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I'm no Drukhari player or even Drukhari-curious, but combined with the Durkhari half of Piety and Pain you get:

Combat Patrol

Archon

10 Kabalite Warriors

5 Incubi

Raider

Ravager

Piety and Pain

Lelith Hesperax

10 Wyches

5 Scourges

Venom

Sounds like not a bad start to an army in two purchases, assuming the codex doesn't leave Coven as the best part of the army.

 harlokin wrote:

Voss wrote:
Well, that's that. We knew, but now its official and everything:
Dark Eldar are getting jack and squat, and jack went home.

Have some dice. [Actually the dice are pretty nice. I'm sniggering a bit at the idea that turquoise is 'dark,' however. DE apparently have surprisingly pretty souls.]

The dice are a deep turquoise – as dark as a Drukhari’s soul – with off-white pips and the sigil of the Kabal of the Black Heart in place of the 6

I'm gonna be a bit nitpicky, but it's annoying that GW have switched the DE faction symbol to that of The Kabal of the Black Heart.

That's fair - though I honestly couldn't tell you want the DE faction symbol is. The 2010 codex was the last one I bought and it just has a pointy helmet on the spine.

Its always been a problem with GW, where specific subfactions become the banner wavers for the whole thing. Way back when I was a young 'un, I had an Evil Sunz t-shirt, but couldn't ever find a similar Snakebites shirt. It was either Bad Moons, Evil Sunz or Goffs. Ultramarines are obviously the same kind of thing, and for whatever reason Craftworld stuff often sticks on Biel Tan and Ulthwe.

I think that's been the DE symbol since 7th edition - as per the ally matrix.

Be interested to see the price of the combat patrol. If its a decent discount you could buy 3 and have a reasonable DE force. Afraid Piety and Pain just seems like a grab bag of random stuff that doesn't really help. (I mean its not bad in itself - but it doesn't form the core to anything, and giving you 1 venom so... 5 wyches and probably Lelith run along on foot I guess? feels awful).

Tyel wrote:
I think that's been the DE symbol since 7th edition - as per the ally matrix.

Be interested to see the price of the combat patrol. If its a decent discount you could buy 3 and have a reasonable DE force. Afraid Piety and Pain just seems like a grab bag of random stuff that doesn't really help. (I mean its not bad in itself - but it doesn't form the core to anything, and giving you 1 venom so... 5 wyches and probably Lelith run along on foot I guess? feels awful).

Although the combat patrol is solid and utterly spot-on as a replacement start collecting, it has enough of the really core Kabal stuff that I already have (capped on Ravagers for example , though more Incubi is ever a plus) that I won't buy one.

Conversely, New Lelith, spare wyches to round out my existing three squads with special weapons, a venom (always need more of them) and scourges to finish up an existing project, P&P is just perfect for my tiny niche.

The Combat Patrol's the better product for the line, though.

I have to agree the combat patrol feels like a good box from a starting up point of view, real solid.

Piety and Pain, I'm not a huge fan of the dual faction box sets but looks good if those units will all be good for you, the sister half feels better to me.

The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I have to agree the combat patrol feels like a good box from a starting up point of view, real solid.

Piety and Pain, I'm not a huge fan of the dual faction box sets but looks good if those units will all be good for you, the sister half feels better to me.

The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

I don't think dialed in has the meaning you think it does, I think you were going for phoned in.

@Tyel- I'd hope the CP would be the same as the others so far. It seems early to change pricing. At that price its the archon and the raider 'free.'

---
@Catulle- P&P is odd, just because the DE side overlaps so much with the current (now ex) Start Collecting (and also with Blood of the Phoenix, but that had its own problems). It trades the generic succubus for Lelith and reavers for scourges- its otherwise identical.

If I were to want more DE models, I'd much rather pick up a box of scourges and the start collecting than P&P. Much better value as scourges are a cheaper kit, and that's assuming the price of P&P is reasonable rather than a bloated mess like Blood of the Phoenix. (Given Retributors, Immolator and a Sister character are $55+75+30 (or 35) and Lelith is absolutely going to be more than the $25 succubus, I'll be shocked if the P&P box isn't $180 minimum (two start collecting sets), if not higher.

----

AngryAngel80 wrote:The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

Yeah, that's a bad cover. Even without the weird jumping poses, that's just... blah.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

Ugh, I don't know who the artist is but I fething well hate their work.

Every piece I've seen of theirs just looks like they badly-photoshopped a load of Dark Eldar characters onto the world's most generic background.

"What do Dark Eldar vehicles look like again? Ah, sod it, I'll just draw some green-orange blobs in the sky. No one will notice."

Comparing the new DE cover to the other covers of this edition it's around the same as all the others. GE's new cover art is all safe and clean digital art with very little personality.

That said if you changed the orange background on codex DE to a cool green or blue and added a few spikes and spires behind them I think it would look just fine.

Voss wrote:
@Catulle- P&P is odd, just because the DE side overlaps so much with the current (now ex) Start Collecting (and also with Blood of the Phoenix, but that had its own problems). It trades the generic succubus for Lelith and reavers for scourges- its otherwise identical.

If I were to want more DE models, I'd much rather pick up a box of scourges and the start collecting than P&P. Much better value as scourges are a cheaper kit, and that's assuming the price of P&P is reasonable rather than a bloated mess like Blood of the Phoenix. (Given Retributors, Immolator and a Sister character are $55+75+30 (or 35) and Lelith is absolutely going to be more than the $25 succubus, I'll be shocked if the P&P box isn't $180 minimum (two start collecting sets), if not higher.

Yeah, for sure my interest is the product of my *very* specific circumstances (including a partner in crime who's in it for the Sisters) but I'm not going to look the box set gift horse in the mouth as the stars align this time!

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I have to agree the combat patrol feels like a good box from a starting up point of view, real solid.

Piety and Pain, I'm not a huge fan of the dual faction box sets but looks good if those units will all be good for you, the sister half feels better to me.

The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

Really? honestly, I've loved that style since the 8th 'dex.I love the more alien look for Drukhari that artist has.

IMO that DE cover looks dogshit.
Personal opinion.

Not enough detail in the background, weird pose of the main subject. Face is all kinda wierd... Just very meh.

I have to say, the cover art ain't great. But a lot of GW cove art isn't good tbh.

I'm more concerned about the quality of what's inside it than what's on the cover. Hope to be proved wrong, but they haven't exactly blown anyone's mind with the previews; if there's some interesting new ideas lurking in there, they've kept pretty silent about it thus far.

Haven't had a computer for a month so caught back up on Warhammer Community articles, am I crazy or is Lelith's melee so dogshit that she only kills a single marine on average if she doesn't double fight?

Jesus Christ.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm more concerned about the quality of what's inside it than what's on the cover. Hope to be proved wrong, but they haven't exactly blown anyone's mind with the previews; if there's some interesting new ideas lurking in there, they've kept pretty silent about it thus far.

Yeah. I'm remaining open-minded, but the previews thus far haven't been terribly exciting. I think the changes to marines (and to a lesser extent, necrons) were so extreme that damage 2 splinter cannons with fewer shots and an extra attack on kabalites seem kind of underwhelming.

 vipoid wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:

The codex cover art looks awful, sorry it feels so dialed in and spiritless I hope we can't judge the book by its cover in this case.

Ugh, I don't know who the artist is but I fething well hate their work.

Every piece I've seen of theirs just looks like they badly-photoshopped a load of Dark Eldar characters onto the world's most generic background.

"What do Dark Eldar vehicles look like again? Ah, sod it, I'll just draw some green-orange blobs in the sky. No one will notice."

Yeah, I really don't want to trash on it I just don't like it at all. It feels too, meh. Too clean, lacking soul, with a lot of random nothing and the poses look pretty poor, to me anyways. I get this is a personal opinion thing but I have generally liked all of the Dark Eldar coves for awhile this one feels bad to me though. As was said by others, it feels in a similar vein to other book drops but while I maybe wasn't a huge fan of those this just looks bad to me. Which feels like an all around issue, design, color use, pose on who we can see. I know a cover is a minor gripe so anyone reading this I'm not saying the book will be awful for sure, the cover is awful to me though.

I guess it's in spirit of the army as it causes me suffering just to look on it.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Haven't had a computer for a month so caught back up on Warhammer Community articles, am I crazy or is Lelith's melee so dogshit that she only kills a single marine on average if she doesn't double fight?

Jesus Christ.

Yep, i really hope we can get that D2 impaler, otherwise she will bounce on marine lol, not even starting with gravis

Does piety and pain contain new models? Or is the DE codex being released with zero new sculpts

mrFickle wrote:
Does piety and pain contain new models? Or is the DE codex being released with zero new sculpts

0 for what we know now, just lelith new model

mrFickle wrote:
Does piety and pain contain new models? Or is the DE codex being released with zero new sculpts

Piety and Pain contains the new (and slightly polarising) Lelith Hesperax model. No other new sculpts have been teased, so it is probable that she is the only one.

 harlokin wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Does piety and pain contain new models? Or is the DE codex being released with zero new sculpts

Piety and Pain contains the new (and slightly polarising) Lelith Hesperax model. No other new sculpts have been teased, so it is probable that she is the only one.

It's 100% certain she's the only one.

The fact that Dark Eldar are only getting one new model fills me with dread for when it comes time for the new Craftworlds book.

I don't link what Drukhari gets to what Craftworld gets. Nobody knows how GW will please or fail us except GW themselves.

"Here come the pointy elves" you wouldn't know it judging from GW's none existent attempts to build hype.

 Imateria wrote:
"Here come the pointy elves" you wouldn't know it judging from GW's none existent attempts to build hype.

maybe they know that we're a bunch of bitter, insanely negative neckbeards who would gladly spew bile in the FB comment section of any reveal they give us.

.....because they're not going to be giving us any of the things that we've actually been asking for for years and years and years and are instead doing weird stuff like making splinter weapons Strength 2 instead of Strength 1 and finding a way to split the faction into 19 separately keyworded subfactions each with their own traits.

It's amazing to me just how little effort it would actually take to make the dark eldar community insanely happy. I could whip up everybody's favorite drukhari codex since 5th in an afternoon if i had free reign to put in a few "Official conversion guides" for how to mix the incredibly versatile and fully compatible model range together to create various builds and characters.

"Take this head, this weapon and this body and put it on this skyboard and that right there is your official Baron miniature, 100% our plastic, copyright us, anyone selling an alternative to this is doing a naughty and we will sue them."

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Haven't had a computer for a month so caught back up on Warhammer Community articles, am I crazy or is Lelith's melee so dogshit that she only kills a single marine on average if she doesn't double fight?

Jesus Christ.

Apparently at 90 pts shes betetr then a smash captain... So ive been told.. That is of course until you factor in relics, traits and doctrines.

 Argive wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Haven't had a computer for a month so caught back up on Warhammer Community articles, am I crazy or is Lelith's melee so dogshit that she only kills a single marine on average if she doesn't double fight?

Jesus Christ.

Apparently at 90 pts shes betetr then a smash captain... So ive been told.. That is of course until you factor in relics, traits and doctrines.

Depends what you're trying to kill.

A Primaris Captain (5 Attacks and Shock Assault) with a Master Crafted Power Sword does...

6 attacks
5 hits
10/3 wounds
50/18 or 25/9 failed saves, for 2-3 Dead MEQ

Lelith (7 attacks, conditional Fight Twice) does...
7 attacks
7 hits
7/2 wounds
35/12 failed saves, for about 1.5 dead MEQ, then double that for Fighting Twice

Notably, if she fails to body a MEQ, she just stops cold. Though that'll only happen about 15% of the time, according to AnyDice.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Notably, if she fails to body a MEQ, she just stops cold. Though that'll only happen about 15% of the time, according to AnyDice.

And she may still be +1A from Strife, which cuts that down a little. She may also give herself reroll 1s if Necrons are any indication.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Haven't had a computer for a month so caught back up on Warhammer Community articles, am I crazy or is Lelith's melee so dogshit that she only kills a single marine on average if she doesn't double fight?

Jesus Christ.

Apparently at 90 pts shes betetr then a smash captain... So ive been told.. That is of course until you factor in relics, traits and doctrines.

Depends what you're trying to kill.

A Primaris Captain (5 Attacks and Shock Assault) with a Master Crafted Power Sword does...

6 attacks
5 hits
10/3 wounds
50/18 or 25/9 failed saves, for 2-3 Dead MEQ

Lelith (7 attacks, conditional Fight Twice) does...
7 attacks
7 hits
7/2 wounds
35/12 failed saves, for about 1.5 dead MEQ, then double that for Fighting Twice

Notably, if she fails to body a MEQ, she just stops cold. Though that'll only happen about 15% of the time, according to AnyDice.

Right, and then you compare her to say, a chainsword or double lightning claw captain and she costs less and shreds more GEQ type models.

If only anyone were using GEQ in the meta right now, she might have a job. Personally, I expect her to keep her current 3++ invuln defenses and to be likely to be capable of killing most basic HQs, albeit not in a single fight phase (it'll probably take 2 with most things she can successfully kill, which isn't as bad as it'd usually be thanks to No Escape.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Notably, if she fails to body a MEQ, she just stops cold. Though that'll only happen about 15% of the time, according to AnyDice.

And she may still be +1A from Strife, which cuts that down a little. She may also give herself reroll 1s if Necrons are any indication.

Nah, it'll be <cult> CORE units, which will be wyches hellions and reavers. Unless the drukhari codex skips core entirely, lelith's buff will be core only.