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Umbros wrote:

The problem is they teased things, COVID/Brexit caused delays, but kept teasing things so there is a real blockage. Too many things have been teased and not released.

Keep in mind though without covid/brexit we would by now just have release dark eldar and looking at next one around now so about 1-2 codex behind schedule.

Umbros wrote:

The problem is they teased things, COVID/Brexit caused delays, but kept teasing things so there is a real blockage. Too many things have been teased and not released.

The real problem is that there is no pleasing many of you.
You'll bitch & whine incessantly no matter what happens.
●Something is teased but delayed? WAAAH! They're teasing product they can't deliver! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●They don't say anything? WAAAH! They're keeping us in the dark! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●Something is teased? WAAAH! It's not what I wanted! GW = bad, evil, incompetent.
And this despite the fact that so many of you aren't playing much due to the same pandemic that's screwing up GWs release schedule.
So it's not like it matters when _____ gets released....

ccs wrote:

Umbros wrote:

The problem is they teased things, COVID/Brexit caused delays, but kept teasing things so there is a real blockage. Too many things have been teased and not released.

The real problem is that there is no pleasing many of you.
You'll bitch & whine incessantly no matter what happens.
●Something is teased but delayed? WAAAH! They're teasing product they can't deliver! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●They don't say anything? WAAAH! They're keeping us in the dark! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●Something is teased? WAAAH! It's not what I wanted! GW = bad, evil, incompetent.
And this despite the fact that so many of you aren't playing much due to the same pandemic that's screwing up GWs release schedule.
So it's not like it matters when _____ gets released....

Not to dogpile Umbros here. But the OP definitely seems to be “I want my Codex now, and sod everyone else” rather than a genuine commentary on the overall release schedule.

I remember back when GW Never teased anything, and then all of a sudden there would be a new codex and a bunch of model kits for release no-one saw coming. Folks complained that they wished GW would give teasers for what's coming in the future, so they could have an idea.

Now GW does release teasers, and folks complain there are too many teases.

Leaving CSM with 1 wound marines for so long after SM got them is my only quibble with the release schedule.

Agreed. All the CSM, Grey Knights etc should have all had an errata with "These models have an extra wound" and a points increase of a few points a model. That'd have been a wonderful way to cover them until their codex's came out.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Not to dogpile Umbros here. But the OP definitely seems to be “I want my Codex now, and sod everyone else” rather than a genuine commentary on the overall release schedule.

It makes sense though, why would or should you care about other people books ? it is not like they care about yours and how fun it is to play with your army.

Karol wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Not to dogpile Umbros here. But the OP definitely seems to be “I want my Codex now, and sod everyone else” rather than a genuine commentary on the overall release schedule.

It makes sense though, why would or should you care about other people books ? it is not like they care about yours and how fun it is to play with your army.

You're wrong. Again. Yes, it is fun to play against interesting and well written codexes with their own tricks. You're wrong if you think otherwise. A codex ought to be enjoyable, or at least interesting to play against, WH40k is not a zero sum game. You're in a social interaction and game for 2 or so hours with another human. Have some empathy.

I stopped paying attention after I bought the infamous Agents of the Imperium book at the end of 7th to see it useless in less time than it took me to appreciate the new tacticool computer “art”... never again.

bat702 wrote:
I feel like in 9th edition they are really teasing us with releases, especially codex's releases, there are alot of armies that need a new codex, like guard, craftworlds, chaos space marines. I feel games-workshop is trying to sell us on buying additional armies by teasing us with releases, withholding the release of new codex's, I feel we wont get a new guard codex until 2022 or something sad..

We're in the middle of a global pandemic that's affecting workers and shipping/distribution of materials across the entirety of the globe. I'm pretty sure that GW isn't "teasing us with releases", they're probably just as frustrated that everything is made so much more difficult by Covid.

 jeff white wrote:
I stopped paying attention after I bought the infamous Agents of the Imperium book at the end of 7th to see it useless in less time than it took me to appreciate the new tacticool computer “art”... never again.

Ya do post an awful lot about a thing you don’t like given that was over 3.5 years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

bat702 wrote:
I feel like in 9th edition they are really teasing us with releases, especially codex's releases, there are alot of armies that need a new codex, like guard, craftworlds, chaos space marines. I feel games-workshop is trying to sell us on buying additional armies by teasing us with releases, withholding the release of new codex's, I feel we wont get a new guard codex until 2022 or something sad..

We're in the middle of a global pandemic that's affecting workers and shipping/distribution of materials across the entirety of the globe. I'm pretty sure that GW isn't "teasing us with releases", they're probably just as frustrated that everything is made so much more difficult by Covid.

Indeed. They’ve stated as much on occasion. They have missed their own schedules a lot.

 Thadin wrote:


You're wrong. Again. Yes, it is fun to play against interesting and well written codexes with their own tricks. You're wrong if you think otherwise. A codex ought to be enjoyable, or at least interesting to play against, WH40k is not a zero sum game. You're in a social interaction and game for 2 or so hours with another human. Have some empathy.

It seems very zero sum to me. Each time any faction gets a fun and good set of rules, it gets attacked that it should have had goten bad rules. And sometimes it comes from people who no long ago enjoyed a really good rule set. With DA for example, some marine players don't like the fact that to marine players it seems as, if DA were too good.

And I do have empathy, or at least I think I understand how people think about their and not their armies in w40k. People want their stuff to be good and fun, and generaly don't care about armies they don't play. And they are very much against factions that make their fun lower getting buffs. Now they do hide it behind big words like game balance and fun for everyone, but just like with real life this is just a good looking smoke screen for wanting their stuff to be the good stuff. And I don't even think think it is a bad thing, well the wanting not the hidding stuff, the hidding stuff is just confusing to me, the way GW makes and updates rules, it is always going to be better to have an OP set of rules, then balances ones. When the GK codex came out in 8th the people working on it talked a ton about how they wanted to balance it, and how balanced it is going to be. And I don't think I have to tell anyone how fun the balance 8th ed GK codex was.

Voss wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Honestly tho, this is a painfully slow codex release,

Stop. This is _not_ a painfully slow anything, let alone codex release schedule, and thats _with_ the Covid/Shipping delays.

Go back a decade or so, and you'll find 3-4 codex releases in a full year. Some armies would find entire editions (or even multiple editions) pass without an update. Dark Eldar and Wood Elves got to enjoy a full decade hiatus from new army books.

If anything, 8th edition set up people to expect things way too fast. I don't know why people want rules and purchases to be outdated before they get an army assembled, painted and on the table, but it isn't healthy for the game.

It still is slow, just because its better than it used to be doesnt mean its fun to wait multiple months with an army that doesnt function in 9th


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

 Thadin wrote:


You're wrong. Again. Yes, it is fun to play against interesting and well written codexes with their own tricks. You're wrong if you think otherwise. A codex ought to be enjoyable, or at least interesting to play against, WH40k is not a zero sum game. You're in a social interaction and game for 2 or so hours with another human. Have some empathy.

It seems very zero sum to me. Each time any faction gets a fun and good set of rules, it gets attacked that it should have had goten bad rules. And sometimes it comes from people who no long ago enjoyed a really good rule set. With DA for example, some marine players don't like the fact that to marine players it seems as, if DA were too good.

And I do have empathy, or at least I think I understand how people think about their and not their armies in w40k. People want their stuff to be good and fun, and generaly don't care about armies they don't play. And they are very much against factions that make their fun lower getting buffs. Now they do hide it behind big words like game balance and fun for everyone, but just like with real life this is just a good looking smoke screen for wanting their stuff to be the good stuff. And I don't even think think it is a bad thing, well the wanting not the hidding stuff, the hidding stuff is just confusing to me, the way GW makes and updates rules, it is always going to be better to have an OP set of rules, then balances ones. When the GK codex came out in 8th the people working on it talked a ton about how they wanted to balance it, and how balanced it is going to be. And I don't think I have to tell anyone how fun the balance 8th ed GK codex was.

as usual, you're missing the point. Its not a smoke screen, people genuinely enjoy playing armies that are on an even field. Me destroying a tau player brings me nothing but pain, i feel bad when it happens, i even try and "cheat" my rolls to be worse or forget some of my rules so that the game is closer.

I do not enjoy a game when the person across from me is frustrated and annoyed for two and a half hours. It doesn't make for good conversation, as much as the person and I may be friends outside of the game.

I've been the person, frustrated and annoyed for the game, and my opponent who wasn't as much of a friend to me, told me as much that it kinda sucked for him too. That one moment where someone said that it sucked the enjoyment out of the game really opened my eyes to what makes for a fun game of warhammer.

"It takes 2 to make a thing go right"

ccs wrote:

Umbros wrote:

The problem is they teased things, COVID/Brexit caused delays, but kept teasing things so there is a real blockage. Too many things have been teased and not released.

The real problem is that there is no pleasing many of you.
You'll bitch & whine incessantly no matter what happens.
●Something is teased but delayed? WAAAH! They're teasing product they can't deliver! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●They don't say anything? WAAAH! They're keeping us in the dark! GW = bad, evil, incompetent!
●Something is teased? WAAAH! It's not what I wanted! GW = bad, evil, incompetent.
And this despite the fact that so many of you aren't playing much due to the same pandemic that's screwing up GWs release schedule.
So it's not like it matters when _____ gets released....

I agree, but I'm very positive in my posts lol.

 Thadin wrote:
I do not enjoy a game when the person across from me is frustrated and annoyed for two and a half hours. It doesn't make for good conversation, as much as the person and I may be friends outside of the game.

I've been the person, frustrated and annoyed for the game, and my opponent who wasn't as much of a friend to me, told me as much that it kinda sucked for him too. That one moment where someone said that it sucked the enjoyment out of the game really opened my eyes to what makes for a fun game of warhammer.

Nothing worse than watching someone make every move and basically pants you in terms of game play skill and you win because someone at GW sucks at their job.
That goes the same both ways.

The best games are the ones that come down to the epic single roll.
Not the blow out games that are about as lopsided as thre people using a seesaw by all sitting on the same side.

 Thadin wrote:
I do not enjoy a game when the person across from me is frustrated and annoyed for two and a half hours. It doesn't make for good conversation, as much as the person and I may be friends outside of the game.

I've been the person, frustrated and annoyed for the game, and my opponent who wasn't as much of a friend to me, told me as much that it kinda sucked for him too. That one moment where someone said that it sucked the enjoyment out of the game really opened my eyes to what makes for a fun game of warhammer.

Personal philosophy - if you can't have fun losing then you're doing it wrong.

Not that this applies universally, but I can't recall a game I lost badly in where I didn't immediately start thinking about how to close the gap next time.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

bat702 wrote:
Honestly tho, this is a painfully slow codex release,

Stop. This is _not_ a painfully slow anything, let alone codex release schedule, and thats _with_ the Covid/Shipping delays.

Go back a decade or so, and you'll find 3-4 codex releases in a full year. Some armies would find entire editions (or even multiple editions) pass without an update. Dark Eldar and Wood Elves got to enjoy a full decade hiatus from new army books.

If anything, 8th edition set up people to expect things way too fast. I don't know why people want rules and purchases to be outdated before they get an army assembled, painted and on the table, but it isn't healthy for the game.

It still is slow, just because its better than it used to be doesnt mean its fun to wait multiple months with an army that doesnt function in 9th

I actually found the 'lightning round' updates of 8th edition much _worse_ than it used to be. From the indexes to Vigilis to the codexes to PA, a lot of 8th edition stuff just wasn't worth buying, because the use lifetime was ridiculously short.

If you want to argue for get-you-by rules pdfs with a new edition, I won't argue against that.
But I'll definitely argue against the 'disposable updates for cash' multiple times in an edition that was ridiculously short, even by modern GW standards. I'd rather have a 5 year or even 10 year turn around on codexes again. I wouldn't be happy with 10, but I'd prefer it to a pile of self-immolating crap that I didn't even bother to buy or use.

bat702 wrote:
I feel like in 9th edition they are really teasing us with releases, especially codex's releases, there are alot of armies that need a new codex, like guard, craftworlds, chaos space marines. I feel games-workshop is trying to sell us on buying additional armies by teasing us with releases, withholding the release of new codex's, I feel we wont get a new guard codex until 2022 or something sad..

Or theres a global pandemic, combined with an international shipping clusterfeth, coupled with a semi-intentionally/artifically created international trade disaster, etc. that has slowed down their release schedule by more than 50% (not an exaggeration, aside from the fact that they were shut down 100% for about 3 months and have had various periods of reduced capacity since then, if you haven't noticed theyve been working a fortnightly release schedule for some time now instead of their previous weekly schedule).

The Death Guard codex that released ~3 weeks ago was originally suppsosed to have released in the September/October timeframe, the delayed release of 9th from late May/early June to late-July pushed Codex DG: back to the November/December timeframe, and it was delayed again to late January. You're talking a 4-5 month time slip - at least - from when things were originally expected to go on sale. Death Guard isn't the only codex that was impacted by this, everything else has slid to the right too. The reason they are "teasing" you with things is quite simply because if they didn't tease you they wouldn't have much to talk about because how slow things are to come out at the moment.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Thadin wrote:
I do not enjoy a game when the person across from me is frustrated and annoyed for two and a half hours. It doesn't make for good conversation, as much as the person and I may be friends outside of the game.

I've been the person, frustrated and annoyed for the game, and my opponent who wasn't as much of a friend to me, told me as much that it kinda sucked for him too. That one moment where someone said that it sucked the enjoyment out of the game really opened my eyes to what makes for a fun game of warhammer.

Personal philosophy - if you can't have fun losing then you're doing it wrong.

Not that this applies universally, but I can't recall a game I lost badly in where I didn't immediately start thinking about how to close the gap next time.

That said there's a difference between losing because you played less skilfully than your opponent and can use what you've learned to play better next time; and losing because the game's inherent balance means that even when you both bring solid lists; one side is significantly weaker than the other.

One of those is something you can improve upon with practice, learning and skill. The other is near impossible to work around because its built into the whole structure of the game.

The latter DOES get blamed more than it should, many a bad player blames balance without even thinking that the issue might be themselves. However it is still present in many situations and where it is it can breed a horrible kind of negative experience for both sides. The winner is winning, but not because of anything they have done; the loser is losing for the same reason. The end result is neither player feels invested nor engaged with the game and they each leave with a less than positive experience for differing reasons.



OF course there are always those who love to win no matter what and who actually like imbalanced games when they can easily army-swap so that they can always have the currently most powerful broken army to win with.

 Overread wrote:
That's been GW's tactic since day 1 30 years ago

I mean its kinda their job to sell you models and armies.


As for codex releases, it wasn't that long ago that you'd wait 6 months to see 1 codex and even then you might well not have every army make it to the end of an edition and get a codex (Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar both skipped editions or at least got them so late it didn't matter).


Right now they are going along at a blazing speed and the only reason its not been faster is because of Corona. Seriously last year its clear that had a big impact because the brand new Indomitus Necrons and Marines had to wait 1-2 months for codex releases. Clearly things were messed up.


That said they are coming fast and thick these days - esp when you remember that GW is also releasing them fast for AoS (who are getting 2 this month and have a near codex sized update for Lumineth likely in March/April as well).

I believe that only Space Marines have had a codex every edition.
Eldar might also have got one every edition, but I'm not sure enough to put money on that because I think they might have missed 5th or something.


The current sisters codex is only our third proper codex in the history of the army. I think Dark Eldar might also be on their third or fourth.



I'm not really a fan of their new release pace. I would rather have slower releases with each codex release including new units, models, etc. That's the way I at least perceived it being in the past, and I think it was definitely better since new kits are always more exciting than just a book, and it kind of made sure there were a line of new kits coming out for most factions.

Voss wrote:

I actually found the 'lightning round' updates of 8th edition much _worse_ than it used to be. From the indexes to Vigilis to the codexes to PA, a lot of 8th edition stuff just wasn't worth buying, because the use lifetime was ridiculously short.

If you want to argue for get-you-by rules pdfs with a new edition, I won't argue against that.
But I'll definitely argue against the 'disposable updates for cash' multiple times in an edition that was ridiculously short, even by modern GW standards. I'd rather have a 5 year or even 10 year turn around on codexes again. I wouldn't be happy with 10, but I'd prefer it to a pile of self-immolating crap that I didn't even bother to buy or use.

Actually, i'd argue for Codexes to be released all at once when the edition starts, with campaign books (vigilus, PA) being added mid-edition.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

I actually found the 'lightning round' updates of 8th edition much _worse_ than it used to be. From the indexes to Vigilis to the codexes to PA, a lot of 8th edition stuff just wasn't worth buying, because the use lifetime was ridiculously short.

If you want to argue for get-you-by rules pdfs with a new edition, I won't argue against that.
But I'll definitely argue against the 'disposable updates for cash' multiple times in an edition that was ridiculously short, even by modern GW standards. I'd rather have a 5 year or even 10 year turn around on codexes again. I wouldn't be happy with 10, but I'd prefer it to a pile of self-immolating crap that I didn't even bother to buy or use.

Actually, i'd argue for Codexes to be released all at once when the edition starts, with campaign books (vigilus, PA) being added mid-edition.

Agreed somewhat. The big issue is that when you go and add a lot of units in one go for a marketing boost to an army; that can be a big fundamental change to how the army has to work. So either you put those units in the codex to start with and then 3rd parties flood the market before GW can bring the models to the market themselves; or you leave them out and the codex feels half-baked for years; or you make the expansion book basically a new codex in all but name.


I think the real issue right now isn't the release pace of codex, its the cycling speed of whole editions and the nature of change when new editions turn up. I think if GW slowed editions themselves so that by the time they release the last updated codex, there's perhaps 3 or 4 years before a new edition. That leaves time for .5 codex updates and expansions but also time for the game to settle. It would also help if new editions were subtle updates instead of big sweeping changes.


In general though there's a sweet spot to magically find where you can update enough that people are getting a good rate of new models and new rules; but not so fast that people feel pressured.


PArt of the issue is always going to be that some are faster painters/builders than others and thus burn through current models faster; whilst others are going to get few games and thus will feel like an edition is over too fast even though others have been gaming twice a week every week and are ready for some bigger changes

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:

I actually found the 'lightning round' updates of 8th edition much _worse_ than it used to be. From the indexes to Vigilis to the codexes to PA, a lot of 8th edition stuff just wasn't worth buying, because the use lifetime was ridiculously short.

If you want to argue for get-you-by rules pdfs with a new edition, I won't argue against that.
But I'll definitely argue against the 'disposable updates for cash' multiple times in an edition that was ridiculously short, even by modern GW standards. I'd rather have a 5 year or even 10 year turn around on codexes again. I wouldn't be happy with 10, but I'd prefer it to a pile of self-immolating crap that I didn't even bother to buy or use.

Actually, i'd argue for Codexes to be released all at once when the edition starts, with campaign books (vigilus, PA) being added mid-edition.

Their writing staff just isn't that big (and a huge writing staff wouldn't be beneficial). You're asking for the moon.

In terms of Codex Disparity and its affect on games?

I remember the Dark Eldar codex. The original one. That wasn’t updated for years.

Some folk like a challenge, but using that was like tactically removing your limbs before entering Ninja Warrior.

As said, someone is going to be last out the gate. That’s unavoidable of course. But I do agree weaker Codexes should be updated over those which are muddling along quite happily.

Which is which? Ask someone with wide experience. For I don’t have enough information to form an opinion.

I'm not playing until I get a codex, a codex I probs won't buy anyway because feth it.

It would be great if when a new edition came out that you would get say 5 or 6 codexes to drop on day 1. But that would pull a lot of staff away from other projects. Would anyone want to give up say Warcry, AT, or a future game of Battlefleet Gothic to get that. GW is producing a lot of product. I wouldn't want to miss any of that to get a book quicker. It would be better if the current edition could last (I know it's wishfull thinking) ten years. That way everything could be done in a quality way without the need of constant updates. We could then get a the great specialist games also.

It would be great if GW would only drop new products when I have the money to buy them, the time to model and paint them, and a group to game with too but you don't see me crying.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In terms of Codex Disparity and its affect on games?

I remember the Dark Eldar codex. The original one. That wasn’t updated for years.

Some folk like a challenge, but using that was like tactically removing your limbs before entering Ninja Warrior.

Thats... not actually true. I think it depended on the matchup, but I trotted mine out during 5th edition and absolutely tabled several armies.
It was horrible against some things, but it _really_ wore its 'glass CANNON' badge, especially against tyranids of the time. I remember one game against nids that was over by turn three, as there simply wasn't a bug left. I felt rather bad about it, but it wasn't an army people were used to seeing at the time, and it felt more like clubbing baby seals than going in with a handicap.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
I'm not playing until I get a codex, a codex I probs won't buy anyway because feth it.

If you're not going to buy the book, why should GW prioritise producing it?

 BlackoCatto wrote:
I'm not playing until I get a codex, a codex I probs won't buy anyway because feth it.

Well that's not exactly reason for GW to produce codex eh?