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The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

But my god was it amazing.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

But my god was it amazing.

I'll take "Words that will not be said following the preview of the Dark Eldar codex" for 500, Alex.

 vipoid wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

But my god was it amazing.

I'll take "Words that will not be said following the preview of the Dark Eldar codex" for 500, Alex.

Yeah after WHFB got trashed and has been gone for over 5 years (yes it's coming back but they post almost no content on it), dark eldar constantly being one of the red-headed step children of 40k and GW constantly laying blame at the hands of the customer for WHFB or toxic communities or whatever (instead of taking blame themselves or making the community good for everybody), poor game balance, poor treatment of competitive players, poor treatment of long term players and poor treatment of players of somewhat less popular factions and so on it's just hard to want to play GW games anymore.

I mean if i don't play space marines i get screwed. If i play one of the new flavor of the month factions like GSC, harlequins, ynnari or custodes then the likelihood is they either become low tier or GW stops caring about them. Every time GW tries to replicate the popularity of space marines with Space Marines but BETTER! they get attention but eventually get neglected like death watch, grey knights, chaos marines or custodes.

It's just so hard for me to want to play 40k anymore esp. with corona, the price hikes, the distance from my home to game and the infrequent times i can game.

I guess things will be awkward if DE turn out good.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I guess things will be awkward if DE turn out good.

It’s not even necessarily the power of the codex.

If the codex is basically the same as right now, but they cut the price of everything in half, it’d stomp the competitive scene-because even if something is 150% of what it should be now, it’d be 75% of what it should be after halving.

But that wouldn’t be a GOOD codex. It’d be powerful, but bland and unfluffy.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I guess things will be awkward if DE turn out good.

Not really.

The thing is Vipoid is going to be disappointed. You can probably guarantee that there won't be any new DE units. You also *almost certainly* know Archons etc won't get movement options that are not on the model. (Its not impossible there could be invisible wing upgrade, gain M14" - but it seems unlikely.)

Venoms will almost certainly still have a transport capacity of 5 and Raiders a transport capacity of 10.

But DE were up there as one of the top factions in the game after their codex dropped in 8th. You just didn't take Mindphase Gauntlets. You could just advance your movement 8+D6 Archon alongside 3 Ravagers/venoms and maybe two planes for two turns.

Ravagers of course basically made Primaris unplayable (they were not alone in this, but certainly a major cause). 9 Talos were solid too.

Only the Wych Cult wasn't awesome - and even they were probably "viable" on initial codex drop, its only as the edition's inevitable creep kicked in that their power went down and down.

All in all, I'm reasonably confident the power will be there. But if those issues above are the major gripe rather than probability of winning games, disappointment is almost inevitable.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I guess things will be awkward if DE turn out good.

It’s not even necessarily the power of the codex.

If the codex is basically the same as right now, but they cut the price of everything in half, it’d stomp the competitive scene-because even if something is 150% of what it should be now, it’d be 75% of what it should be after halving.

But that wouldn’t be a GOOD codex. It’d be powerful, but bland and unfluffy.

Well, yea - my definition of good would be something that isn't just strong units, but fun units that you get excited to use.

The first Necron codex was phoned in sooo badly. Just bland as all get out. That was pretty early in the start of the edition and DE came right on their heels. I don't think GW really had a good direction yet. You can see it in how they worded rules - especially strats.

9th codexes seem to be consistent in really driving home the uniqueness of the army, so far.

Tyel wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I guess things will be awkward if DE turn out good.

Not really.

The thing is Vipoid is going to be disappointed. You can probably guarantee that there won't be any new DE units. You also *almost certainly* know Archons etc won't get movement options that are not on the model. (Its not impossible there could be invisible wing upgrade, gain M14" - but it seems unlikely.)

Venoms will almost certainly still have a transport capacity of 5 and Raiders a transport capacity of 10.

<snip>

All in all, I'm reasonably confident the power will be there. But if those issues above are the major gripe rather than probability of winning games, disappointment is almost inevitable.

See, I'm not at all confident, given that the adjustments they've shown off demonstrate they don't have a clue what problems they're trying to solve.

'Hey, warriors ride on transports and shoot things'
'Great, lets give them a bonus attack and make their basic anti-infantry option Heavy!'

 vipoid wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

But my god was it amazing.

I'll take "Words that will not be said following the preview of the Dark Eldar codex" for 500, Alex.

Can you elaborate ?

 Argive wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

But my god was it amazing.

I'll take "Words that will not be said following the preview of the Dark Eldar codex" for 500, Alex.

Can you elaborate ?

It seems that they are predicting that the new DE codex will not be a good one.

a later comment talks about WHFB. Did someone say something they shouldn't have ?

Voss wrote:

See, I'm not at all confident, given that the adjustments they've shown off demonstrate they don't have a clue what problems they're trying to solve.

'Hey, warriors ride on transports and shoot things'
'Great, lets give them a bonus attack and make their basic anti-infantry option Heavy!'

Objective control is the name of the game. Getting more durable Kabalites to objectives who can punch better isn't a bad thing. I don't think it is really out of scope for their race either, is it?

Though all Kabalite Warriors are expert combatants at close quarters, few have the influence needed to ensure regeneration in the lairs of the Haemonculi. As a result, Warriors frequently employ heavy weaponry that can slay the foe from afar.

It doesn't really matter to me if DE are bottom of the barrel, as long as they are fun to play and have lots of options.

Fluff and options are the hallmarks of a good codex.

It will probably be the opposite. Hyper competitive unit spam...the worst.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:

See, I'm not at all confident, given that the adjustments they've shown off demonstrate they don't have a clue what problems they're trying to solve.

'Hey, warriors ride on transports and shoot things'
'Great, lets give them a bonus attack and make their basic anti-infantry option Heavy!'

Objective control is the name of the game. Getting more durable Kabalites to objectives who can punch better isn't a bad thing. I don't think it is really out of scope for their race either, is it?

Its out of their scope for the game as it currently works. S3 T3 models standing on objective and punching means jack and squat when they're getting a pile of attacks back (or first) that actually kill them.
It solves zero issues that currently plague the army.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/looxdq/new_kabalite_warrior_datasheets/

Kabalite Warrior Data sheet from reddit:

18in Shredder
D3+3 Dark Lance
AP-3 Agoniser
S2 Splinter rifle

 alextroy wrote:
The preview was all Mortal Realms. No 40K content.

Except Be'lakor, he IS 40K content.
Make me wonder if his arrival in AoS will be at the same time of a new Daemons Codex, but that's neither topic of this thread nor was there a pattern in the past when new Daemons came out.

Really good buffs to Dark Lances and Shredders.

Curious to see what happened to PGLs and how they manage Poison.

18" shredders are good news. Happy to see that, still on the fence with D6 shots as that swing can make them quite unreliable, generally prefer a flat number of shots. Isn't it great now that the shredder synergizes so well with our splinter cannon at 18" range? Oh wait... nevermind. Just another example of how braindead it was to make the SC heavy 3...

D3+3 damage on the DL is awesome, that's a level of reliability I'm excited to see from a single shot weapon. Now haywire blasters will be interesting to compare with cause currently I feel they just don't do enough damage to compare favourably against the new DL.

AP3 agoniser is cool. Interesting to note that unlike our splinter weapons which are poison but now have a Strength stat the agoniser still does not have one.

S2 splinter rifle... once again we don't know the whole picture but this really isn't looking good for our primary rifle. If these aren't improved in some way I'll greatly fear for the viability of our codex barring I'm sure one or two optimal builds that ignore a primary weapon mechanic of our army. And before anyone says it: No stratagems, specific obsessions, warlord traits or auras can't be used to fix an entire swathe of weapons shared across our entire army. It'll be nearly impossible to scale well (or at all) and will force very specific builds to leverage it. The mechanics of your core suite of primary battle rifles, pistols and a few specials needs to be able to stand on its own two feet first and foremost then allow traits and the like to modify it after that. Especially when dealing with an army like Drukhari who lack to survivability to trade blows with any of our opponents. We are glass, we need cannon to compete.

Since it seems splinter weaponry has been left unchanged and in my opinion made worse (SC looking at you) I fear greatly that the Codex writer has no idea what makes a Drukhari army properly tick and I'm pretty much fully expecting Raider capacity 10, Venom capacity 5 and completely unchanged HQ options may be our big revelations of the future.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Interesting to note that unlike our splinter weapons which are poison but now have a Strength stat the agoniser still does not have one.

I think the little star means 'S: user', not 'S: -'

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Interesting to note that unlike our splinter weapons which are poison but now have a Strength stat the agoniser still does not have one.

I think the little star means 'S: user', not 'S: -'

Oh yeah I never even thought of that! Thanks for the insight Duskweaver.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It doesn't really matter to me if DE are bottom of the barrel, as long as they are fun to play and have lots of options.

Fluff and options are the hallmarks of a good codex.

It will probably be the opposite. Hyper competitive unit spam...the worst.

I agree.

IMO the worst case scenario is "hyper competitive unit spam" consisting of resilient objective holders. You lose the whole design philospy of the the faction.

I can't help but think that we're being pushed to ignore infantry and spam vehicles, since apparently DE infantry just aren't allowed good weapons.

Which is fantastic, as vehicle-spam is my most hated playstyle.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It doesn't really matter to me if DE are bottom of the barrel, as long as they are fun to play and have lots of options.

Fluff and options are the hallmarks of a good codex.

It will probably be the opposite. Hyper competitive unit spam...the worst.

Basically this.

Which is fantastic, as vehicle-spam is my most hated playstyle.

Chances to elaborate a bit more?

 vipoid wrote:
I can't help but think that we're being pushed to ignore infantry and spam vehicles, since apparently DE infantry just aren't allowed good weapons.

Which is fantastic, as vehicle-spam is my most hated playstyle.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It doesn't really matter to me if DE are bottom of the barrel, as long as they are fun to play and have lots of options.

Fluff and options are the hallmarks of a good codex.

It will probably be the opposite. Hyper competitive unit spam...the worst.

Basically this.

I love how you ignored the good weapons just previewed on the Kabalite squad. I'm with you, DE need new models and HQ flexibility, but not sure why you're trotting this line out after the objectively great news about Dark Lances. You can take those on Infantry too!

Looks good to me, although points and special rules are still needed.

More potentially good news:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drukhari/comments/lox6gr/wych_datasheet_9th_rebox/

AP on Hekatarii Blades.
Interesting change to Hydra Gauntlets.

+1A across the board, but we don't know if weapons give more attacks too.

Kind of a shame they didn't go up to 5+ armour alongside the 4+ warriors

Hmm, Wyches look pretty decent.

Given that Splinter Rifles are still looking crap, I wonder if there will be a move towards them as the mainstay troops for DE.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I can't help but think that we're being pushed to ignore infantry and spam vehicles, since apparently DE infantry just aren't allowed good weapons.

Which is fantastic, as vehicle-spam is my most hated playstyle.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It doesn't really matter to me if DE are bottom of the barrel, as long as they are fun to play and have lots of options.

Fluff and options are the hallmarks of a good codex.

It will probably be the opposite. Hyper competitive unit spam...the worst.

Basically this.

I love how you ignored the good weapons just previewed on the Kabalite squad. I'm with you, DE need new models and HQ flexibility, but not sure why you're trotting this line out after the objectively great news about Dark Lances. You can take those on Infantry too!

Because, aside from the Shredder, the "good" weapons are also the Heavy weapons. i.e. the ones least useful for mobile Kabalites (and entirely unavailable to any Venom squads).

Meanwhile, the basic weapons, basic pistols, blasters, and blast pistols - i.e. the weapons used by infantry (rather than vehicles) - have received no improvements.

But sure, let's just ignore that fact and pretend that it's good game design for weapons that require you to get within 6" of an enemy to have a worse payoff than those that can be fired from 36" away.

Really happy to see the Dark Lance go to D3+3 damage, as I've said before this now makes it functionally better than the Disintegrator against all T6+ targets regardless of invulns, as it should be. The extra range on the Shredder is a nice surprise, a shame Trueborn aren't a thing anymore as you really needed to be able to take these in multiples per squad to offset the randum shots, will really help Scourge in finding a decent place to deepstrike to make use of them though. The extra AP on the Agoniser is cute but I think the Power Sword is still the better option with +1S, they're equal against T4, the Sword is better against T3 and worse against T5, but if you're fighting T5 units you're either about to die or trying to tie them up with little care for killing them.

Really hard to gage the changes to Wyches as their unique weapons all relied on special rules. The blade getting AP-1 is very nice but does it still give +1A or was that just incorporated into the main stat line. Doe Hydra Gauntles still reroll wounds (would be amazing now they're +2, -2), do you still get D3 extra attacks and reroll hits from the Razorflail and does the Shardnet still boost No Escape (is No Escape still a thing?)?