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 Tyran wrote:
That would have less to do with balance, and far more with fluff. As I understand it, having multiple Archons in the same battlefield is almost unheard of, after all there is only one Archon per Kabal.

Of course, I'm suuuuure GW's main motivating factor is the 'fluff.'

Never mind that secondary Archons could be Dracons without GW even having to go to the effort of making them a datasheet.

In any case, the Kabal of The Black Heart does in fact have multiple Archons, who answer to 'Big V'.

 vipoid wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
That would have less to do with balance, and far more with fluff. As I understand it, having multiple Archons in the same battlefield is almost unheard of, after all there is only one Archon per Kabal.

Cool, I guess we'll just a Dracon instead.

Oh wait, those were removed.

Well, at least we can fall back on an Incubi Lieutenant.

Oh. No, we don't have those either.

Er... good job we've got Scourge Princes, right?

Oh wait, no, those don't exist either.

Ah well, at least we can always take our trusty Mandrake Lord.

Oh, nope, there I go again imaging a reality in which GW actually gives a damn about Dark Eldar.

If GW didn't give a damn, then Dark Eldar wouldn't be getting a codex.

Anyway, I guess we have to wait and see.

They give a small damn - gotta be something for Marines to shoot at afterall

 Tyran wrote:

If GW didn't give a damn, then Dark Eldar wouldn't be getting a codex.

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V to milk money from DE players in a new edition does not count as "giving a damn".

petrov27 wrote:
They give a small damn - gotta be something for Marines to shoot at afterall

"Sir we have completed the marine books and supplaments!"
"outstanding work"
"whats next ? We need an enemy for them to fight, and people are grumbling about us only caring about marines"
"what about those Dark eldar guys that used to be iconic baddies way back when I was a kid?"
"Sounds perfect sir. I will throw something together before lunch and have it on your desk in 5"
*proceeds to C&P 8E codex and then just edits it in 5 minutes to let it look legit so he can go back to making WD SM rules for his sones fav chapter*

 Argive wrote:

petrov27 wrote:
They give a small damn - gotta be something for Marines to shoot at afterall

"Sir we have completed the marine books and supplaments!"
"outstanding work"
"whats next ? We need an enemy for them to fight, and people are grumbling about us only caring about marines"
"what about those Dark eldar guys that used to be iconic baddies way back when I was a kid?"
"Sounds perfect sir. I will throw something together before lunch and have it on your desk in 5"
*proceeds to C&P 8E codex and then just edits it in 5 minutes to let it look legit so he can go back to making WD SM rules for his sones fav chapter*

That’s assuming they even remember DE are still a thing!

 Daedalus81 wrote:


There are a couple things I think of when I read lieutenant.

First is a two-for-one slot.
Second is characters in the Elite slot.

I don't think either of those would be "bad" would it? I don't quite understand your position I guess.

It's all about the story: Cult or a Coven should have the power to rival a Kabal; if they don't, it really chips away at the intrigues that make Commorragh what it is. I would have been offended (and was) even if I though of lieutenant as merely being a lesser HQ- I hadn't even considered the possibility of Succubi or Haemonculai being reduced to Elites. That would be an atrocity.

Sure, Lelith and Urien get to keep their status as HQ, and so the Cult of Strife and the Prophets of the Flesh will still be actual armies, rather than the paid lackeys of some Archon schmuck, but for the rest of us... sorry about our luck.

Would mercs (Incubi, Scourges, Mandrakes) even stoop to accept payment from a Cult or a Kabal that didn't have an HQ choice? The loss of prestige...

Which is why I prefer to not panic about such a vague leak- I'm sure it's a communication error based on semantics. I've seen more people complain about the gradual gutting of our HQ choices than I have complaining about the raiding force rule; surely GW couldn't be foolish enough to solve the later by doubling down on the former.

Edit: Ninja'd. BIG time.

PenitentJake wrote:

It's all about the story: Cult or a Coven should have the power to rival a Kabal; if they don't, it really chips away at the intrigues that make Commorragh what it is.

I think there's also the question of why such a rule would be necessary in the first place.

What problem would we even be solving by making Cult and Coven secondary to Kabal?

 vipoid wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

If GW didn't give a damn, then Dark Eldar wouldn't be getting a codex.

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V to milk money from DE players in a new edition does not count as "giving a damn".

It would be very blatant if they do that, as 9th edition codexes not only include tons of army wide rules, but the format and wording of datasheets and rules are considerably changed.

 Argive wrote:

petrov27 wrote:
They give a small damn - gotta be something for Marines to shoot at afterall

"Sir we have completed the marine books and supplaments!"
"outstanding work"
"whats next ? We need an enemy for them to fight, and people are grumbling about us only caring about marines"
"what about those Dark eldar guys that used to be iconic baddies way back when I was a kid?"
"Sounds perfect sir. I will throw something together before lunch and have it on your desk in 5"
*proceeds to C&P 8E codex and then just edits it in 5 minutes to let it look legit so he can go back to making WD SM rules for his sones fav chapter*

I think this has been an issue with 40K for decades. When the GW writers (as a whole) show clearly more investment and enthusiasm in writing for one faction (SM) over the others, this leads to unintended consequences such as unintended synergistic combinations of all the various special rules that creep in. Other factions either languish, being ignored, or get a sort of "phoned in" effort that because of the lack of enthusiasm by the writer, leads to being underpowered (or reliant on the handful of good things that actually do work in an otherwise dysfunctional list), or ironically overpowered due to their unfamiliarity with the faction leading to the creation of overpowered rules.

Iracundus wrote:
I think this has been an issue with 40K for decades. When the GW writers (as a whole) show clearly more investment and enthusiasm in writing for one faction (SM) over the others, this leads to unintended consequences such as unintended synergistic combinations of all the various special rules that creep in. Other factions either languish, being ignored, or get a sort of "phoned in" effort that because of the lack of enthusiasm by the writer, leads to being underpowered (or reliant on the handful of good things that actually do work in an otherwise dysfunctional list), or ironically overpowered due to their unfamiliarity with the faction leading to the creation of overpowered rules.

There's certainly an element of this but you also need to recognize that some factions, and sub-factions, are easier to design for than others.

As examples:

-Tau are tough because they've traditionally been a very shooting-focused army that had a cool mobility feature (JSJ) that was frustrating to play against and was removed.
-Eldar, Dark Eldar, and GSC are tough because it's hard to make a balanced glass cannon army. You either end up with trash tier unplayable messes - current Eldar, DE, GSC - or overpowered unfun messes - Harlequins, GSC with turn one infiltrate, Eldar in most past editions - with very little room in between.
-Daemons are tough because it's difficult to balance an exclusive melee army where anything can DS. It's also tough to balance the gods against one another, as well as for play as mono-factions, while also considering mixed god lists.

It's not always that the designers hate a given faction it's mostly just that it can be hard to get things to feel cool while keeping the idea of the army distinct.

This all said DE losing unit entries is unforgivable. Many of the entries lost could be built with nothing more than an upgrade kit to and current models. I sincerely hope that this new codex adds a bunch of new HQs, restores True Born as troops, and tosses in a new surprise or two that make the fans of the BDSM elves jaws drop.

May have already said this: the thing I'm looking most forward to is the Crusade content, because there is no existing Crusade content that could be harmed by whatever it is that we get.

With everything but the Crusade content, there's a chance that it will get messed up. I'm optimistic- I like the dexes I have, and I like many of the bits I've seen from the dexes I don't have.

This is why I'm sure that Succubi and Haemonculai WILL retain HQ status.

I'm less certain that they will get the mixed detachment to work in such a way that it keeps everyone happy- that's a really tall order.

Here's hoping we get real information before the week of March 8th.

This is why I'm sure that Succubi and Haemonculai WILL retain HQ status.

I hope so. The real spectre haunting the DE HQ slot is something like the bizarre restriction Death Guard got saddled with where you get _1_ Lord(of whatever type) or DaemonPrince, and the only thing to do is spam sorcerers in the other required (or optional) slots. Just... wtf?

It seems really clear that there won't be anything else for the army, so any weirdness in this vein is going to be very noticeable.

Voss wrote:

It seems really clear that there won't be anything else for the army

You are most likely right about that, but I am holding on to a bit of hope. If we're looking at a March 13th preorder, there is a real chance they've held something back.

At the very least, it seems that every army that doesn't have a fortification is getting one; admittedly, the realspace raid concept sort of negates the idea of DE fortifications, unless they do a dark mirror to the CW webway portal (you know, portal... only with blades). Kinda neat for a custom narrative scenario... Enter a portal on a Craftworld, exit into Commorragh, or vice versa.

Hoping for a unit. 8th gave us a character and a unit. We know 9th is giving us a character, but there should be a unit.

PenitentJake wrote:

Voss wrote:

It seems really clear that there won't be anything else for the army

You are most likely right about that, but I am holding on to a bit of hope. If we're looking at a March 13th preorder, there is a real chance they've held something back.

Keep in mind this book was delayed. There's nothing in the months of glimpses, rumour engines, preview videos or anything else other than the Lelith remake v3, and she first started popping into view way back in October (unless some of her rumor engine bits were even earlier). Nothing. Not even a 'is this possibly a dark eldar bit in the corner of this screenshot.'

The few previews they've done are changes to a couple unit profiles, spread out over months (incubi were back in November, iirc). That's starting out by scraping the bottom of the barrel.

At the very least, it seems that every army that doesn't have a fortification is getting one; admittedly, the realspace raid concept sort of negates the idea of DE fortifications, unless they do a dark mirror to the CW webway portal (you know, portal... only with blades). Kinda neat for a custom narrative scenario... Enter a portal on a Craftworld, exit into Commorragh, or vice versa.

The webway portal is already in the Dark eldar section of the webstore. I honestly thought they had it already.

Hoping for a unit. 8th gave us a character and a unit. We know 9th is giving us a character, but there should be a unit.

8th redid a character and a unit for a Ynnarri tie-in story that still hasn't gone anywhere. The redone character is the sum total. 'Should' is just an empty word.
The only thing that will make this release look bigger is reboxing.

And keep in mind, Lelith isn't coming with the Codex. She's going to be trapped in the DE vs Sisters boxed set for a while.
If there were a unit coming, they'd also be in that box, rather than the alternate 'Start Collecting' force they've shown off (Lels instead of Succubus, Scourges instead of Reavers, and then the standard 10 wyches + venom they can't ride in.

Yeah, forgot to factor in the delay- seems even more likely you're right.

I see some W. Artel grotesques in my future:

https://artelw.com/Flesh-Golems-of-Voidborn-Ancients-p238880601

 Canadian 5th wrote:

-Eldar, Dark Eldar, and GSC are tough because it's hard to make a balanced glass cannon army. You either end up with trash tier unplayable messes - current Eldar, DE, GSC - or overpowered unfun messes - Harlequins, GSC with turn one infiltrate, Eldar in most past editions - with very little room in between.

Speaking for myself, what bothers me about the way DE has been handled is not the overall balance but the demonstrable lack of effort.

It's clear that no one who wrote the 8th edition book even played Dark Eldar. If they did, they'd have immediately seen the fundamental flaw in squad sizes being 5-10, and transports also being capacity 5-10, with neither having an additional slot for an HQ model (and the HQs themselelves having 0 mobility options between them).

What ability should the Archon have to represent his tactical genius and cunning? Er... reroll 1s. Except that we'll make it really exciting by not allowing it to work on Coven units, Cult units, Incubi, Mandrakes, or Scourges. Also, in spite of Kabal's thing being open-topped transports, it won't work in, out of, or into open-topped transports.

So what about the Succubus? Er... reroll 1s in melee. And it doesn't work on Coven, Kabal, Incubi etc. etc.

Then you've got the weapons.

How about the Mindphase Gauntlet? Sounds quite interesting, right? Maybe it attacks an enemy's mind or even forces them to attack themselves.

Want to know what it does?

S:user AP0 D2

Someone wrote that. Someone had to look at it and think to themselves 'Yes, this is the perfect representation of this diabolical alien weapon.'


This is what gets me about the Dark Eldar codex. If they'd tried to make it flavourful but ended up making it underpowered, I could accept that. But instead, no effort at all has been put into it at all. There's just no creative spark, nor the slightest attempt to push the envelope. An envelope would move more if you put it in front of a glacier.

You can see this with the models, too. It's been over a decade now and we're still waiting for a single model that isn't just another remake (usually with a worse sculpt that the model it's replacing). We haven't even got back even a single one of the HQs we've lost over the years, nor any alternative. They maybe had an excuse when their production capacity was low, but not when they've spend the last 3 years vomiting Primaris Lieutenants from every orifice.


(To be clear, Canadian, this rant isn't directed at you. I'm just really fed up at this point.)

Voss wrote:

Keep in mind this book was delayed. There's nothing in the months of glimpses, rumour engines, preview videos or anything else other than the Lelith remake v3, and she first started popping into view way back in October (unless some of her rumor engine bits were even earlier). Nothing. Not even a 'is this possibly a dark eldar bit in the corner of this screenshot.'

The few previews they've done are changes to a couple unit profiles, spread out over months (incubi were back in November, iirc). That's starting out by scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It doesn't give you much hope for the codex being good, does it?

I'm reminded of Blood of the Phoenix, which was so devoid of content that most of the previews were just "another look at Drazhar/Incubi - this time from a slightly different angle!".

Voss wrote:
The few previews they've done are changes to a couple unit profiles, spread out over months (incubi were back in November, iirc). That's starting out by scraping the bottom of the barrel.

No, they're not going to showcase a ton of army details. Those previews are for week of. The Dark Angels preview at the same time showed off a Crusade rule.

They previewed Lelith on Christmas and Incubi just before Thanksgiving. Then they dropped the Kabalites, because new datasheets were going into boxes.

 vipoid wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:

-Eldar, Dark Eldar, and GSC are tough because it's hard to make a balanced glass cannon army. You either end up with trash tier unplayable messes - current Eldar, DE, GSC - or overpowered unfun messes - Harlequins, GSC with turn one infiltrate, Eldar in most past editions - with very little room in between.

Speaking for myself, what bothers me about the way DE has been handled is not the overall balance but the demonstrable lack of effort.

It's clear that no one who wrote the 8th edition book even played Dark Eldar. If they did, they'd have immediately seen the fundamental flaw in squad sizes being 5-10, and transports also being capacity 5-10, with neither having an additional slot for an HQ model (and the HQs themselelves having 0 mobility options between them).

What ability should the Archon have to represent his tactical genius and cunning? Er... reroll 1s. Except that we'll make it really exciting by not allowing it to work on Coven units, Cult units, Incubi, Mandrakes, or Scourges. Also, in spite of Kabal's thing being open-topped transports, it won't work in, out of, or into open-topped transports.

So what about the Succubus? Er... reroll 1s in melee. And it doesn't work on Coven, Kabal, Incubi etc. etc.

Then you've got the weapons.

How about the Mindphase Gauntlet? Sounds quite interesting, right? Maybe it attacks an enemy's mind or even forces them to attack themselves.

Want to know what it does?

S:user AP0 D2

Someone wrote that. Someone had to look at it and think to themselves 'Yes, this is the perfect representation of this diabolical alien weapon.'

This is what gets me about the Dark Eldar codex. If they'd tried to make it flavourful but ended up making it underpowered, I could accept that. But instead, no effort at all has been put into it at all. There's just no creative spark, nor the slightest attempt to push the envelope. An envelope would move more if you put it in front of a glacier.

Yes, I agree with you. That's an example of what I was getting at in my earlier post. If it were SM, most of the GW writers would no doubt be gushing over with different ideas on how to tweak it or add flavor to it in some way, even if it turned out underpowered. However if it comes to a faction they don't play or care about, the effort just dries up and they just phone it in, and when they can't think of anything else they just fiddle a bit with the raw stats, particularly Damage in 9th edition, or throw in a weak re-roll.

Cruddace's Tyranid Codex is a prime example of this minimum effort Codex.

 vipoid wrote:


This is what gets me about the Dark Eldar codex. If they'd tried to make it flavourful but ended up making it underpowered, I could accept that. But instead, no effort at all has been put into it at all. There's just no creative spark, nor the slightest attempt to push the envelope. An envelope would move more if you put it in front of a glacier.

Agree with you on a lot- transports and weapons 100%. And there were drawbacks to raiding force rules in both 8th and 9th.

But it absolutely is fluffy and does make sense that Wych Cults benefit from the auras of Wych Cult HQ's, that Covens benefit from the auras of Haemonculai and Kabals benefit from the auras of Archons.

Seriously. You're a wrack in the Prophets of the Flesh. The archon you happen to be raiding with says "Don't let the enemy take this hill."

Then Urien says "Go get me that delightful Ogryn... I want its flesh."

Who do you listen to? Give you a hint: it's never been the Archon (possible exception if the Archon is Vect). Because the Archon might be leading the raid, but if you are a Wrack in the Prophets, Urien owns you. Period. Every edition ever.

And just a thing about 8th and 9th in general: a leader's vast knowledge, experience and skills aren't represented by its aura abilities: they are represented by its aura abilities + its warlord trait + its augmentation strat(s) + any of the circumstantial strats it happens to use during the game.

And finally, while I freely admit that the raiding force rule wasn't perfect, it was UNIQUE and innovative and imaginative and it did make the army feel different than every other army.

PenitentJake wrote:

But it absolutely is fluffy and does make sense that Wych Cults benefit from the auras of Wych Cult HQ's, that Covens benefit from the auras of Haemonculai and Kabals benefit from the auras of Archons.

Seriously. You're a wrack in the Prophets of the Flesh. The archon you happen to be raiding with says "Don't let the enemy take this hill."

Then Urien says "Go get me that delightful Ogryn... I want its flesh."

Who do you listen to? Give you a hint: it's never been the Archon (possible exception if the Archon is Vect). Because the Archon might be leading the raid, but if you are a Wrack in the Prophets, Urien owns you. Period. Every edition ever.

But you're talking about a dispute in command.

What if there isn't a Haemonculus on the raid? What if he's elsewhere, or if he wants the same hill, just for different reasons?

PenitentJake wrote:

And finally, while I freely admit that the raiding force rule wasn't perfect, it was UNIQUE and innovative and imaginative and it did make the army feel different than every other army.

It wasn't unique. It was just a re-packaged version of the Coterie rule from the 7th edition Corsairs book.

Except without the features that made that particular detachment functional.

 vipoid wrote:


But you're talking about a dispute in command.

Sort of- but I think it's more accurate to say that I'm using a dispute in command to illustrate something that we have all known about the DE since they first appeared on the scene: that Archons are the leaders of Kabals, that Succubi are the leaders of Cults and Haemonculai are the leaders of Covens. Just because you want the ease and simplicity of all auras applying to all troops doesn't make it fluffy.

As for "What would the Wrack do in army without a Haemonculai," you won't like my answer, which is "Not be in that army." Because again, I don't care about winning, or balance or streamlining/ ease of use anywhere near as much as I care about stories, and never since the DE first appeared on the scene have I ever considered fielding a unit in a battle without its corresponding subfaction HQ. Your head cannon may allow you to believe it's fluffy enough, and I suppose I could come up with a narrative where it would be fluffy. But my personal head cannon sees that situation as an exception and not a rule, and I've thought of it that way since DE appeared on the scene.

To be clear... Not trying to get personal or be self righteous- if my tone is was a bit heavy handed, many apologies; I'm not saying your opinion is wrong- just that I disagree with it. Meaning that I hope the new Codex is flexible enough to let you play it your way and me to play it my way... Because I do think that both of us have valid points.

 vipoid wrote:


It wasn't unique. It was just a re-packaged version of the Coterie rule from the 7th edition Corsairs book.

Except without the features that made that particular detachment functional.

Cool- I was unaware of this, because even though I've played since rogue trader, I took a break for 6th and 7th. I'd still be on a break, except GW brought back the GSC and started treating Sisters like a real army, so I decided to vote with my wallet and let them know that those were good decisions.

I probably should have specified that I meant "Unique to the edition."

But thanks for letting me know there is a precedent from an earlier edition- I might see if I can download a copy of that Corsair book, because I'd like to se the features that made the rule work better for the Corsairs than it does for DE. I don't want to ask you go to a lot of hassle, but if it's a topic of interest, would you mind explaining those features a bit? Might be able to swing them into a house rule if GW doesn't do right by the DE in the new dex.

PenitentJake wrote:

As for "What would the Wrack do in army without a Haemonculai," you won't like my answer, which is "Not be in that army." Because again, I don't care about winning, or balance or streamlining/ ease of use anywhere near as much as I care about stories, and never since the DE first appeared on the scene have I ever considered fielding a unit in a battle without its corresponding subfaction HQ. Your head cannon may allow you to believe it's fluffy enough, and I suppose I could come up with a narrative where it would be fluffy. But my personal head cannon sees that situation as an exception and not a rule, and I've thought of it that way since DE appeared on the scene.

Story wise wracks are routinely sent out by themselves (or part of a raiding force) to go do stuff for the homunculus who is too busy to go themselves and supervise...

They're also just made and sold like disposable commodities. It's not like haemonculi care about their misfit creations.

If an archon wants to buy a half dozen to send into meat grinder, pretty much no one would object. Or even vaguely care.

Still can't figure out how multiquote works on Dakka, so:

@ Warmaster: Yes, Haemonculai do go out on their own to do their master's bidding... But they are still doing their master's bidding, which means it doesn't really makes sense for them to get the benefit of the Archon's command, because they aren't under the Archon's command.

But, of course, the Haemonculus' commandment could be "Do what this guy says." Like I said in the post you quoted, there are certain story situations where it makes sense and others where it doesn't.

Your observation does certainly point out the degree to which my own point of view really is head cannon as opposed to the default fluff. Thanks for the paradigm shift.

@Voss

Yep. Agree 100% with all of that too- an absolutely lock solid story reason for it to be appropriate for the Wracks to benefit from the Archon's command. This hammers the point home.

@both The key for me is always the "Everyone wins" solution. Absolutely, the codex should be written in such a way that it is possible for all of us to field an army that matches our head cannon. Because you guys are right- there will be many, many situations when it is appropriate for the story to go either way.

If nothing else, it wouldn't have been too much of a deal for your designated Warlord to able to buff everything in their army.....

If nothing else, it wouldn't have been too much of a deal for your designated Warlord to able to buff everything in their army.....

That is clearly for space marines only.

Same thing with:
-functioning special rules
-half decent weapons
-good strategems
-good wargear
-HQ choices
-new models

All the realm of the space marine.

Let us all be thankful to GW that we have an army to play, so that we might be slaughtered at the hands of <flavour of the week> Chapter.

PenitentJake wrote:
Sort of- but I think it's more accurate to say that I'm using a dispute in command to illustrate something that we have all known about the DE since they first appeared on the scene: that Archons are the leaders of Kabals, that Succubi are the leaders of Cults and Haemonculai are the leaders of Covens. Just because you want the ease and simplicity of all auras applying to all troops doesn't make it fluffy.

First off, Archons ate still usually the overall leaders of raids. They usually hire Coven and/or Cult units, not necessarily with accompanying Haemonculi or Succubi.

Second, what do these auras even represent?

If the Archon's aura represents his tactical expertise, is it really so strange that he'd be able to apply it by directing non-Kabal units under his command?

And Haemonculi augment pretty much everyone in the Dark City (so long as they can afford it and haven't offended the haemonculi). So there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be able to buff non-Coven units.

PenitentJake wrote:

As for "What would the Wrack do in army without a Haemonculai," you won't like my answer, which is "Not be in that army." Because again, I don't care about winning, or balance or streamlining/ ease of use anywhere near as much as I care about stories, and never since the DE first appeared on the scene have I ever considered fielding a unit in a battle without its corresponding subfaction HQ. Your head cannon may allow you to believe it's fluffy enough, and I suppose I could come up with a narrative where it would be fluffy. But my personal head cannon sees that situation as an exception and not a rule, and I've thought of it that way since DE appeared on the scene.

Sorry but as others here have said, that simply isn't true.

Coven and Cult units can be (and frequently are) hired out to Archons to assist in their raids.

This idea that Coven units work exclusively in Coven-only raiding forces bears absolutely no resemblance to the fluff and is just pointlessly restrictive.

PenitentJake wrote:

But thanks for letting me know there is a precedent from an earlier edition- I might see if I can download a copy of that Corsair book, because I'd like to se the features that made the rule work better for the Corsairs than it does for DE. I don't want to ask you go to a lot of hassle, but if it's a topic of interest, would you mind explaining those features a bit? Might be able to swing them into a house rule if GW doesn't do right by the DE in the new dex.

If you ever intend to play 7th, I cannot recommend the Corsairs book highly enough. IMO it basically functioned as Codex Dark Eldar: Good Version.


As for the Coterie rule, I'm happy to try and explain it in more detail:

Technically, it was called a Corsair Fleet Raiding Company (CFRC). I mention this because 'Coterie' is actually the name of the sub-detachments. The premise was very similar to the DE Realspace Raiders in that you had multiple detachments (the Coteries), almost identical to patrols (just with -1HQ slot and -1 HS slot). Each of these detachments effectively acted independently from the others (treating them only as Allies of Convenience - which generally stopped them sharing buffs and such).

So at a glance it seems almost identical to Realspace Raiders. However, there were a number of key differences:

- Detachments weren't limited (so you weren't restricting your ability to take allies or other detachments by taking a CFRC).

- The CFRC didn't require exactly 3 Coteries. Instead, it would work with 1-4.

- There was no restriction on which units you could take in an individual Coterie (unlike DE, where you're basically locked into Coven, Cult or Kabal). In other words, you were taking this detachment because you wanted to, not because you were forced you into it by restrictive army-building rules. You could just as easily take them in a standard FoC if you wanted.

- Corsairs had access to a very cheap HQ. The Corsair Baron was just 30pts base (and this in an edition where Archons could easily reach 150pts). Obviously you could spend points to tool him up, but even with a little wargear he was still a very cheap HQ (and if you were short of points, there was nothing to stop you just leaving him with just the base pistols). This made the multiple HQ requirement of the CFRC much less painful.

- In addition to the Coterie detachments, each CFRC had a Command Crew, comprising a single HQ and an optional Elite and LoW. The key point is that while all the different Coteries wouldn't work with each other, they would all work with the Command Crew. So any HQ in the Command Crew could affect any/all of the Coterie units with auras, psychic powers etc.


I don't know how well I'm explaining things. It's possible that it's the sort of thing you need to play for yourself to really understand. All I can really say is that it felt much more like a coherent army. Yes, it was split into multiple, competing gangs, but each of those was a complete mini-force in their own right and all were united under a single commander.

With DE, it feels much more like we're playing 3 separate armies with no synergy and no overall commander (in spite of one model allegedly being your Warlord). The reasons why a given commander can't buff a given unit feel arbitrary and it leads to a lot of situations that are both unfluffy and unfun.

You know the sad thing is if we didn't have that multi-faction BS our army would go up in strength considerably. A haemonculus boosting the toughness of bikers that already have the Toughness boost combat drug. Scourge with the range boost from obsidian rose so heat lances from DS are actually valid. Also in the case of Phoenix Rising imagine if Kabals could take dark technomancers for their dissie weapons on ravagers. Imagine if Covens could DS multiple units with the Kabal DS webway spam. Not to mention if beasts even had their sub-faction's trait like with Red Grief.

Sadly GW nerfs us even when they un-nerf us. We'll lower your points costs but we nerf most of your unit sizes so you can't have a unit of 10 grotesques or lots of beasts or anything. We'll get you all excited for Dark eldar by releasing re-vamped old units that didn't need it. Then we'll half ass it even more by giving you nothing for weeks even when it's one of the next releases. Instead we'll show new models for a bunch of older games and the ultramarine's other known special character company commander of which we probably have more ultramarines special characters than the entire dark eldar army now (sicarius, tigurius, uriel ventris, guilliman, calgar, some scout leader i think and god knows what else). I think we have about 4 Special characters. It's just an insult is all.

It's just pretty pathetic when you see GSC and Admech getting probably as many units as dark eldar in a fraction of the time as well as new units. GSC is currently super low tier but at least they get new units to enjoy. For Dark eldar it's mostly finally following through making units we were supposed to have in 5th edition. The only real thing we got since 5th in model form is Dark Scythes weapons and ossefactors and both of those suck now.

Any interesting news, leaks or rumours ?
Haven't bothered watching their preview thing..