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Even if they keep the datasheet, that doesn't necessarily mean they have the same options. I remember in 7th, I think? That Trueborn and Kabalites shared a datasheet and it was a complicated, unnecessary mess.

Could easily be "if this unit is a TRUEBORN unit, it may replace 4 weapons with [list]".

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
I think Kurt got confused and thought we were talking about Trueborns, which do keep the same datasheet as kabalites as far as we know.

That is most likely true.

Rihgu wrote:
Even if they keep the datasheet, that doesn't necessarily mean they have the same options. I remember in 7th, I think? That Trueborn and Kabalites shared a datasheet and it was a complicated, unnecessary mess.

Could easily be "if this unit is a TRUEBORN unit, it may replace 4 weapons with [list]".

Whilst true, we have no real reason to believe they'll do something as cool as let you take extra special weapons.

Well, other than the fact that they did last ed, and every ed ever and they haven't announced they're changing it.

Like I'd say there's far more "evidence" that it won't change than there is that it will.

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, other than the fact that they did last ed, and every ed ever and they haven't announced they're changing it.

Like I'd say there's far more "evidence" that it won't change than there is that it will.

Are we talking about trueborn or scourges here? Because all other "unit upgrades" in the game uses the base datasheet and adds/modifies rules on top.
So far, the Trueborn rule we've seen does not specifically add different weapons options.

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

Yup, and Achons being forced to take Splinter Pistols.

 harlokin wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

Yup, and Achons being forced to take Splinter Pistols.

Doesnt the archon kit also have a blast pistol at least?

haha...nope, guess not! LOL. god I love GW's no model no rules idiocy.

Yeah there is a 0.000% chance trueborns get more weapon options than the base kit. I would say it's a high chance that you will no longer be allowed to do anything you can't build out of the box (i.e. 10 man squad with a pair of blasters).

Weird that you're not allowed to build a 5-man squad with a dark lance, though...that's something I can do out of the box....

It'd be rather frustrating, considering I don't think Devastators are limited to only two of each heavy weapon in their squads like their box comes with.

Ail-Shan wrote:
It'd be rather frustrating, considering I don't think Devastators are limited to only two of each heavy weapon in their squads like their box comes with.

Don't mention the fact that all the general unspoken 'rules' about wargear, subfaction tactics, army purity rules, feel no pain saves, deep strike, etc only seem to partially or not at all apply to one particular army, it makes them very sensitive.

Ail-Shan wrote:
It'd be rather frustrating, considering I don't think Devastators are limited to only two of each heavy weapon in their squads like their box comes with.

After the garbage we got from the Death Guard codex I'm shocked it didn't happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Ail-Shan wrote:
It'd be rather frustrating, considering I don't think Devastators are limited to only two of each heavy weapon in their squads like their box comes with.

Don't mention the fact that all the general unspoken 'rules' about wargear, subfaction tactics, army purity rules, feel no pain saves, deep strike, etc only seem to partially or not at all apply to one particular army, it makes them very sensitive.

Genestealer Cults cry

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, other than the fact that they did last ed, and every ed ever and they haven't announced they're changing it.

Like I'd say there's far more "evidence" that it won't change than there is that it will.

Are we talking about trueborn or scourges here? Because all other "unit upgrades" in the game uses the base datasheet and adds/modifies rules on top.
So far, the Trueborn rule we've seen does not specifically add different weapons options.

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

Talking about scourges. Could be wrong, because I didn't bother digging up old dexes, but I think they've been able to carry 4heavy weapons for as long as they've existed, there's been no hints whatsoever that their load out is changing, and they feature in the Codex release box, which should make a nerf at least somewhat less likely.

As far as I know, the only reason that people have to suspect a load out change is that Plague Marines got one?

PenitentJake wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, other than the fact that they did last ed, and every ed ever and they haven't announced they're changing it.

Like I'd say there's far more "evidence" that it won't change than there is that it will.

Are we talking about trueborn or scourges here? Because all other "unit upgrades" in the game uses the base datasheet and adds/modifies rules on top.
So far, the Trueborn rule we've seen does not specifically add different weapons options.

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

Talking about scourges. Could be wrong, because I didn't bother digging up old dexes, but I think they've been able to carry 4heavy weapons for as long as they've existed, there's been no hints whatsoever that their load out is changing, and they feature in the Codex release box, which should make a nerf at least somewhat less likely.

As far as I know, the only reason that people have to suspect a load out change is that Plague Marines got one?

yeah, its purely speculation based on the PM/BL loadout changes. I'm hoping it was a 1-of thing but i see no reason why GW would do that specifically to DG only.

PM and our Terminators, although weirdly for Terminators they only went half the way there, guns are limited to the box but axes/swords are mix as you want despite the box not coming with enough for say all axes or all swords.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
I think Kurt got confused and thought we were talking about Trueborns, which do keep the same datasheet as kabalites as far as we know.

Yep I was thinking of Kabalites/Trueborn, Scourges will definitely still keep their 4 weapons per squad

PenitentJake wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, other than the fact that they did last ed, and every ed ever and they haven't announced they're changing it.

Like I'd say there's far more "evidence" that it won't change than there is that it will.

Are we talking about trueborn or scourges here? Because all other "unit upgrades" in the game uses the base datasheet and adds/modifies rules on top.
So far, the Trueborn rule we've seen does not specifically add different weapons options.

As for scrouge being able to take 4x a non shardcarbine weapon, this is going to be the real test to know if GW's philosphy towards "No model, no rules" just went in turbo mode

Talking about scourges. Could be wrong, because I didn't bother digging up old dexes, but I think they've been able to carry 4heavy weapons for as long as they've existed, there's been no hints whatsoever that their load out is changing, and they feature in the Codex release box, which should make a nerf at least somewhat less likely.

As far as I know, the only reason that people have to suspect a load out change is that Plague Marines got one?

Actually, special weapons were 2 per 5 for Scourge in the 5th ed codex. Thats one codex they definitely didn't do well in.

 Castozor wrote:
PM and our Terminators, although weirdly for Terminators they only went half the way there, guns are limited to the box but axes/swords are mix as you want despite the box not coming with enough for say all axes or all swords.

Daemon prince also was affected - if you want the loadout of the finecast model (spitter/sword), you can no longer take wings.

well trueborn arent a kit and yet we have rules.

No model no rules is fine as long as its a stratagem like relics or traits but not wargear... GW philosophy is do dumb...

 Argive wrote:
well trueborn arent a kit and yet we have rules.

No model no rules is fine as long as its a stratagem like relics or traits but not wargear... GW philosophy is do dumb...

Most likely Trueborn will have the same wargear options as Kabalites, similar to veteran intercessors and Red Butcher terminators, and therefore just use the standard Kabalites kit.

GW's policy on that topic is weird.

Look at sisters. You have an ultra specific datasheet for the canoness, and then the BASIC TROOP unit instead uses loads of options that are not on its sprue.

And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

Retributors only come with 2 of each Heavy Weapon. Sisters of Battle Squad comes with more of the special weapons.

So if this continues I guess SoB will be affected in some ways.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

Yeah, my "bonus blasters" came from the secondary market and plundering my scourges.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

AH thats right Rets has their own, but Doms and Celes don't. Celes are just Trueborn for sisters. I just want the same treatment at least let me have trueborn out of kabals too.....

Catulle wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

Yeah, my "bonus blasters" came from the secondary market and plundering my scourges.

Same for me, but the smart money is on Shredders being the new hotness, apparently.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
And that same sprue is used for many units, rets, doms, celes, but Trueborn can be the same sprue as kabals? seriously?

doesnt that sisters kit come with 4x each of the special weapons so that you can make any of these units? The kabalite sprue only has 1 blaster/shredder I think? (got all mine second hand)

AH thats right Rets has their own, but Doms and Celes don't. Celes are just Trueborn for sisters. I just want the same treatment at least let me have trueborn out of kabals too.....

Technically, from GW's perspective at least, Celestians have their own helmets (with the fleur icons) that distinguish them from battle sisters and dominions. And also somehow that box is 5 Cels AND 5 Doms or 10 battle sisters, rather than 10 of one of the three. No idea if that makes any sense, but that's how they sell it.

Well, I guess all speculation should be settled later today. Should be interesting.

 harlokin wrote:
Same for me, but the smart money is on Shredders being the new hotness, apparently.

Yeah... though given my shredders are at least in part assigned to a unit of bat-winged scourges... let's just say I'm building some (hopefully unfounded) anxiety about having the weapon rug pulled out from under them. The temptation to Chicken Little is at times overwhelming.

A few leaks finally starting to come, things are looking are definitely looking better, a bump to transport capacity on Raiders and venoms is much appreciated.

 Imateria wrote:
A few leaks finally starting to come, things are looking are definitely looking better, a bump to transport capacity on Raiders and venoms is much appreciated.

copied from reddit

Hooks - Add 3 to the Attacks attribute (holy gak)
Grisly Trophies - (Aura) - Subtract 2 from Ld for enemy units within 3" (huh!).

Edge Artist - No idea what this is...but interesting...

Power from Pain - Suspected...but confirmed now.

Flickerfield - -1 to hit against shooting. 5++ Invulnerable Save against shooting.

Explodes - the usual

Hover (Gravitic?) - Distances are measured from the model, not the base.

Open Topped - The usual, I think. Didn't translate the whole thing but it looks like standard Open Topped wording.

Transports 6

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Notably doesnt have core.