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Why I am unsure regarding The Heavenfall Blade is that The Burning Blade is +3S, compared to the +2 for Heavenfall, and in combination with The Imperium's Sword Warlord trait brings you up to that sweet S8 on the charge.

princeyg wrote:
Its In the chapter tactics section of Codex Space Marines.

You need both codex and supplement to get the most out of Dark Angels.

Thanks. I found Grim Resolve rule. Feels like I need to build my own cheat sheet as the rules are a bit spread out.

Mickmann wrote:
Quick question about Bladeguard in a DW detatchment. How do you transport them? Just let them walk?

The repulsor still doesn't sound like a good deal with that high points cost and no invul-save. I think in the preview they said Impulsors can't be DW.

Impulsors cannot be be given Rites of Initiation into the Deathwing. Repulsors are your only option, although if you take two detachments I suppose you could have DW Bladeguard hitch a ride in a non-Deathwing Impulsor. I’ve been walking my Bladeguard up the board.

On the topic of Deathwing transport options, is there a consensus on Stormraven or Landraider transports? I run a firstborn DA army and am currently in consideration of these 2 options. The weapons load out on either options would likely be whatever is basic to keep them cheaper, after all, I'm not bringing them for firepower necessarily. I'm liking the Stormraven option since it can carry a dreadnought and also because of the dual plasma cannons. They are pricey though, perhaps that's to be expected though? Whats everyone's thoughts on these?

eternalxfl wrote:
On the topic of Deathwing transport options, is there a consensus on Stormraven or Landraider transports? I run a firstborn DA army and am currently in consideration of these 2 options. The weapons load out on either options would likely be whatever is basic to keep them cheaper, after all, I'm not bringing them for firepower necessarily. I'm liking the Stormraven option since it can carry a dreadnought and also because of the dual plasma cannons. They are pricey though, perhaps that's to be expected though? Whats everyone's thoughts on these?

Both options seem rather costly in terms of points to be considered competitive. For a more casual game, the Land Raider is likely to be less of a trap, by which I mean it won't tempt you to spend a minimum of 430 points on a transport and dreadnought in addition to the 200+ points of terminators it's carrying. You'll have a very hard time winning if you spend ~650 points on things that don't score or kill with any particular efficiency. By comparison, the Land Raider saves you from feeling cheated if you choose not to bring a dreadnought while carrying as many models - for your own sanity pretend that only the Redeemer and Crusader actually exist - thus the Land Raider is the least bad option.

How does everyone feel about the new Storm Speeder? I recently bought one and am very glad that I can make the options swappable without need for magnets (the wing missiles technically shouldn't be there for the Hailstrike/Hammerstrike, but they look so cool and would be a pain to magnetize), and I'm wondering if anyone else is thinking about them or planning to add them to their DA arsenal besides me. The combination of Jink and High-Speed Focus makes me think that DA might be the only chapter in which they are very viable. Kind of a bigger version of our Land Speeder Vengeance, costing more points but having somewhat more firepower.

My trial dual wing list is coming together, but I'm trying to think what I want to add for the final 310pts

Deathwing vanguard
Ezekiel
10 DW terminators, 2 cyclones, 2 TH/SS, watcher
5 DW Knights, watcher
DW Ancient, Pennant of Remembrance

Ravenwing Outrider
Talon Master, Brilliant Strategist, Arbiter's gaze
RW Apothecary, chief upgrade, selfless healer
4 RW bikes, 2 meltas, AB w MM
4 RW bikes, 2 meltas, AB w MM
LS vengeance

Combat squad 5 terms with 2 cyclones and 2 TH/SS to hold objective with Ancient for Stubborn Defiance (not sure if I need to go all in with 10 to ensure points)
Other Deathwing units move to center for Oath of Moment.
I think other points need to be invested in more Ravenwing.

@Bullyboy,

I like it! Perhaps some Attack Bikes with Multi-Melta?

I realized I need Sammael in there for some rerolls. Then I'll probably add another bike squad (4). I only have 2 attack bikes with MMs and not sure I want to hunt down anymore, and both of them are already attached to a bike squad each.
Another option is a Deathwing contemptor with MM to march up with knights.

Putting an Attack Bike with a regular Bike Squad is probably a decent way to go, as they then have ObSec. I wonder about putting a couple of meltaguns on the regular dudes to make them a decent little hunter-killer unit. Then again, at 40 points each for a biker with meltagun, maybe you'd be just as well to take Eradicators, although they are nowhere near as mobile.

With the 9th Index I ran a RW Sqn with an attached Attack Bike with Multi-Melta plus two Meltas in the Sqn. Brings them into fairly close range (not always a great thing with RW), but it could really carve up armour. Attack Bikes on their own can be used to keep deep-strikes away from Black Knights, and can also do suicide runs against tanks/Dreads.

I got to play my first game with Dark Angels against Custodes. Note, I am a very long time Eldar player and have not even played a Marine army since 5th edition (and that was very brief). I tip my hat to those who can play multiple armies and keep rules straight; I dont even know the basic stats of this army and spent a lot of time referencing books. Expectedly, I lost pretty handedly. I utilized a Ravenwing Outrider detachment and Dark Angels Patrol detachment.

For new players, I highly recommend making notes to quickly reference. There is a lot of material to reference in several places between two books. Just the stratagem alone is a real challenge to know; jotting down the most likely ones one would use and in what phase could help.

I found the Ravenwing specific secondary (Death in the wind) to be underwhelming. This was primarily due to the require me t to move 12". I interpret the movement rule as actual distance from start point to end point, not moving a model 6 inches, then putting it back in its original position and counting that as 12" movement. That rule interpretation may change how easily it is to score.

I had mediocre luck with the secondary, Stubborn Defiance. The mission I played had zero objectives in my own deployment zone, requiring me to be in a position closer to Custodes (hint: don't make Custodes charges easier to make). I did observe that I was scoring points, so this objective bears more games to try out.

Of my units, the Attack Bike worked very well. I ran 2 x 3 Attack Bike squads with Multi Meltas. They have enough wounds and the 5++ felt sufficient.

I am not sure the ability for Ravenwing units to asdvance and still shoot was worth the 4++ for a turn. For myself, I will assess how much of my army will be subject to -1 to hit through enemy auras/abilities and/or terrain. If I am likely to already be subjected to a -1 to hit, then advancing will only yield a positive for my army. One notable exception would be a Talonmaster with the Arbiters Gaze relic.

Interestingly, the Ravenwing appears to have a broad strategy similar to my Craftworld army; play the edges of the board, stay at range to deplete the opposing army, then move in during the latter turns to catch up on primary objective points. I think this was my biggest learning lesson as I watched Custodes wreck every unit they got into assault with.

Overall, I am excited to be building a new army and am enjoying the options available in the Dark Angels. Lots of options for a variety of play styles.

@Sarigar,

Thanks for posting the results of a recent game! I find that Ravenwing like to operate at their max effective weapon range. They can fight in melee, but its not really their strong suite. I agree that the 12" movement requirement on the Ravenwing secondary is a genuine constraint. I think its still an option if you are facing an army with a large number of units but no obvious source of VPs for Secondaries like Bring it Down etc.

I haven't gotten the codex yet. Is Sammael still limited to just the jetbike, or did they get generous and give us back his Landspeeder option?

 cuda1179 wrote:
I haven't gotten the codex yet. Is Sammael still limited to just the jetbike, or did they get generous and give us back his Landspeeder option?

Jetbike only.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
@Sarigar,

Thanks for posting the results of a recent game! I find that Ravenwing like to operate at their max effective weapon range. They can fight in melee, but its not really their strong suite. I agree that the 12" movement requirement on the Ravenwing secondary is a genuine constraint. I think its still an option if you are facing an army with a large number of units but no obvious source of VPs for Secondaries like Bring it Down etc.

Agreed. This was only a single game against an experienced player with a solid army. I definitely need more games to better understand the Army.

On an aside, I built a one page cheat sheet and a one page stratagem quick reference. I can't recommend this enough for players who may not be very familiar with their respective army. Break down all the stratagems by phase alone can be a real time saver. You can also begin to track which stratagems you tend to use more often than others.

good and informative first post!

 Nora wrote:
good and informative first post!

Thanks for the feedback!

My intent is to keep the first post "evergreen" and keep it updated as the community gets more games in. Comments, criticism and contrary views are most welcome! I also invite Dark Angels players to post the summaries of their games here. My own region is just coming out of lockdown, but I know that some folks have been able to play in their areas. There is plenty of theoryhammer going on out there, but some practical examples are very valuable.

I am a little sad because our next local tourney (this weekend) required lists in mid-Jan, so didn't go with my usual Dark Angels as I knew the Codex was dropping after the list deadline...

eternalxfl wrote:
On the topic of Deathwing transport options, is there a consensus on Stormraven or Landraider transports? SNIP
Whats everyone's thoughts on these?

When looking at transports for terminators, you must always ask yourself a series of questions:

1) What benefit am I getting by transporting instead of teleporting?
2) How long do I expect the transport to survive?
2a) What are my chances of it surviving long enough to deliver?
3) What will the transport do after dropping it's payload?

Being able to transport a dreadnought is very valuable, but also draws a lot of fire at a model which is near impossible to hide (completely impossible on most tournament tables I've ever played on). I would expect the success rate to be very low.

Having a transport available is great when your opponent has capability to screen.

My preference is for the land raider but I have to caveat that with my bias against fliers in general.
The Raven is generally the better gun platform. Perhaps look at it in that light. Include it for the guns, use it as a transport when the opportunity presents itself. Don't bank on a one trick pony of delivering terminators and dreadnought every game.

That's how I see my land raider in Crusade. It's a tough predator most games, but can move my tactical squad sometimes.

Quick question, we can still use the codex space marines warlord traits, strategems, and relics along with the dark angels specific ones right?

Yep, we are a supplement to that book, not a replacement.

princeyg wrote:
Yep, we are a supplement to that book, not a replacement.

Perfect, that's what I thought. The storm of fire warlord trait seems pretty good too me with a big blob of DW terminators. I'm thinking an ancient as the warlord with the -1 damage banner, storm of fire, a chief apothecary with selfless healer, and a blob of 10 DW terms on a center objective would be really good. With that amount of shots, you're going to get a good amount of 6's to wound.

Deleted. Please ignore.

Mickmann wrote:
Quick question about Bladeguard in a DW detatchment. How do you transport them? Just let them walk?

The repulsor still doesn't sound like a good deal with that high points cost and no invul-save. I think in the preview they said Impulsors can't be DW.

Advance them across. Personally I havent found spare points to put them in lists.

Impulsors cant be in the vanguard detachment but if your taking a patrol to supplement then the Impulsor is by far the best choice.

Hello Sons of the Lion,

What an exciting time to be a fan of the First Legion!

The new detachment options for First and Second company are really cool. But will you forgo the Greenwing entirely or take a detachment to provide backfield support / fire support / or cheaper bodies?

Do you rate heavy intercessors as a decent option perhaps near Azrael? It Keeps with the 3 wound model theme of either the terminators or the bikers.

I quite like the toughness/value of Vindicated to further saturate tough targets along with the deathwing.

Any thoughts?

What are peoples thoughts on the two chaplain relics who is also chanting Mantra of Strength

Benediction of Fury St+2 (St7), Ap2,3D (4D), Mortal on 6's plus normal

vs

Mace of Redemption Stx2 (St9), Ap3, 2D (3D), For CSM 2 Mortals on 4s but no normal dmg.

As a second question, which would you take vs Deathguard with Morty




Automatically Appended Next Post:

BadManNZ wrote:
Hello Sons of the Lion,

What an exciting time to be a fan of the First Legion!

The new detachment options for First and Second company are really cool. But will you forgo the Greenwing entirely or take a detachment to provide backfield support / fire support / or cheaper bodies?

Do you rate heavy intercessors as a decent option perhaps near Azrael? It Keeps with the 3 wound model theme of either the terminators or the bikers.

I quite like the toughness/value of Vindicated to further saturate tough targets along with the deathwing.

Any thoughts?

Me personally I will never leave home without a Patrol that has inceptors and attack bikes (or termies if i go with outrider detachment) unless I go for a novelty single detachment list.

I found that I always steal points from my troops slot so haven't even considered heavy intercessors. As for Azrael he really should be moving up the board and not babysitting some objective holders so I would only consider them on their own merit.

I dunno, a big brick of Heavy Intercessors with Azrael giving them rerolls could be decent. Especially since I'm pretty sure they have all the right keywords to use the shoot twice stratagem. I honestly like that idea better than taking the old Hellblaster blob as it's a lot less points.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I dunno, a big brick of Heavy Intercessors with Azrael giving them rerolls could be decent. Especially since I'm pretty sure they have all the right keywords to use the shoot twice stratagem. I honestly like that idea better than taking the old Hellblaster blob as it's a lot less points.

Rapid Fire explicitly allows Intercessors Squads and Veteran Intercessor Squads to shoot twice. Heavy Intercessors may have the Intercessor keyword, but Rapid Fire doesn’t key off of that I’m afraid.

Rivener wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I dunno, a big brick of Heavy Intercessors with Azrael giving them rerolls could be decent. Especially since I'm pretty sure they have all the right keywords to use the shoot twice stratagem. I honestly like that idea better than taking the old Hellblaster blob as it's a lot less points.

Rapid Fire explicitly allows Intercessors Squads and Veteran Intercessor Squads to shoot twice. Heavy Intercessors may have the Intercessor keyword, but Rapid Fire doesn’t key off of that I’m afraid.

You're absolutely right. Oh well, I still think the idea has merit as 10 T5 3W bodies with a 4++ vs. enemy shooting, getting full rerolls when they shoot, could be nasty.

10 man terminator blob.
Are yall leaning towards SS/TH for more defense and potency in combat, or for the cheaper StormBolter/PF load out? Storm bolter seams a little harder to ignore, as even if you dont get into combat your dumping 40 shots out.

But +1 to armor, and a 4++ is pretty huge, so curious as to what you guys think.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
10 man terminator blob.
Are yall leaning towards SS/TH for more defense and potency in combat, or for the cheaper StormBolter/PF load out? Storm bolter seams a little harder to ignore, as even if you dont get into combat your dumping 40 shots out.

But +1 to armor, and a 4++ is pretty huge, so curious as to what you guys think.

3 or 4 th/ss and the rest is storm bolter, with 2 cyclone ML to boot. I will probably try double lightning claw on squad leader, but any load out aside from power sword if fine for that dude I think