding the too much silliness if RT era but looking much better posture/silhouette wise. I could see why one wouldn’t want new boys ($$$), but to me there is not much positive to say about the aesthetics of the current boys kit. To some they are “vintage” but to me they just look out dated. Other old plastic kits have held up better. The plastic guardians, though in exciting, fit much better with more modern miniatures for example.

The thing is, boyz, lootas, burnas, warbikers and many vehicle crews are the exact same sculpt. Not just similar, but the very same ork, with the very same ball joint torsos attached to the very same pair of legs.

If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.

 Jidmah wrote:

If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.

Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.

 Crimson wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.

Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.

The AOS "orruks" are a bad joke, and I struggle to believe many people who actually play and like Orks want the whole range replaced with soulless miniHulks.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.

Can I? That new "ork" is basically the Hulk doing cosplay (even moreso in the case of the AoS new sculpts). I'd rather have orks that aren't buff humans painted green, thank you very much.

 Crimson wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.

Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.

So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?

40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.

For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?

My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.

 Jidmah wrote:

So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?

40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.

For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?

My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.

I replaced my entire marine army with primaris.

But it's not like you have to do that; you can use old models along with the new ones. Clinging to decades old visual continuity that shackles the army to looking terrible is a bad idea, I'm really glad they pulled off that bandaid with the marines and they should do that with the other armies as well. If GW had not done that in the past, you would still be stuck with the second edition era looking orks.

For me the ideal look for orks should be like the new blood bowl black orc team.

Funny thing, I actually like the wacky 2nd edition orks. I'm even printing myself some of those for Epic.



The original Ghazghkull Thraka is still IMHO much better than the two newest incarnations.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.

Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.

So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?

40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.

For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?

My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.

Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.

 Altruizine wrote:
Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.

What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.

 Yodhrin wrote:

1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.

Except gw　has went with monopose with　new kits. So were　ork　boyz come you would have 10 boyz in 10 poses. Buy 10 boxes　and　10 different pose 10 times.

Times of multipose　is over. Time of monopose is here.

New AoS Savage Orruk for Underworlds -

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.

What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.

It's difficult to answer this for a number of reasons.

Firstly, your number seems off (or exaggerated). Using the Canadian prices, because those are what load for me: a box of Ork Boyz costs $45 while most other, newer 10-model troop boxes cost $55. If that pricing carried through to a refreshed Boyz kit, an Ork player would basically be paying +1$ per Boy. Using the figure of 200 Boyz to satisfy your requirement of "creating an army" that means a new player, subject to that projected price increase, would be paying +200$ compared to someone today. That does not double the cost of the army. Unless you want to try to claim that there's a bunch of invisible math behind your position, and you've mentally established that a prototypical Ork army already costs ~180% of "any other army" meaning that that additional $200 would bring it to a clean "double what it costs" for everyone else.

Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).

Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.

What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.

This is the real rub. I've been toying with picking up an ork army and as much as I would love new sculpts, I have no interest in paying primaris prices for a troop I'm gonna need 10-15+ boxes of.

beast_gts wrote:
New AoS Savage Orruk for Underworlds -

Spoiler:

The rumour engine image in the article looks like something that would maybe make a weirdboy. Maybe finally a plastic weridboy (but you need to buy a full underworlds team to get him).

EDIT: Underworlds, not BB

As far as a new range of sculpt goes all I can say is that I've played and collected my army over 20ish years and have Zero interest in a complete refresh of existing units. Count me out.
If GW wants to do that I hope that the Orks I know get squatted for something new. GW can pass it off as evolution or something.
As far as selling the existing product. That's easier, just release a good codex.
I only buy models I like and as such have completely passed on the last two rounds of Ork models. And if the current trend of , what ever it is these designers are doing continues as I suspect it will them I guess my collection is complete. I look forward to a new codex and cards. If not hat I'll just retire them to older editions. I do hope GW drops something truly magical that gets me excited about my Orks again and I do hope I like any new models they come up with but realistically I am not expecting very much.

 Altruizine wrote:
Firstly, your number seems off (or exaggerated). Using the Canadian prices, because those are what load for me: a box of Ork Boyz costs $45 while most other, newer 10-model troop boxes cost $55. If that pricing carried through to a refreshed Boyz kit, an Ork player would basically be paying +1$ per Boy. Using the figure of 200 Boyz to satisfy your requirement of "creating an army" that means a new player, subject to that projected price increase, would be paying +200$ compared to someone today. That does not double the cost of the army. Unless you want to try to claim that there's a bunch of invisible math behind your position, and you've mentally established that a prototypical Ork army already costs ~180% of "any other army" meaning that that additional $200 would bring it to a clean "double what it costs" for everyone else.

I think you are benchmarking the wrong likely 10 model box. Yes, GSC Neophytes are $55CAN. They are basically Guardsmen though being on 25mm bases and human sized as well as an older new kit (well aware of the oxymoron there). I think the more accurate benchmark for a new Ork Boyz kit would be the same as Intercessors, $70CAN. I certainly could be wrong, but I really don't think I am.

It was less than a year ago that Ork Boyz went from $29US to $36US. Given that I think $60US is a reasonable guess that is essentially doubling the price of the faction's own core Troop choice. I also reckon that Orks players are probably going to want 3 times the number of Boyz as a Space Marine (Loyalist, Chaos, any) player. I think any new specialist Ork 5 model kit is likely to be $55US which seems to be where a lot of the newer ones are landing. They won't likely share cross compatibility of current Orks such as a box of Lootas/Burnas can cannibalize Boyz kits for all the weapon options save the Spanner with Custom Mega-Blaster (which isn't too hard to kitbash something). Add in transports, cans, Meganobs (which are already too pricey for the kit they are) and other units to round out an army and that is easily could exceed double a basic non-horde faction army.

As far as I know the last horde model kit GW has released is the GSC Acolyte/Metamoprh kit. Which as long as I have been interested in GSC, the army wants you to run way more Acolytes than I am willing to put money into given it's a $40 box for 5 models that is base 8ppm. I have a little more than 40 of them either from SC or really cheap 3rd party sellers. I could easily go with another 20 or 40 in an army as they are usually more effective than Neophytes and just as fragile if not more so than Ork Boyz. However, at $80 for 10, that is just too steep for me to want to get many more now that I don't need anything else in the SC and cheap (about $20 for 5) models have all but dried up completely.

tneva82 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.

Except gw　has went with monopose with　new kits. So were　ork　boyz come you would have 10 boyz in 10 poses. Buy 10 boxes　and　10 different pose 10 times.

Times of multipose　is over. Time of monopose is here.

The Repentia Squad box has two builds for each of the 10 Torsos. That is 18 Repentia without a duplicate model.

So just 5 identically posed clones of each boy per battalion. Totally worth spending hundreds of dollars for more straight backs in a horde unit.

Yeah, I think a lot of people pushing for a new Ork kit or redesign just want change for the sake of change, rather than realizing the ramifications of what having a new boyz kit or Ork design paradigm would entail. Unsurprisingly, most of these are non-Ork players who haven't painstakingly assembled countless boyz and other Ork models. The shift to 32mm bases were already an area of contention with some of the Ork player base since some didn't want to rip off models or buy base extenders. So having completely new models that will undoubtedly be more expensive for arguably less value just makes no sense to me.

All I want for boys is the option to take a burna or big choppa as a special weapon in place of a big shoota or rocket launcher. And for ard boys or skar boys to be points/power upgrades instead of strategems. But those are all rules changes.

Kit wise, no need for new boys right now. Focus on Kommandos, Tankbustas, and Deffkoptas. Going from there, they could expand on the stompa and battlewagon kits, adding more sprues to add optionslime they did the Baneblade and Imperial Knight.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, I think a lot of people pushing for a new Ork kit or redesign just want change for the sake of change, rather than realizing the ramifications of what having a new boyz kit or Ork design paradigm would entail. Unsurprisingly, most of these are non-Ork players who haven't painstakingly assembled countless boyz and other Ork models. The shift to 32mm bases were already an area of contention with some of the Ork player base since some didn't want to rip off models or buy base extenders. So having completely new models that will undoubtedly be more expensive for arguably less value just makes no sense to me.

I agree. I don't play orks but played greenskins in fantasy and chopping all the bitz of the orc boy kit from the sprue, making a pile of torsos, heads, legs, arms, etc... and then mixing them randomly was, and is still, the best fun I have had ever in this hobby.