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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
That would have been far less awkward.
A lot of us ork players would be overjoyed with new models.
If you made some legs that had a different stance, even a more upright one, that worked wit the old torsos, arms, and heads, amazing! Look at how many people buy third-party ork 'running legs', or 'squatting legs', or 'sitting legs'.
If you made new torsos in different poses, even more upright ones, that worked with the old heads, arms, and legs, fantastic. Look at the huge, huge array of third party ork torsos out there.
New arms? That work with current ork torsos? Holy cow, we will buy them up. I've bought so many arms with stikkbombs, with different sluggas, with different choppas, flipping the bird, you name it. We'll buy them.
New heads? That work with current ork torsos? Great God Almighty! Ork players will break down your door to buy them. I couldn't possibly name all the different head variants that sell well from who knows how many manufacturers.
Ork players LOVE new models. They just want them to play nice with the old model bits.
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 02:58:18
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
Neophytes are borderline (too pricey, imo, but a lot of bits). Acolytes are outrageous. Poxwalkers are EZ-build monopose that have been repeatedly sold in various boxed sets, paint sets and what have you. $35 for 10 is rather ridiculous.
To keep boyz low, they'd probably jettison the nob and all his gear, and do a weird 7/8 mix of shootas and sluggas & choppas, similar to the more annoying loadouts in chaos marine kits. Otherwise, yeah, they absolutely would raise the price significantly.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
Overstating a bit there. Ork players have repeatedly stated that we want new models for stuff that bizarrely haven't been updated even though they're choices you can take but are no longer available model wise (Big Mek with KFF) as well as models that are long overdue for a proper plastic kit, like the Ork Warboss, especially one in Mega Armour. Throw in the obligatory tankbustas and kommandos and I'm not sure what you're talking about. What a lot of are adamant against is unnecessary change in the Ork range when the downsides far outweigh the benefits. With how modular the Ork range is with one another, changing a core kit, which the Ork boyz set is, fundamentally restricts what Ork players can easily kitbash together AND it's almost guaranteed to be more expensive with limited posing options. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and this certainly fits the bill.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
That might be connected to orks also being the only army which already has a large core of well done plastic kits which all combine with each other.
There simply is vastly more to lose than to gain.
Instead of wasting effort on updating already great plastic kits to extort money from ork players, they should updates kits and factions that actually need that attention.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 07:41:56
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
But yeah, they aren't awful, so you'll get a bit of pushback from people who think they're fine as they are.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 09:25:33
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
That might be connected to orks also being the only army which already has a large core of well done plastic kits which all combine with each other.
There simply is vastly more to lose than to gain.
Instead of wasting effort on updating already great plastic kits to extort money from ork players, they should updates kits and factions that actually need that attention.
Or re-adding characterful “classic” units again. Boarboyz, bioniks, tankbustas and kommandos, madboyz and more, oh my!
Seriously, gimme dat bubblechukka back GW! Mekboy speedstas were the best.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks. Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more. They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs. On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
You don't seem to grasp the problem at all, new models aren't a good thing just because they are new. New models are only great if: - The old model is metal/finecast/doesn't have a model (they are not) - The old model no longer fits the aesthetics of the army (they do) - The old model is part of a unit but has to be bought in singles (they are not)
In contrast, every new release has know downsides: - Loss of additional bits for customization (boyz have lots of those, new kits have extra heads or shoulder pads if you're lucky) - Loss of posability (free posing right now, new kits allow you to pose an arm or two, if anything at all) - Loss of interchangeability of bits between units (boyz are 100% compatible with half the ork plastic range) - Increased price
I'd totally love new ork boyz with updated visuals with poses that still look decent when fielded in a unit of 30, that are the same or cheaper than current kits, with no new wargear option that is strictly better than both choppa and shoota. Sadly, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that GW would suddenly do something completely different from what they have been doing for every single new kit released in the last four or so years.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 10:19:07
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
I think the rubber will meet the road with price rage once they do those model revamps to horde armies. I fully expect you'll see 10 low cost models for $60. I don't envy anyone who wants to make a new Ork, Guard, Nid, insert horde army here. I'll be perfectly content with my old ugly models, unless they try and just force everyone to " upgrade " at which point I don't know how they can try that and not come off bad looking. Though I'll look forward to seeing how people justify it as better for us and done for the communities benefit.
Ork players don’t want new core Boyz when they could have plastic Tankbustas any more than Eldar players want new Guardians when they could have plastic Warp Spiders.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
Also, for new players, who is going to start such an army ? They'd be, as said, about as rare as GSC armies of which I know 0 people who have them and the often quoted reason being " They are just too expensive " .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 11:02:33
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks.
Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more.
They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs. On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
You don't seem to grasp the problem at all, new models aren't a good thing just because they are new.
New models are only great if:
- The old model is metal/finecast/doesn't have a model (they are not)
- The old model no longer fits the aesthetics of the army (they do)
- The old model is part of a unit but has to be bought in singles (they are not)
In contrast, every new release has know downsides:
- Loss of additional bits for customization (boyz have lots of those, new kits have extra heads or shoulder pads if you're lucky)
- Loss of posability (free posing right now, new kits allow you to pose an arm or two, if anything at all)
- Loss of interchangeability of bits between units (boyz are 100% compatible with half the ork plastic range)
- Increased price
I'd totally love new ork boyz with updated visuals with poses that still look decent when fielded in a unit of 30, that are the same or cheaper than current kits, with no new wargear option that is strictly better than both choppa and shoota.
Sadly, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that GW would suddenly do something completely different from what they have been doing for every single new kit released in the last four or so years.
I think overall we don't actually disagree all that much on the general stuff, but have just come to a different conclusion. And maybe the difference is you being an Ork player and me being an ex-Ork player for more than a decade.
One thing I disagree with was your list of "New models are only great if"... you missed out one of the biggest ones, which is improved aesthetics.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
By "sculpt" do you mean "style"? Because I don't think the Ork Boyz sprue is used in many (if any?) kits outside its own.
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks.
Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more.
They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
I don't see how any of that creates a problem with what I said.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs.
I agree that horde army aesthetics should be different to elite army aesthetics (e.g. avoid excessive detail) but I disagree that small issues with the aesthetics disappear in a horde. And I say that as someone who has painted an Orc horde, a Tyranid horde and a Night Goblin horde. Funnily enough, my Ork army is the only one which never reached horde status, lol. The small aesthetic issues are what makes me want to stab my eyes out after painting 50 of the bastards. If you have models that actually look decent when they're done, it becomes a lot more bearable to paint them, at least to me.
The current Ork kit comes from a period in GW's past which I don't really like, it's when they made everything multipose, but in reality only a few poses looked decent so you ended up with a very same-y and bland looking army, or you actually tried to pose them differently and they ended up looking unnatural.
On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
I said in one of my previous posts, for new Boyz to be viable, GW has to be able to make them cheap (at least cheap by GW standards). They can't be charging Primaris prices for them, they need to be aiming for Poxwalker-esque prices (though Orks are naturally gonna be a touch more expensive seeing as they'll need more parts).
I think a new Boyz kit would have to take some inspiration from Savage Orcs and Poxwalkers. If they can do a big sprue or a pair of smaller sprues with 10 unique bodies with shoulders and deltoids moulded in place, but then swappable heads, changeable arms for some adaptability, weapon swaps, etc, and a couple of small gubbinz that can be attached more randomly.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
I don't know if it would really be possible to do the crossover kit with the shootas and sluggas though, as that relies on the hideous shoulder joints that the current kit uses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AngryAngel80 wrote: I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
Also, for new players, who is going to start such an army ? They'd be, as said, about as rare as GSC armies of which I know 0 people who have them and the often quoted reason being " They are just too expensive " .
I'd question how many people are starting Orks now anyway, and how many are just legacy players from years gone by.
But yeah, I can appreciate not wanting your horde's aesthetic changed. But at some point GW needs to move forward, the Ork models are old and the question GW have to ask themselves is whether a unit that is integral to the army is attracting players or pushing players away.
Updating the Boyz is a lot less egregious than killing all of WHFB in one fell swoop. I doubt the updated aesthetic would be so different that people with the old models would be forced to update.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 11:35:49
Yes! All eldar aspect warriors should be updated before they re-do a single plastic ork kit.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind mixing looks, I just don't want my current horde invalidated or binned. I wouldn't put it past GW to try and hard squat or soft squat the old models to force current players to re buy the whole force again. Something they may be slowly rolling out on Marines but could just slam on other factions. That is what I'm concerned of.
As if no one is starting Orks now, you think anyone will start them at $60 for 10 when you need so many of them ?
If its just an updated look then whatever, should still be plenty of the old models for players who want to stick to them. I just worry GW knows the only ones they can try and milk will be current Ork players to re buy the stuff as anyone else won't be crazy enough to try.
I am still confused how releasing new Boys would make you bin all your old ones, assuming weapon options stayed the same?
Like, people still use 2nd ed chaos marines or metal SoBs...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: One thing I disagree with was your list of "New models are only great if"... you missed out one of the biggest ones, which is improved aesthetics.
Yeah, I worded that poorly, it should probably be more like "new upside are only all-upside if...".
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
By "sculpt" do you mean "style"? Because I don't think the Ork Boyz sprue is used in many (if any?) kits outside its own.
No, I mean sculpt. Burnas, lootas, warbikers, the battlewagon crew use the exact same SCULPT, to a point where legs, torsos and certain heads and arms are indistinguishable from each other.
In addition to that, at least trukk and naut crew, as well as the pilots of the ork planes use the same style, including the same arm/shoulder issues you have described.
I agree that horde army aesthetics should be different to elite army aesthetics (e.g. avoid excessive detail) but I disagree that small issues with the aesthetics disappear in a horde. And I say that as someone who has painted an Orc horde, a Tyranid horde and a Night Goblin horde. Funnily enough, my Ork army is the only one which never reached horde status, lol. The small aesthetic issues are what makes me want to stab my eyes out after painting 50 of the bastards. If you have models that actually look decent when they're done, it becomes a lot more bearable to paint them, at least to me.
You do see those details when painting, but rarely, if ever, afterwards. As an anecdote, I recently found out one of my old AOBR boyz had lost his head. After some searching I found it on the bottom of a case I hadn't used to transport orks since I started using it for my DG in 2017. I literally played that model dozens of times over the course of three years without me or my opponent realizing that it had lost its head.
On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
I said in one of my previous posts, for new Boyz to be viable, GW has to be able to make them cheap (at least cheap by GW standards). They can't be charging Primaris prices for them, they need to be aiming for Poxwalker-esque prices (though Orks are naturally gonna be a touch more expensive seeing as they'll need more parts).
I'm fairly sure that they will by in the same range as the basic CSM box. Which is quite expensive.
The majority of poxwalkers are just one bit, and a lot smaller than orks. They are more comparable to gretchin than to boyz.
I also don't think there is a single instance where a new kit wasn't more expensive than its predecessor, so there is no reason to expect this to happen.
I think a new Boyz kit would have to take some inspiration from Savage Orcs and Poxwalkers. If they can do a big sprue or a pair of smaller sprues with 10 unique bodies with shoulders and deltoids moulded in place, but then swappable heads, changeable arms for some adaptability, weapon swaps, etc, and a couple of small gubbinz that can be attached more randomly.
I actually don't think pox walkers did the horde thing too well, some of them, like the coat or the hammer model stick out too much. I actually bought some ETB models just to switch those out in mobs of 20.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 12:14:06
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Don't get me wrong, I don't mind mixing looks, I just don't want my current horde invalidated or binned. I wouldn't put it past GW to try and hard squat or soft squat the old models to force current players to re buy the whole force again. Something they may be slowly rolling out on Marines but could just slam on other factions. That is what I'm concerned of.
As if no one is starting Orks now, you think anyone will start them at $60 for 10 when you need so many of them ?
If its just an updated look then whatever, should still be plenty of the old models for players who want to stick to them. I just worry GW knows the only ones they can try and milk will be current Ork players to re buy the stuff as anyone else won't be crazy enough to try.
I doubt they'll squat your basic Ork Boyz. At most they'll grow a bit bigger and look nicer.
But yeah I totally agree, they can't go charging $60 for 10. That's Primaris pricing.
Maybe 10 for under $40 or 20 for $65 (same price as Slaves to Darkness)?
If they can't do that sort of price level, they shouldn't do it.
Them killing WFB was such a kick in a nards, btw.
My Bretonnians and Wood Elves are still crying
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: You do see those details when painting, but rarely, if ever, afterwards. As an anecdote, I recently found out one of my old AOBR boyz had lost his head. After some searching I found it on the bottom of a case I hadn't used to transport orks since I started using it for my DG in 2017. I literally played that model dozens of times over the course of three years without me or my opponent realizing that it had lost its head.
Maybe you and I deviate a bit here, I can recognise most of my Orcs by some feature that I did differently or some mistake I made or whatever, lol.
I will admit I get a bit lost on my Night Goblins, but that's because I have 150 of the Skull Pass ones which are all pretty similar, but my eye still gets drawn to little details on them, haha.
I actually don't think pox walkers did the horde thing too well, some of them, like the coat or the hammer model stick out too much. I actually bought some ETB models just to switch those out in mobs of 20.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
Plague Marines only have a few poses I think?
Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
I figure 10-ish different poses would be fine. In a regiment of 50 Savage Orcs I don't notice the duplicate poses and from memory they use 10 unique poses, and if you have 2 regiments of 50 I imagine they'd still look fine, especially if the 2nd regiment is equipped with a different weapon.
Kairic Acolytes are one that I think look okay-ish also, though having different elbow joints that fit the same body would help them a lot as my eye gets drawn to the ones holding their arms outstretched in an identical way.
It's always going to be a compromise on muscular models. Space Marines are easy, but having very adaptable models with muscles that still look good is hard.
I appreciate if you prefer compromising on the quality of the sculpts to get slightly more adaptability, but I think there's a nice middle ground that's possible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 12:55:50
Ya I think people are jumping to conclusions that new boys models would completely invalidate old ones, or that the aesthetic would be so distinctly different.
I mean honestly when was the last time GW re-did a complete Troop kit like Boys? Plague Marines, CSM? The core aesthetic doesn't seem to have changed from what I can tell, they are just better sculpted (not saying looks, thats opinion) more detailed models.
And again if you already have 120 boys they aren't going to magically disappear with a new kit. And if anything people who have an overabundance of the current boys will most likely sell some on markets like eBay at a greatly discounted price. They won't be hard to find.
EldarExarch wrote: Ya I think people are jumping to conclusions that new boys models would completely invalidate old ones, or that the aesthetic would be so distinctly different.
I mean honestly when was the last time GW re-did a complete Troop kit like Boys? Plague Marines, CSM? The core aesthetic doesn't seem to have changed from what I can tell, they are just better sculpted (not saying looks, thats opinion) more detailed models.
And again if you already have 120 boys they aren't going to magically disappear with a new kit. And if anything people who have an overabundance of the current boys will most likely sell some on markets like eBay at a greatly discounted price. They won't be hard to find.
Plague Marines and CSM are examples of where old parts don't really fit to the new models anymore. I've magnetized many weapons, old marines always had the guns with one hand on the grip and the open hand on the marine, new plague marines have the open hand modelled to the weapon, so it's much harder to fit to other models, leave alone all scale issues. So in the end back packs, heads and shoulder pads are the only things that are interchangeable between old and new Plague marines or CSM.
I agree with your second part though, my old Plague Marines are doing just fine next to the new ones and are proud to have received a 2nd wound after all these years of service .
AngryAngel80 wrote: I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
New plastic guard get me excited. Because the basic guard kit isn't like the ork boy kit. Its missing basic options. For multiple regiments, basic weapon options are _missing_. Heck, when you get right down to it, multiple regiments are entirely missing, but still have specific rules.
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
There's a bunch of different shoota variants, lots of heads (including other kits) and options for right or left handed shootas. And every ork kit adds to the variety with new heads, bits and bobs, and even new bodies in some cases. And that's before any conversion work (even little stuff like replacing sluggas with shootas for a one handed pose)
If they're looking overly samey to you, its either your eye or the ork player is being lazy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 14:45:52
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Ah. Time to break out the cardboard chits and not bother with miniatures then.
If you made some legs that had a different stance, even a more upright one, that worked wit the old torsos, arms, and heads, amazing! Look at how many people buy third-party ork 'running legs', or 'squatting legs', or 'sitting legs'.
If you made new torsos in different poses, even more upright ones, that worked with the old heads, arms, and legs, fantastic. Look at the huge, huge array of third party ork torsos out there.
New arms? That work with current ork torsos? Holy cow, we will buy them up. I've bought so many arms with stikkbombs, with different sluggas, with different choppas, flipping the bird, you name it. We'll buy them.
New heads? That work with current ork torsos? Great God Almighty! Ork players will break down your door to buy them. I couldn't possibly name all the different head variants that sell well from who knows how many manufacturers.
Ork players LOVE new models. They just want them to play nice with the old model bits.
None of that would happen though. You would get set models and parts from model a would be compatible with model b by sheer dump luck. Big shoota/rokkit would go to same body every time without cutting and green stuffing. And old boy parts? Forget it
But yeah I totally agree, they can't go charging $60 for 10. That's Primaris pricing.
Maybe 10 for under $40 or 20 for $65 (same price as Slaves to Darkness)?
If they can't do that sort of price level, they shouldn't do it.
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10 32mm base troop infantry. Check prices for those and you see boy price if they get new kit. If they don't do another reqular price hike. Battle sister price is what you are looking at. In good scenario.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/07 17:29:27
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
Plague Marines only have a few poses I think?
10 poses between DI and the ETB set, which make the bulk of my army, another 7 from two plague marine boxes, plus one set of Space Marine Heros. In theory I could get another 3 poses by buying the reinforcements set, but there are better things to spend money on.
The models that stick out are those which aren't just standing and holding their weapon in front of them, but those which are in a grenade throwing or running pose, or those with a unique weapon sticking out.
Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
I figure 10-ish different poses would be fine. In a regiment of 50 Savage Orcs I don't notice the duplicate poses and from memory they use 10 unique poses, and if you have 2 regiments of 50 I imagine they'd still look fine, especially if the 2nd regiment is equipped with a different weapon.
Thing is, 50 boyz is literally unplayable unless you are putting them in trukks, 40k orks are on a completely different scale than AoS orruks or ironjaws. An ork army not absolutely focused on vehicles needs at least 3x30 to function, some players are bringing even more. And this is the least amount of boyz an ork horde has needed to field in years.
I appreciate if you prefer compromising on the quality of the sculpts to get slightly more adaptability, but I think there's a nice middle ground that's possible.
Eh, I think we both have roughly the same vision of what a perfect box of ork boyz would look like, I'm just convinced that a remade box of boyz will be nothing like that vision and end up being overall worse for everyone involved.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Ah. Time to break out the cardboard chits and not bother with miniatures then.
good old ad absurdum. Except you're mostly right, when it comes to horde armies chits work just as well from visual POV, cause 10 orks can look unique and cool. A 100 orks are just visual background.
The point is, adding small amount of "new style" orks would not make an army of "old" plastic orks invalid, they'd disappear into the horde, so there's no real downside to it from that perspective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/07 18:04:07
So I say bring on the newbies!
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