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 Kanluwen wrote:
By that same vein, I can make the argument that I have continually made:

That any expansion of the regiment concept needs to be accompanied by revamping the actual Guard army.

You want lightly armored or equipped infantry that form up gunlines? Hey guess what that kinda sounds like how Conscripts initially got billed way back when... and the Mordian, Praetorian, Steel Legion, and Valhallan art all really fit that bill. Lightly armored with maybe a vest or helmet.

You want more professional looking Infantry Squads? That's where your Cadians, Necromundan Spyders, or whatever vest+helmeted look comes into play. Give some optional bits for upper leg plates and it could double up as a Grenadier Veteran style of kit too.

Lightly armored scout infantry are a thing that Guard have been missing for ages, with it having been pawned off onto Ratlings. The introduction of the keyword system just goes to show that there could be a <Regiment> unit that would fit the bill just as well...and is a great spot for a Tanith or Catachan styled box.

Give each 'style' a corresponding unit entry(Light armor of just vest or helmet gets a 6, Infantry Squad gets the 5+ if no greaves/vambraces, and Scouts get a 6 with a bonus when in cover or a negative to hit at over a certain range/when in cover), each unit getting a unique weapon option or something in the box and it goes and actually lets people showcase the regiments they like better via playstyle as well as graphics.

Yeah, sounds rad. Make them all Troops so you can make an army of any of them, and boom, there you go. Exactly the kind of audience they tend to court currently with Guard, since Guard are the only army you still HAVE to kitbash to build with the way the kits are currently constructed.

It's not hard to make Guard Regiment options cheap, jeez just look at WGA releases.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, GW would do well to ignore Kan's hopes/desires as they pertain to a IG line refresh.

Nah. They'd do better to hire me on and keep Cruddace the hell away from the army ever again.

...you're actually serious, aren't you?

Assuming we keep the mechanical differences between the different Regiments - at least in terms of them being represented, even if said rules are tweaked a touch in 9th ed - then we should have the Regiments represented in kit form. One of the weirdest decisions I saw GW make in 8th was to remove the basic squad sets for several of the Regiments available only in metal not that long after the 8th ed Codex dropped.

From the GSC and Necro releases, we've seen that they've gotten much better at producing models with human(-ish, in some cases) proportions than when they made the Cadians and Catachans in plastic. We have veritable bucketloads of examples of them being more efficient in terms of using sprue space today than they were back then. And with the likes of the Necro gangs (and expansion boxes), Blood Bowl teams and Warcry warbands, we've seen that they're willing to make kits that are likely a lower sales volume than we'd see for a 40k force, and that even overlap the same design space (see the reuse of Warcry warbands into the Slaves to Darkness army list as chaff.)

If they can do that sort of thing in the volumes we've seen over the last few years, there's capacity to do multiple Regiments in plastic. I wouldn't want to speculate how many, and I don't know if they'd try to merge them into multiple Regiments in one set of kits, but I would hope we would see more than we have now in plastic, with a better spread of options in each kit. Starting with a Sergeant lasgun arm!

And, yes, I know the Mordian/Praetorian models were conversions (at the master level, anyway) initially - that's part of why they make sense as a dual-Regiment kit, while some of the other proposed options might detract from an established aesthetic.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, GW would do well to ignore Kan's hopes/desires as they pertain to a IG line refresh.

Nah. They'd do better to hire me on and keep Cruddace the hell away from the army ever again.

...you're actually serious, aren't you?

Assuming we keep the mechanical differences between the different Regiments - at least in terms of them being represented, even if said rules are tweaked a touch in 9th ed - then we should have the Regiments represented in kit form. One of the weirdest decisions I saw GW make in 8th was to remove the basic squad sets for several of the Regiments available only in metal not that long after the 8th ed Codex dropped.

From the GSC and Necro releases, we've seen that they've gotten much better at producing models with human(-ish, in some cases) proportions than when they made the Cadians and Catachans in plastic. We have veritable bucketloads of examples of them being more efficient in terms of using sprue space today than they were back then. And with the likes of the Necro gangs (and expansion boxes), Blood Bowl teams and Warcry warbands, we've seen that they're willing to make kits that are likely a lower sales volume than we'd see for a 40k force, and that even overlap the same design space (see the reuse of Warcry warbands into the Slaves to Darkness army list as chaff.)

If they can do that sort of thing in the volumes we've seen over the last few years, there's capacity to do multiple Regiments in plastic. I wouldn't want to speculate how many, and I don't know if they'd try to merge them into multiple Regiments in one set of kits, but I would hope we would see more than we have now in plastic, with a better spread of options in each kit. Starting with a Sergeant lasgun arm!

And, yes, I know the Mordian/Praetorian models were conversions (at the master level, anyway) initially - that's part of why they make sense as a dual-Regiment kit, while some of the other proposed options might detract from an established aesthetic.

I actually think you could get away with making steel legion from the same short coat mordian style kit.

If you went with long boots for all 3x a steel legion kit is different arms and a head.

The same with Valhalla's and DKoK, there's enough similarity in the kits to make some design choices to make them close together (no fur coat for Valhalla's) and you can make a dual part kit there. I'd basically make DKoK and then make the valhallan head and maybe arm the alternative to the set personally.

Cadians could also be Elysian again, with design liberties.

Catachan are your light infantry, and then would need an alternative torso, arms and heads in the kit to the catachans, then with additions such as capes etc to make light infantry in the being of the 1st and only.

It's totally doable, it just means people who are die hard fans of certain regiments would need to accept the small changes for the greater good.

Mordians and Praetorians are not at all light infantry btw. Mordian uniforms are a specialized armor.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Yeah, GW would do well to ignore Kan's hopes/desires as they pertain to a IG line refresh.

Nah. They'd do better to hire me on and keep Cruddace the hell away from the army ever again.

...you're actually serious, aren't you?

Deadly serious, yeah. The guy has zero concept of how the army functions. The projects he's been lead on for it gutted the army of options and made it into the "Lulz bring as allies" fodder they have become.

Also, those same projects are what led to the dumpsterfire retcons of Cadia's organizational setup to them suddenly having a PDF. Completely wrecked the Internal Guard(one of the most important fluff parts about Cadia in the first place!) in one line.

But again, it's important to note that my whole 'vision' is predicated upon making the rules and line fit the lore we currently have. It's also why I've argued that they should just have a "Guilliman disbands the Guard and Navy as individual forces, refounding the Imperial Army" and start fresh. It'll piss people off but oh well. Guard has too many fairweather fans as it stands.

Assuming we keep the mechanical differences between the different Regiments - at least in terms of them being represented, even if said rules are tweaked a touch in 9th ed - then we should have the Regiments represented in kit form. One of the weirdest decisions I saw GW make in 8th was to remove the basic squad sets for several of the Regiments available only in metal not that long after the 8th ed Codex dropped.

Zero mechanical differences beyond Regimental Rules. A Praetorian/Mordian or Valhallan has the same armor save as a Cadian or a Vostroyan.
Conscripts are not really different to Guardsmen or Veterans beyond unit size, options, and a few token stat changes(notably BS and LD).

From the GSC and Necro releases, we've seen that they've gotten much better at producing models with human(-ish, in some cases) proportions than when they made the Cadians and Catachans in plastic. We have veritable bucketloads of examples of them being more efficient in terms of using sprue space today than they were back then. And with the likes of the Necro gangs (and expansion boxes), Blood Bowl teams and Warcry warbands, we've seen that they're willing to make kits that are likely a lower sales volume than we'd see for a 40k force, and that even overlap the same design space (see the reuse of Warcry warbands into the Slaves to Darkness army list as chaff.)

If they can do that sort of thing in the volumes we've seen over the last few years, there's capacity to do multiple Regiments in plastic. I wouldn't want to speculate how many, and I don't know if they'd try to merge them into multiple Regiments in one set of kits, but I would hope we would see more than we have now in plastic, with a better spread of options in each kit. Starting with a Sergeant lasgun arm!

Once again:
What's the point? The WarCry warbands have a point between each of them. Each is a unique unit entry. Iron Golems aren't the same as Untamed Beasts who aren't the same as Corvus Cabal, etc, etc.

And, yes, I know the Mordian/Praetorian models were conversions (at the master level, anyway) initially - that's part of why they make sense as a dual-Regiment kit, while some of the other proposed options might detract from an established aesthetic.

The "established aesthetics" are great for doing one squad. If you want to argue that every Regiment should be a squad option? Cool, I'm down for that.

But what makes a Mordian Conscript different from a Mordian Guardsman or Veteran--aside from you converting/painting them differently?

This is the crux of my argument. There needs to be a drastic overhaul to the Guard army, period, before we start really talking about model changes or additional regiments. Otherwise we'll just keep limping along with a half-cocked book and no real design direction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Mordians and Praetorians are not at all light infantry btw. Mordian uniforms are a specialized armor.

Are they wearing helmets? Greaves? Pauldrons?

Then they're "lightly armored infantry"...which was the exact wording I used.

To you they are light infantry, not to the lore or how they are represented.

Jeez, definitely keep you away from Guard design unless you want boring.

I mean, from the box of basic sisters of battle GW expects you to build celestians and the others that aren't dominions. The difference of celestians is the helmet, and the others don't have a real difference with normal sisters of battle.

So I would not hope, as cool as it would be, for separated infantry, conscript and veteran imperial guard kits.

 Galas wrote:
I mean, from the box of basic sisters of battle GW expects you to build celestians and the others that aren't dominions. The difference of celestians is the helmet, and the others don't have a real difference with normal sisters of battle.

So I would not hope, as cool as it would be, for separated infantry, conscript and veteran imperial guard kits.

Likewise on the traditional marine front. You can build all your power armor dudes using Tactical marines, the only difference required is equipment.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
It's not hard to make Guard Regiment options cheap, jeez just look at WGA releases.

Very true, though GW would never make a kit as cheap as WGA. Best case scenario is a 20 man infantry box for 60 dollars like the undead construct army got last year - though even then the box price would be 65 dollars if released tomorrow.

In spite of that, I'd probably still buy several boxes if GW released a new guard infantry. Between actively painted, built but not painted, and still in box stuff I have Cadians, Steel Legion, Valhallans, Vostroyans, Kasrkin, 3rd edition Stormtroopers, and Scions sitting around, and wouldn't mind seeing any of them get a plastic revamp (well except Scions who are still a reasonably new kit). I just hope that the new stuff doesn't just replace the old kits so that multiple regiments could be available once more.

Daemons are not finished, the Herald of Slannesh is Finecast. The Furies are too if I'm not mistaken.

Tyranids: the Deathleaper is still Finecast.

The Newman wrote:
Daemons are not finished, the Herald of Slannesh is Finecast. The Furies are too if I'm not mistaken..

Furies got updated recently through Warcry into new plastic. They also share the sprue with chicken-raptors

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warcry-Chaotic-Beasts-2019