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As I said in another thread, I recently updated my hobby table with new lighting and storage for paints. This evening I was hanging out down at my local game store and out of the corner of my eye I spotted the new Jain Zar model. While I was looking at the box the owner of the store was telling me about a little painting event he is planning to try and help drum up business and use some of his GW rewards points as the prizes for the event. I was intrigued, so I ended up buying Jain Zar. It's a fabulous model. I really like the way they designed her leaping into the air, and while the model it quite detailed, it seems to have avoided the "overdesigned" trap that some other newer models have fallen into.

But. Why were Jain and the Banshees the first models from the very outdated line of Aspect Warriors to be given an update? And why haven't we as of yet seen any of the other models or phoenix lords?

It just seems so strange to me, clearly the others will be coming along at some point, but why these as the first wave and why on earth has the release time (2019-present) been so long with not even a hint of another eldar model update?

Why Zar & the Banshees? They have to start somewhere....

Besides, Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in.
I'd bet $ on that being the main reason this aspect was 1st.

As for why no more aspects since?
1) Well, have you seen a product since BotP where another aspect would be the logical fit?
2) It's not CWE time yet as far as the 9e Codex release schedule goes.

But. Why were Jain and the Banshees the first models from the very outdated line of Aspect Warriors to be given an update? And why haven't we as of yet seen any of the other models or phoenix lords?

It just seems so strange to me, clearly the others will be coming along at some point, but why these as the first wave and why on earth has the release time (2019-present) been so long with not even a hint of another eldar model update?

Valid questions.
But we can only speculate. Ask GW or better Phil Kelly.

Given Eldar slipped from their favourite child pedestal, I'm assuming Phil is working on AoS now

Heard the new High Elves are pretty crazy, coincidence?

ccs wrote:
Why Zar & the Banshees? Well they have to start somewhere....

Besides, Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in.
I'd bet $ on that being the main reason this aspect was 1st.

Makes less sense when the incubi are a dark mirror of the scorpions, being founded by the original striking scorpion exarch, Arha.

It would have made more sense for Karandras and the scorpions to show up against their hated rivals...

Because Jain Zar is part of the Ynnari metaplot that GW is intent on forcing down everybody's throats. She's probably the only phoenix lord you will hear anything about for the forseeable future. I actually would not be surprised if all the other phoenix lords get sent off to Legends and Jain Zar is the only one to get a datasheet in the 9th edition CWE codex.

 Hellebore wrote:

ccs wrote:
Why Zar & the Banshees? Well they have to start somewhere....

Besides, Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in.
I'd bet $ on that being the main reason this aspect was 1st.

Makes less sense when the incubi are a dark mirror of the scorpions, being founded by the original striking scorpion exarch, Arha.

It would have made more sense for Karandras and the scorpions to show up against their hated rivals...

Sure & Hawks would've paired nicely vs the winged DE better than a Falcon....
But you don't have to have an exact 1:1 mirroring to maintain theme

But refer back to my first sentence about starting somewhere.
Could also be that the Banshees were the unit ready at the time. Or just be more popular than Scorpions

 Duskweaver wrote:
Because Jain Zar is part of the Ynnari metaplot that GW is intent on forcing down everybody's throats.

Bingo!

I assumed that the model designers are given a certain degree of freedom, and the fluff and rules come later.

I imagine that the design team were told that Eldar were due an update and that it would be one Aspect warrior and the corresponding Phoenix Lord. From there, I expect the design team were given the choice of which Aspect to do.

So the reason it was Banshees and Jain Zar was most likely that whovever was designing the sculpts had a preference for them over the other Aspects.

 Duskweaver wrote:
Because Jain Zar is part of the Ynnari metaplot that GW is intent on forcing down everybody's throats. She's probably the only phoenix lord you will hear anything about for the forseeable future. I actually would not be surprised if all the other phoenix lords get sent off to Legends and Jain Zar is the only one to get a datasheet in the 9th edition CWE codex.

This is the #1 reason why I think that fluff should have Zero impact on model development.

 Eldarain wrote:
Given Eldar slipped from their favourite child pedestal, I'm assuming Phil is working on AoS now

Heard the new High Elves are pretty crazy, coincidence?

What you mean by crazy? Not tournament dominating in any case. They are decent strong mid level force


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

ccs wrote:
Why Zar & the Banshees? Well they have to start somewhere....

Besides, Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in.
I'd bet $ on that being the main reason this aspect was 1st.

Makes less sense when the incubi are a dark mirror of the scorpions, being founded by the original striking scorpion exarch, Arha.

It would have made more sense for Karandras and the scorpions to show up against their hated rivals...

Sure & Hawks would've paired nicely vs the winged DE better than a Falcon....
But you don't have to have an exact 1:1 mirroring to maintain theme

But refer back to my first sentence about starting somewhere.
Could also be that the Banshees were the unit ready at the time. Or just be more popular than Scorpions

So falcon and hawks　rather than banshees? You weren't expecting 2 new units for npc faction were you?

tneva82 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Given Eldar slipped from their favourite child pedestal, I'm assuming Phil is working on AoS now

Heard the new High Elves are pretty crazy, coincidence?

What you mean by crazy? Not tournament dominating in any case. They are decent strong mid level force


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

ccs wrote:
Why Zar & the Banshees? Well they have to start somewhere....

Besides, Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in.
I'd bet $ on that being the main reason this aspect was 1st.

Makes less sense when the incubi are a dark mirror of the scorpions, being founded by the original striking scorpion exarch, Arha.

It would have made more sense for Karandras and the scorpions to show up against their hated rivals...

Sure & Hawks would've paired nicely vs the winged DE better than a Falcon....
But you don't have to have an exact 1:1 mirroring to maintain theme

But refer back to my first sentence about starting somewhere.
Could also be that the Banshees were the unit ready at the time. Or just be more popular than Scorpions

So falcon and hawks　rather than banshees? You weren't expecting 2 new units for npc faction were you?

What does npc faction mean?

Both banshees and Jain Zar appearing in the DoW games might also have been a driver.

Banshees I think have allways been a popular aspect warrior unit, they may have choose them for that reason only. But only GW will know the whole reason :(

I think it's probably in line with what's already been suggested - the Banshees have always been one of the most prominent aspect warrior units anyway, and it fitted in with the Ynnari storyline.

Although I think the banshees were a sensible choice from a prominence/popularity perspective, I think they were some way down the list for 'needing' new models. Their 4th Ed sculpts were fine, the main problem was that they were finecast. Ones I'd have put ahead would be the Swooping Hawks (3rd Ed models, quite flimsy connection to the base even in metal so I can only imagine the finecast is even worse), Shining Spears (it just seems absurd that they're stuck with the old jetbike models when the new windrider jetbikes were released 6 years ago - come on, they just need an upgrade sprue with some laser lances, heads and exarch options!) and Warp Spiders (I still like the models, but they're quite clearly 2nd Ed vintage and they look it next to newer stuff).

What I'm curious about is whether they've got more aspect warriors 3d modelled but just not released yet, or whether they really did just do the banshees. It would make sense if their designer(s) got on a roll for a particular faction and designed more than one unit at a time, and we know they've often designed things well in advance of releasing them. The windriders are a good example, I recall the design had been shown off at Gamesday in 2007 and it was 8 years before they actually released them, for whatever reason. They could easily be sitting on a bunch of CAD designs for other aspects and just picked the banshees out of the list to release. The dead guardian on the new Lelith's base is a hint in that direction - would they CAD model new guardian armour just for a base ornament, or did they have the files for the unit anyway and just grabbed them from the library?

 Togusa wrote:




What does npc faction mean?

From how it was explained to me on 4chan, an NPC army is one that isn't the lore or setting driving faction. Meaning all the wierd armies like tau, orks, eldar etc As a contrast to main factions like marines, custodes or latelly sisters of battle.

 Togusa wrote:


What does npc faction mean?

Not being rude, but you have spent how long exactly in a nerd oriented hobby and forum and don't know what an NPC is?

NPC stands for "Non player character", someone for your group/warband/army etc. to interact with in an RPG.

Models are designed first, rules come later. So it's because the model team decided to make them and not the others. Until they decide to make other aspects too you won't see them.

Well that maybe true, but as others pointed out GW has back log of models that lay on the shelf for years. They may as well have other aspects, they just have a different time table for all their armies, and if the resin recasts of metal sell well enough, they don't really have a big entice to update everything as soon as possible.

I'm hoping (but I have zero evidence) that GW are planning a huge necron style release for craftworlds when they get their 9th edition codex.

It takes a long time for new models to be developed and released, especially on a scale of trying to shift all the eldar finecast kits into plastic. I'm guessing when blood of the phoenix came out they wanted some models to tie in with the release and hype it up and Jain Zar and the banshees were what was ready. The rest are being held back until everything is ready and they can release them close together, maybe with a special boxed set, amidst a month long hype fest in anticipation for the codex. That will likely encourage people to start new armies and ensure the new models sell.

Wayniac wrote:
Models are designed first, rules come later. So it's because the model team decided to make them and not the others. Until they decide to make other aspects too you won't see them.

GW has piles of models sculpted already that they don't have into molds or a release window for, because they're going to find an excuse to release them alongside something.

GW dropped the ball with Blood of the Phoenix and individual boxed set price tag. From what I have understood, neither Banshees or Incubi have exactly flown off the shelves which may cause a delay on upcoming units. In addition to high price tag, Banshees are hurt by the fact that other models have not been updated - starting an army where several models are old or different scale is not very tempting.

I hope Eldar get a huge range revamp that is not ruined by Banshee-level pricing. They deserve it.

I ended up tracking down Blood of the Phoenix because I couldn't stand the price of just the new units. In Canadian dollars, it works out to getting everything else in the box for $50 + tax.

ccs wrote:
...Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in...

Surely Karandras (the second SS Phoenix Lord) and the Striking Scorpions would have made a better mirror theme to Arhra (the first SS Phoenix Lord) and the Incubi (who Arhra went off to found after trying to assassinate Asurmen and getting thrown out of the Craftworld Aspect club).

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...Zar & the Banshees make a nice mirror theme to the Dark Eldar close combat foot troops/character in the Blood of the Phoenix box set they were launched in...

Surely Karandras (the second SS Phoenix Lord) and the Striking Scorpions would have made a better mirror theme to Arhra (the first SS Phoenix Lord) and the Incubi (who Arhra went off to found after trying to assassinate Asurmen and getting thrown out of the Craftworld Aspect club).

Surely.

But outside Eldar fans? That doesn't mean diddly sh.
What alot of people at the shop (who don't play Eldar/DE let alone know their lore) NOTICED is that it seemed GW had a nice mirror theme going - good guy melee boss/bad guy melee boss, iconic good guy melee unit/iconic(?) bad guy melee unit, good guy light hover vehicle/bad guy light hover vehicle....
After that the theme broke down a bit & some people who know CWE have winged guys wondered why no Hawks opposite the winged DE unit.

I will default back to my opening opinion. Had to start somewhere & Banshees were ready at the time (probably because they're popular).

Redoing the Aspect Warriors in plastic started a few years ago with Dire Avengers (but no Asurmen) but they sold so badly it was put on-hold.

As jullevi said earlier, neither the Banshees (nor Incubi) sold well again so I'd be surprised if we see anymore for a few years - unless they introduce another new Aspect.

The banshees might have sold better if they weren’t originally loaded into a crappy bundle box, or were priced a little better.

I bought a box, as I want to see more plastic aspects, but I cringed while doing so.

Nice minis, but crazy expensive for something that underperforms on the table and doesn’t cost a lot of points.

I really wanted to pick up the boxed set and was excited to add to my ynarri....right up until I saw the price.

I guess I'm gonna wait even longer and if the next aspects come about @ primaris prices for 5, I'm just gonna forget it.

Because SpAcE MaHrInEs!1!11!!!1

I wonder if they were a bit of a token job, in that, along with the sisters, they represent one of the few non male characteristic units in the setting.
Let's be honest, 40K is a bit of an XY dominated model line and maybe it was a chance to do something different?
Whatever the reason, I for one am very happy that they did it, the new sculpts are very good and I hope is a precursor to a full refresh of all the aspects and their phoenix lords.