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I saw this the other day on reddit I think? Can't remember the name of the person that shared it but possibly they were the creator?

I feel bad for Eldar, they were my first 40k army and I love them dearly. I would like to get an Eldar army again but I will be damned if I spend more money on them when they are the same models I originally bought back in 2006 or whenever it bloody well was.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
The Speeders and Gladiators are single kits with options to build 3 (or, if you include the Impulsor, 4 for the Gladiator) variants from one kit. Completely different kettle of fish to the Ork Buggies. Speeder and Gladiator should be one model release each.

I think they count as 3 here and I'm not sure if they should or not. Honestly this is all too disparate to make any real judgements.

As they say in "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" - the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

We definitely need the source data to be able to make heads or tails of it, that's for sure.

My position would be that distinct kits are distinct releases, but multi-kits only count as one release, not the number of datasheets they cover.

Gladiator? Storm Speeder? One release each.

Orktober buggy wave? 5 buggies, plus the Wartrike.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
lol, so it looks like people should be mad at Chaos ( and Sisters ) for chewing up Xenos slots instead of marines.

No one gets to be mad at sisters releases for at least another decade.

I really hope that image will reach GW. They could stop the marine release nonsense for a bit (let's get real, it'll return anyway) and take care of those old as feck models

GW should have a graph like that already and a graph for future releases. They already know what's coming.

Thing is they also have a graph that shows exactly what models are selling and what aren't and in what regions of the world and all that.

ERJAK wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
lol, so it looks like people should be mad at Chaos ( and Sisters ) for chewing up Xenos slots instead of marines.

No one gets to be mad at sisters releases for at least another decade.

And there were more xenos releases (at least if the boxes are accurate) in 2020 than sisters in 2020 and the 15 years leading up to it combined.

Whats not shown here is the huge marine/chaos skew that hit forgeworld over the past decade.

Does model release refer to individual models or the act of releasing a batch? i.e. could one block include 10 different models?

1990s GSC models are not included.

1990s CSM models appear to be very low.

Not clear on the distinction between CSM and CSM Chapters, but there were chapter-specific CSM models coming out in the early days. CSM Chapter category first appears in the chart in 2000, which would have been after things like metal Berzerkers.

This is pretty, not sure it's accurate.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Does model release refer to individual models or the act of releasing a batch? i.e. could one block include 10 different models?

1990s GSC models are not included.

1990s CSM models appear to be very low.

Not clear on the distinction between CSM and CSM Chapters, but there were chapter-specific CSM models coming out in the early days. CSM Chapter category first appears in the chart in 2000, which would have been after things like metal Berzerkers.

This is pretty, not sure it's accurate.

Similarly, the only Harlis listed are the new ones. I’ve got a pile of old lead that says otherwise.

Still, very fascinating chart.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Does model release refer to individual models or the act of releasing a batch? i.e. could one block include 10 different models

It appears to be a mix. One block could mean 1 model or a whole box.

The 2004 marine veterans set (5 unique models) appears to have only a single box on the chart, The 2004 repentia and mistress (also 5 unique models) appear to have 5 boxes on the chart.
Multi-model plastic kits are similarly only one box, with the exception of group boxes like the Triumvirate which appears to have three chart entries.

 Vector Strike wrote:
I really hope that image will reach GW. They could stop the marine release nonsense for a bit (let's get real, it'll return anyway) and take care of those old as feck models

I'm pretty sure GW already has all the data on this, and even if they didn't, the lead time on miniature release is at least a few years and not a "we'll design and release it by May" process.

A.T. wrote:
And there were more xenos releases (at least if the boxes are accurate) in 2020 than sisters in 2020 and the 15 years leading up to it combined.

Xenos is not a faction. As a Drukhari player it is as much use to me that GSC and Necrons get releases as it is when Space Marines get them.

 harlokin wrote:

A.T. wrote:
And there were more xenos releases (at least if the boxes are accurate) in 2020 than sisters in 2020 and the 15 years leading up to it combined.

Xenos is not a faction. As a Drukhari player it is as much use to me that GSC and Necrons get releases as it is when Space Marines get them.

My reply is to be taken in the context of the original question.

Also it is quite a release for the crons isn't it - overlord, royal warden, plasmancer, cryptothrals, skorpekh lord, skorpekh destroyers, plasmacyte, reanimator, new scarabs, new warriors, lokhust destroyer, doomstalker, the silent king, the void dragon, new monolith, the convergence of dominion, hexmark destroyer, ophydian destroyers, psychomancer, chronomancer, new flayed ones, new lord, szeras, the pariah network, and i'm probably missing one or two.

A.T. wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

A.T. wrote:
And there were more xenos releases (at least if the boxes are accurate) in 2020 than sisters in 2020 and the 15 years leading up to it combined.

Xenos is not a faction. As a Drukhari player it is as much use to me that GSC and Necrons get releases as it is when Space Marines get them.

My reply is to be taken in the context of the original question.

Also it is quite a release for the crons isn't it - overlord, royal warden, plasmancer, cryptothrals, skorpekh lord, skorpekh destroyers, plasmacyte, reanimator, new scarabs, new warriors, lokhust destroyer, doomstalker, the silent king, the void dragon, new monolith, the convergence of dominion, hexmark destroyer, ophydian destroyers, psychomancer, chronomancer, new flayed ones, new lord, szeras, the pariah network, and i'm probably missing one or two.

It's quite possible that I misunderstood the context of your reponse, if so I apologise.

Yes it's a great Necron release, but while it's nice seeing GW do something other than power armour, it is still of no more relevance to me than more Space Marines.

 harlokin wrote:
Yes it's a great Necron release, but while it's nice seeing GW do something other than power armour, it is still of no more relevance to me than more Space Marines.

Think of it like a queue where the marine releases keep pushing to the front of the line.

So every marine release puts you one spot back in the queue, while every xenos/imperial release moves you one step forwards.

 Nevelon wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Does model release refer to individual models or the act of releasing a batch? i.e. could one block include 10 different models?

1990s GSC models are not included.

1990s CSM models appear to be very low.

Not clear on the distinction between CSM and CSM Chapters, but there were chapter-specific CSM models coming out in the early days. CSM Chapter category first appears in the chart in 2000, which would have been after things like metal Berzerkers.

This is pretty, not sure it's accurate.

Similarly, the only Harlis listed are the new ones. I’ve got a pile of old lead that says otherwise.

Still, very fascinating chart.

I would suspect the metal Harlis are listed as an Eldar release since that is what the were in the 90s, no?

 alextroy wrote:
I would suspect the metal Harlis are listed as an Eldar release since that is what the were in the 90s, no?

Yup, Harlequins were all of 4 units in 2nd ed (Great Harlequin, Harlequin Troupe, Death Jester and Solitaire). They didn't even show up in the 3rd edition Eldar codex (I can't remember if they showed in a splatbook), then a single unit in 4th ed (though in fairness it had the Shadowseer, Death Jester and Troupe Master rolled into the unit and the Solitaire remaining a fluffblurb). It's the same issue with Grey Knights, taking a handful of units and trying to make them a whole armies.

That reminds me. Harliquins started as Eldar models. Then they were added to the Dark Eldar Codex when they update the 3rd Edition Codex. Finally, there were split out into a separate army when they released all the plastic kits. They have had a ride over the years.

GW really need to get that big Craftworlds Eldar model line redo going.
Its sad and ridiculous how old most if their models are.

 alextroy wrote:
That reminds me. Harliquins started as Eldar models. Then they were added to the Dark Eldar Codex when they update the 3rd Edition Codex. Finally, there were split out into a separate army when they released all the plastic kits. They have had a ride over the years.

I don't think they were in the 3rd ed Dark Eldar codex (even the 2nd printing one).

Sweet Baocncatbug.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I would suspect the metal Harlis are listed as an Eldar release since that is what the were in the 90s, no?

Yup, Harlequins were all of 4 units in 2nd ed (Great Harlequin, Harlequin Troupe, Death Jester and Solitaire). They didn't even show up in the 3rd edition Eldar codex (I can't remember if they showed in a splatbook), then a single unit in 4th ed (though in fairness it had the Shadowseer, Death Jester and Troupe Master rolled into the unit and the Solitaire remaining a fluffblurb). It's the same issue with Grey Knights, taking a handful of units and trying to make them a whole armies.

Harlis had their own army list in the RT compendium, and a special call out for army construction when included in the 2nd ed Eldar codex for legacy armies. I could see someone compiling a list to just wrap them into the rest of the Eldar range, but if they are going to flag the new releases separate, I would have assumed they would have also marked the old RT ones as well.

Its so sad when you try to look for various colours on the 1st chart and all you see is a sea of blue :(

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
That reminds me. Harliquins started as Eldar models. Then they were added to the Dark Eldar Codex when they update the 3rd Edition Codex. Finally, there were split out into a separate army when they released all the plastic kits. They have had a ride over the years.

I don't think they were in the 3rd ed Dark Eldar codex (even the 2nd printing one).

I meant when they updated from the 3rd Edition Codex with the new range. Was that 6th Edition?

5th, I think.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Slightly off topic, but I do wonder how much the income of 40k (and thus space marines) supplements the other games in terms of R&D etc. I know AoS is fairly popular, but with the amount of kits, and extravagant expensive to design and produce kits at that, I can't really believe they are making much of a profit on it, unless the development funds are siphoned over from other games.

Latest (unofficial) figure I've read in an equity report from an equity research firm was something along the lines of 40K 65%, AoS 25%, Forge World less than 5%, LotR less than 2% (of total revenues from miniatures).

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
I really hope that image will reach GW. They could stop the marine release nonsense for a bit (let's get real, it'll return anyway) and take care of those old as feck models

I'm pretty sure GW already has all the data on this, and even if they didn't, the lead time on miniature release is at least a few years and not a "we'll design and release it by May" process.

Yeah, I know... If they ever did that, it would show up for us at earliest by 2023-4.

Looking at this (and not going into the details because honestly, those small differences don't have much of an impact), the proportion of releases taken up by Space Marines has remained surprisingly constant over the years (only having had a bit of a dip a couple of years ago). The real increases are in Imperium (which basically used to be Imperial Guard and a few other things compared to all the new factions they got now) and Chaos (which saw several new armies split off from it, some being what used to be a single unit being broadened into an army (Thousand Sons, Death Guard), and some entirely new (Chaos Knights). So funnily enough, Codes Space Marines can't be blamed here (even if I personally would count Chaos Marines as Space Marines because in many ways they're the same thing). So really, what should be blamed for the lack of Xenos releases is the increase in non-space marine factions and the accompanying releases.

 Dolnikan wrote:
Looking at this (and not going into the details because honestly, those small differences don't have much of an impact), the proportion of releases taken up by Space Marines has remained surprisingly constant over the years (only having had a bit of a dip a couple of years ago). The real increases are in Imperium (which basically used to be Imperial Guard and a few other things compared to all the new factions they got now) and Chaos (which saw several new armies split off from it, some being what used to be a single unit being broadened into an army (Thousand Sons, Death Guard), and some entirely new (Chaos Knights). So funnily enough, Codes Space Marines can't be blamed here (even if I personally would count Chaos Marines as Space Marines because in many ways they're the same thing). So really, what should be blamed for the lack of Xenos releases is the increase in non-space marine factions and the accompanying releases.

If marine releases remain constant while new factions eat away from all other releases, you can definitely blame marines.

This just confirms my theory about how the 40K universe is supposed to work.
1st class space citizens: Space Marines! You are the protagonist faction. Your basic infantry shall be better than all other factions as we have discussed at length in other threads and the fiction shall be tailored to you!
2nd class space citizens: Other Imperials! You will be the plucky sidekicks to the Space Marines, there to look suitably awed when they kick ass and be rescued by them when you can't hold the line. You also get speaking roles in the fiction and get to show us how impressed you are by Space Marines.
3rd class space citizens: Bad Space Marines! Because you are bad you are third class, but don't worry you are still space marines so you will still get special snowflake subfaction releases like you are interesting enough to deserve it, and you're still going to get to be point of view characters in some of the novels sometimes! Your job is to emerge as The True Threat and cackle madly before getting beaten up by the Space Marines and retreating yelling "I'll get you next time, He-Man!"
Non-Human Space Scum: Xenos factions, this is you. You are NPCs whose point in the game is to give the Marines something interesting to beat up/save the Imperials from while waiting for Chaos to show up as The True Threat. So you get some visually interesting models but never forget that you are NOT REALLY THE POINT and are not allowed to be a real threat because Chaos is The True Threat. Also, you will not be getting any speaking roles in the fiction, your job on the tabletop and the fiction is to be gunned down in droves by our protagonist faction.

All the dickering over whether the data is 100% accurate is hilarious. This is a discussion forum not a scientific paper and we're damn sure that Space Marines are the protagonist faction so...why even bother haggling over to what extent that is true?

Aside from concerns about accuracy, this chart clearly demonstrates 1997 was the year GW learned they make money from releasing Space Marine miniatures, and to emphasize releasing Space Marine miniatures above all else.

I've seen people try to do average age of models calculations before. These numbers can be read 2 ways. Either GW doesn't give enough attention to these factions, or older factions have sculpts that are enduring and satisfying.