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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:16:36
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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Ordana wrote:That is what happens when you completely neglect updating an army while making multiple new generations of space marine kits.
And there are multiple armies in this state at this point, tho not as bad as Eldar.
Gets worse as the faction gets larger. Eldar are what, 4-5 times the size of secondary faction releases like the sisters and genestealer cults? And that's before GW add new models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:27:56
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Cronch wrote:A.T. wrote:
So 30-ish releases of which around two-thirds are big multipart kits.
Perfect chance to consolidate it into kits that make multiple unit types. And maybe cut some, as heretical as it sounds. If swooping hawks are gone, maybe warp spiders can be now slightly better. If Spiders are gone, maybe the swooping hawks can be buffed to not be useless. Shining spears god bless them never really seemed to fit that well. Combine warlocks, farseers and spiritseers and bonesingers into one box with 5 models giving you option for 5 warlocks or 5 different chars.
If the goal was simply to get the whole range in plastic and not modernise everything right now in order to have a manageable release (outside of the really old plastics) :
Shining spears could be dealt with a single sprue, we don't need new jetbikes.
Kinda the same with guardians and dire avengers, a base kit + a sprue dedicated to make a variant (kinda meh but eh...)
Same for tanks : base falcon + specific sprues for variants.
And that character box is never going to happen, unless you're ready to spend 100+ € (plastic spiritseer and farseer cost 20+). But we actually really need just a warlock box.
The only units that would require their own tools are rangers and aspects. But they would probably end up on smaller sprues (or rather a single one per) so it's not impossible.
Ah and vypers but they could, maybe, even rebox the venom with an upgrade.
In the end it would be a lot of boxes, yes, but not that many sprues I think.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/03/10 21:36:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:45:23
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Caradman Sturnn wrote:Come to think of It, GW really missed their chance to make the 9th edition a full reboot for the hobby, rather I'd mostly ended up being a slick marketing campaign and a boatload of Marine releases that only obfuscates what said factions stands for or has to offer to a new player.
2 full reboot in a row would be too much even for GW
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Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:47:30
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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dhallnet wrote:In the end it would be a lot of boxes, yes, but not that many sprues I think.
Banshees are three sprues. Using them as a guide -
Three for aspects, guardians and hawks would probably need four - so twenty sprues of infantry total.
Support weapons, one or two sprues including crew.
Two sprues for shining spears, one sprue a piece for yriel and each of the phoenix lords for another six.
Probably two double sprues for the falcon hull and two more for turrets for four double sprues total.
A double sprue each for the wraithlord, warwalker, viper
And then an indeterminate number for remaining character models and wargear options.
So a fair number with the way GW are making them at the moment. It's all fixed poses with matching arms/legs/torsos, not interchangeable bits like the old kits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:52:55
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A.T. wrote:dhallnet wrote:In the end it would be a lot of boxes, yes, but not that many sprues I think.
Banshees are three sprues. Using them as a guide -
Three for aspects, guardians and hawks would probably need four - so twenty sprues of infantry total.
Support weapons, one or two sprues including crew.
Two sprues for shining spears, one sprue a piece for yriel and each of the phoenix lords for another six.
Probably two double sprues for the falcon hull and two more for turrets for four double sprues total.
A double sprue each for the wraithlord, warwalker, viper
And then an indeterminate number for remaining character models and wargear options.
So a fair number with the way GW are making them at the moment. It's all fixed poses with matching arms/legs/torsos, not interchangeable bits like the old kits.
Oof I thought banshees were 2 smaller sprues.
And forgot about phoenix lords, named characters and the avatar ^^
A box of jetbikes is 3 bikes, so I don't think they would need two sprues for shining spears unless the windriders sprues aren't re usable ? (bought mine built second hand so I don't know - Edit : just checked, looks like only the riders would be required). Same for hawks I don't think that much would be required, but it's bordering nit picking, there definitely are more stuff than I had in mind.
Support weapon, war walkers and wraith units can be left alone for a bit longer though. Not even sure they all need to be touched up at all.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/03/10 22:09:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 21:57:43
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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One of the major issues with updating kits that are 'old' is... simply that many people already have that kit to make their army function, despite its age. Either they got it long ago and have held onto it since then, or got it more recently to complete their force.
It's harder to sell those people on an updated kit that they already own. That's 99% of the reason Primaris became a thing. Instead of selling people updated Space Marine kits that they already have, create a whole slew of new space marines.
The issue is that now we have too many space marines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 22:02:03
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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drbored wrote:One of the major issues with updating kits that are 'old' is... simply that many people already have that kit to make their army function, despite its age. Either they got it long ago and have held onto it since then, or got it more recently to complete their force.
It's harder to sell those people on an updated kit that they already own.
Tell this to DE/SOB/Necron, they seem not aware ^^ (and updating a range brings new players)
That's 99% of the reason Primaris became a thing. Instead of selling people updated Space Marine kits that they already have, create a whole slew of new space marines.
The issue is that now we have too many space marines.
Primaris are a thing because there was nothing to update in marines, they were mostly current kits.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/10 22:06:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 22:17:55
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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dhallnet wrote:A box of jetbikes is 3 bikes, so I don't think they would need two sprues for shining spears unless the windriders sprues aren't re usable ? (bought mine built second hand so I don't know - Edit : just checked, looks like only the riders would be required). Same for infantry I don't think that much would be required, but it's bordering nit picking, there definitely are more stuff than I had in mind.
Support weapon, war walkers and wraith units can be left alone for a bit longer though. Not even sure they all need to be touched up at all.
Jetbikes - the two sprues were one for the regular bikers (multiples per box), and one for the exarch. A bike and rider on each sprue. I don't see GW making them an upgrade pack for an older model unless they redo the other bikes at the same time as well.
Guardians were based on needing the same three sprues as banshees (and comparable units - i.e. admech) - and that's three sprues including all options for different types of guardians. The fourth sprue was for the heavy weapon platform. Change the guardians and you need to change the support weapons to match but it's only one more sprue.
It's just the nature of the faction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 22:24:42
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A.T. wrote:Jetbikes - the two sprues were one for the regular bikers (multiples per box), and one for the exarch. A bike and rider on each sprue. I don't see GW making them an upgrade pack for an older model unless they redo the other bikes at the same time as well.
What I meant was that a shining spear box could be a windrider box + a sprue for the new riders. It's 4 lances and 4 small elves after all. But maybe it would require more.
A.T. wrote:
Guardians were based on needing the same three sprues as banshees (and comparable units - i.e. admech) - and that's three sprues including all options for different types of guardians. The fourth sprue was for the heavy weapon platform. Change the guardians and you need to change the support weapons to match but it's only one more sprue.
It's just the nature of the faction.
Forgot the platform was bundled with the guardians nowadays xD
And yeah, there is a lot of stuff even if we keep to the minimum.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 22:36:36
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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One of the major issues with updating kits that are 'old' is... simply that many people already have that kit to make their army function, despite its age. Either they got it long ago and have held onto it since then, or got it more recently to complete their force.
It's harder to sell those people on an updated kit that they already own. That's 99% of the reason Primaris became a thing. Instead of selling people updated Space Marine kits that they already have, create a whole slew of new space marines.
It's a bit different from Space Marines as a lot of Space Marines were already in plastic that had been upgraded a few times already so upgrading those would be less of a jump for most players whereas going from ancient resin/metal to plastic is a huge leap. It's why sisters are selling quite well as they were a fully metal/resin line except for the rhino chassis. When the updated Windriders came out they sold very well and many were converting them to Shining Spears as the models just looked better than the old ones.
Not to mention that the updated models look fantastic. I bought plastic Drazhar and Jain-zar because they were fantastic models despite me owning the old ones. Hell, I bought ton of the new windriders despite owning a decent collection of the older ones I think people are underestimating how old the current CW units look on the table and how they are very much likely keeping people from starting a CW army and how much older players want a visual update.
A more likely reason is that GW slept on their guard and now Third Party has swooped in on the market and GW is in a bind on how to address that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/10 22:38:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 22:44:40
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
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New wind riders are awesome. And like those, I would have added restartes in with my collection of OG marines if they would have been released as simply updated OG marines. GW stepped on their own toes going the way they did, because I will never own a restartes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 23:02:21
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There are a few space marine kits that we were expecting to be updated. Scouts, a large number of characters, the Techmarine, servitors, thunderfire cannon, not to mention the Rhino that GW seems determined to milk till it's long dead. They even reused the same rhino chassis for the sisters of battle and wow does it show its age.
But we got primaris, and that's all fine and dandy, but then we got more primaris, and mroe primaris, and moar primaris... and now I'm considering selling my primaris.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 23:19:36
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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drbored wrote:There are a few space marine kits that we were expecting to be updated. Scouts, a large number of characters, the Techmarine, servitors, thunderfire cannon, not to mention the Rhino that GW seems determined to milk till it's long dead. They even reused the same rhino chassis for the sisters of battle and wow does it show its age.
But we got primaris, and that's all fine and dandy, but then we got more primaris, and mroe primaris, and moar primaris... and now I'm considering selling my primaris.
I'd add to that the Terminators. I kinda hate those kits. The new Chaos ones look great, imo.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 23:47:04
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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jeff white wrote:New wind riders are awesome. And like those, I would have added restartes in with my collection of OG marines if they would have been released as simply updated OG marines. GW stepped on their own toes going the way they did, because I will never own a restartes.
So, you'd thrown away money straight into garbage bin to replace an unit you already have with almost identical, slightly refreshed copy of it...
But getting new, much better looking unit that keeps faction aesthetic and fills new role/gives you new tactical options is somehow bad?
What a genius idea. Why that quote about a kid frostbiting nose off to spite mom comes to mind?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 23:54:35
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Irbis wrote: jeff white wrote:New wind riders are awesome. And like those, I would have added restartes in with my collection of OG marines if they would have been released as simply updated OG marines. GW stepped on their own toes going the way they did, because I will never own a restartes.
So, you'd thrown away money straight into garbage bin to replace an unit you already have with almost identical, slightly refreshed copy of it...
But getting new, much better looking unit that keeps faction aesthetic and fills new role/gives you new tactical options is somehow bad? 
A: Your adjectives, not his.
B: Yes. . . because their lore is dumb and their units are dumb.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/10 23:56:56
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Drop Trooper with Demo Charge
Canada
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Irbis wrote: jeff white wrote:New wind riders are awesome. And like those, I would have added restartes in with my collection of OG marines if they would have been released as simply updated OG marines. GW stepped on their own toes going the way they did, because I will never own a restartes.
So, you'd thrown away money straight into garbage bin to replace an unit you already have with almost identical, slightly refreshed copy of it...
Can't speak for Jeff White, but I don't think buying more of a unit is "throwing money straight into the garbage bin" it's just "building the rest of 3rd company."
Unless you've already bought a full chapter worth of marines, or 5000 guardsmen, there's always room to grow.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/10 23:58:35
Imperial Guard - 1500 GSC - 250 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 00:10:27
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I'm using the GW store as a benchmark for current kits
53 entries on GW site
-6 books/ebooks/cards (47)
-2 Start Collecting or Army deals (45)
-2 Upgrade frames (43)
-5 dual kit entries (eg, Crimson Hunter & Hemlock) (38)
+1 missing kit (Wave Serpent...) (39)
Of those, the following can be left untouched:
- Jain Zar
- Howling Banshees
- Spiritseer
- Farseer
- Wraithguard/blades
- Wraithlord
- Wraithknight
- Windriders
- Crimson Hunter / Hemlock Wraithfighter
- Farseer/Warlock Skyrunner
- War Walker
- Plastic Eldrad
- Webway Gate
That's 13 out of 39 that are fine, or 1/3 of the field, by my reckoning.
Falcon/Wave Serpent/Fire Prism/Night Spinner are an interesting set of 3 kits. The base Falcon probably needs a recut, with updated crew and the hull shuriken cannon added, as I don't think it is there are the moment. The actual Fire Prism/Night Spinner upgrade sprue looks fine, though I've not tried to put one together.
I'd argue the Vyper is in the same boat - give it a recut for the same base design, but with updated crew & making sure the weapons are all included on the sprue.
I'm not convinced a new DA kit is needed - I'd rather just see them go back to a 10 Elf box. Again, I haven't built/painted any of these, but they look solid.
What're we looking at for the remaining 21 items?
- Autarch w/wings
- Autarch on jetbike
- 5 Phoenix Lords
- 2 other special characters (Yriel & Illic)
- Individual Warlock, plus Warlock/Farseer group.
- Rangers
- Reapers, Hawks, Scorpions, Dragons, Spiders
- Shining Spears
- Guardians (ideally to fold in Storm Guardians with more efficient sprues)
- Support Weapon (if the base Guardian design changes significantly - looks OK otherwise)
- Avatar of Khaine
The Avatar needs to be a GD-scale kit, not really going to argue there.
There's 7 special characters as clampacks (with a potential +1 for a Shining Spear Phoenix Lord), along wih 2 or 3 Autarch options. I'd rather see a box for Warlocks on Foot than clampacks - maybe four or five, with spear & witch blade options?
Shining Spears just need an upgrade sprue for the current jetbikes, upgrading or replacing the riders. They are, frankly, the biggest own goal in the CWE line at present, in terms of missed opportunities, as they should've been done when the new jetbikes were.
There are then seven squads to address as boxes - Guardians at the very least need to lose the random split legs and gain Storm Guardian arms in the box, which might not lead to extra sprues, depending on how they get cut.
You might be able to dual-box some of the Aspects, but I'd prefer a box for each to ensure suitable detail on the kit.
And all that's before you look at new stuff...
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 00:34:43
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm a bit surprised at how many people want a new larger scale avatar, isn't that what the forgeworld one is? Just get that, it's not dissimilarly priced from an equivalent plastic one would cost. I have the one with spear and can tell you it's absolutely perfect!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/11 00:35:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 02:39:21
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The look of Primais for me is good, I still like the Firstborn units as well though. Their lore, I think sucks a lot and their units feel boring in their set ups. What I loved of units in the game was having war gear options not " Everyone has to have this, or that. " These are personal gripes but I think people underestimate how many would have made new armies of upscaled Marines anyways.
All they did with the different take on it is make people feel they are squatting their armies forcefully and replacing them with dull counter parts that while they may look better to some lack a lot of style and spirit to others. So yeah I have to agree with others they handled it bad imo.
I'd never re buy my whole army again. That is a step too far for me and one of the things I always felt I wouldn't have to do playing warhammer, so them trying to do that to me, if they changed their plans or not has broken a covenant with me personally. Made me question them more and not trust them as perhaps I once did. Which makes me even less likely to buy heavy into primaris as what will happen when everyone has those ? Will they squat them for the new hot ? It's just not a cycle I'd be eager to be a part of.
Where as, simply upgrading the models I'm totally fine with, do it as you can and still use your old, vintage stuff but make it our choice. That shows respect to the customer and makes me value them more for respecting me. As opposed to perhaps feeding me lines to try and screw me later. Lies I can't abide, even if it is a soulless company.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 03:14:56
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Call me silly but... maybe the secret to milking xenos players would be to make a single vehicle that costs 1.25-2 times the cost in money what a vehicle goes for, but design it to be easily magnetizeable and a single kit to build multiple variants of a vehicle? Imagine taking the concept of a rhino/predator/vindicator, put all 3 in the same box on a single chassis you can magnetize easily to produce all variants, you make more profit over margin, the xenos player gets 3 releases they get to play with that they pay generally less for, and it gets updated... and don’t get me wrong I bet there’s a pile of xenos money begging to be tapped into. GW definitely seems to only give limited releases outside of a once every couple-several years reboot for whoever’s face space marines are punching in the lore? Or would this just piss you off as a xenos because although you have multiple toys to play with in a new release you are paying a huuuuuge premium just to swap transport capacity for a few cannons on the same boring chassis in terms of gameplay? Or am I really silly because they already do this? And I mean for example your 60$ tank now costs 100 but you easily can magnetize a few turrets and mounted weapons/chassis extensions to make some sort of fast attack vehicle, transport or artillery and you have all the bits needed to play with all of these, and between games you can switch the configuration easily? Then you can have many options for relatively less for your army and you can start buying more marines I guess with the savings...
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Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 05:51:21
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ielthan wrote:I'm a bit surprised at how many people want a new larger scale avatar, isn't that what the forgeworld one is? Just get that, it's not dissimilarly priced from an equivalent plastic one would cost. I have the one with spear and can tell you it's absolutely perfect!
A lot of people either...
-Don't want to work with resin, because it's a pain, has many flaws, etc...
-Don't want to order from ForgeWorld, because of long shipping times, or unavailability in their country...
I do like the bigger avatar from ForgeWorld, I think it's perfect, but it'd be nice to have that... in plastic.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 08:33:33
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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Ielthan wrote:I'm a bit surprised at how many people want a new larger scale avatar, isn't that what the forgeworld one is? Just get that, it's not dissimilarly priced from an equivalent plastic one would cost. I have the one with spear and can tell you it's absolutely perfect!
Because it would standardize the larger avatar. Currently, if you are using the FW avatar, you would be modelling for disadvantage as he is larger and more visible whereas you'd be paying the points for the smallvatar. Then there is the FW disconnect and the resin issue.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Bigvatar and am glad to have bought it, but it is such a different beast from the GW avatar.
Regarding the avatar issue I think we have a problem as Daughters of Khaine has an Avatar of Khaine in plastic which probably dissuades GW from upgrading a specific kit for Eldar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 08:46:08
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Eldarsif wrote:Regarding the avatar issue I think we have a problem as Daughters of Khaine has an Avatar of Khaine in plastic which probably dissuades GW from upgrading a specific kit for Eldar.
Well if I'm not mistaken, considering it's literally the statue from the cauldron of blood released for 8th WFB they decided could double up as something else when they did the DoK, they might be able to afford doing a real one
It's not even presented as such anymore on their website.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 08:50:53
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Fixture of Dakka
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dhallnet 796396 11075686 wrote:
Tell this to DE/SOB/Necron, they seem not aware ^^ (and updating a range brings new players)
If GW thinks that eldar are making them enough money, they will stay the way they are, if they are really under perform, GW will either reset or squat them and replace with another model line. Also the question with new players for non marine players always boils down to, is the cost of doing that worth the risk and investment. SoBs didn't exist as a model line other then recasts and necron had a plastic line, which few people played in 8th. GW does update armies other then marines, but they never update non marines at the cost of puting out new marines. It is always at the cost of non marine armies, and this will not change until marines stop being the main money maker for GW.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 09:20:42
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Karol wrote:dhallnet 796396 11075686 wrote:
Tell this to DE/SOB/Necron, they seem not aware ^^ (and updating a range brings new players)
If GW thinks that eldar are making them enough money, they will stay the way they are, if they are really under perform, GW will either reset or squat them and replace with another model line.
Eldars doesn't cost them anything anymore outside of the materials used to cast them, particularly when you consider price increases over time. Or you're thinking they're still looking at return on investments on 20+ year olds miniatures ?
Also the question with new players for non marine players always boils down to, is the cost of doing that worth the risk and investment.
Unless they completely miss the mark, it always has been and pretty much always will be risk free since models sells for decades. What it boils down to is how fast they get their money back.
Which is obviously a consideration but we're talking about eldars, if they could do it before for other factions, they can do it for them as they always have been until recently one of the more popular factions.
SoBs didn't exist as a model line other then recasts
The whole range of metal SoB + vehicles has always been available on GWs website.
and necron had a plastic line, which few people played in 8th.
And ? So what you're saying is that since they might still sell because "eldars are always super over powered, duh", they're not interested in remaking them ? So why aren't they remaking at least the models that don't sell. Because I doubt they sold much of anything outside of what has been updated already.
And look, they already started to do it with Banshees. They just need to do it for, I dunno, let's say fifteen other entries, with one every few years, the range might be up to date by... ah well, never since they will have to restart the cycle as soon as they are done updating the current lacking kits. So there will always be a good bunch of unappealing kits in the range, which will then drag down the performance of the whole range. Seems a bit counterproductive.
GW does update armies other then marines, but they never update non marines at the cost of puting out new marines. It is always at the cost of non marine armies, and this will not change until marines stop being the main money maker for GW.
Ok ?
As said times and times over and over, marines can't stop being the main money maker when they are updated as much as they are and this hasn't stopped GW making stuff from the ground up. Nowadays they are actually making more stuff that isn't marines than before while making even more marines than ever by remaking the whole range.
And they don't even need to stop being the leaders of the range, they just need to give space to other products at some point. Which I hope we're going to see after the last few kits are released.
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This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/03/11 09:43:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 10:52:39
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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dhallnet wrote:The whole range of metal SoB + vehicles has always been available on GWs website. GW pulled the sisters box sets from the site in 2010, and they had been off the shelves a while before that. The codex was also discontinued shortly after and (aside from a two month window) you literally could not buy rules for them until a digital-only release at the end of 2013. During that time GW also discontinued the bulk of model variants and forgeworld dropped everything.
The plastic immolator chassis was pulled in 2015. The total sisters metal line was reduced down to:
-eight bolter sisters, four repentia, two seraphim
-six special weapon sisters, four characters
Some of the models were later revived as GW geared up toward the new line but there is a reason why jokes about 'the last three sisters players in the world' and similar were common. Pre-existing players were not going to be GWs target market.
Karol wrote:and necron had a plastic line, which few people played in 8th
If i'm not mistaken the current/ongoing release is actually the first update for the necrons core plastic kits from 2002?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 11:01:57
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Fixture of Dakka
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Possible, but from what I understand the line was plastic. the tanks, the units etc were all plastic. I can't judge the characters, because people here buy recasts of those, but even if all were resin too, this is still a largely finish plastic model line comparing to a resin SoB or almost resin eldar one.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 11:10:23
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A.T. wrote:GW pulled the sisters box sets from the site in 2010, and they had been off the shelves a while before that. The codex was also discontinued shortly after and (aside from a two month window) you literally could not buy rules for them until a digital-only release at the end of 2013. During that time GW also discontinued the bulk of model variants and forgeworld dropped everything.
The plastic immolator chassis was pulled in 2015. The total sisters metal line was reduced down to:
-eight bolter sisters, four repentia, two seraphim
-six special weapon sisters, four characters
Some of the models were later revived as GW geared up toward the new line but there is a reason why jokes about 'the last three sisters players in the world' and similar were common. Pre-existing players were not going to be GWs target market.
Which, as far as I know, isn't much less than they ever had (bought the bulk of mine during the witch hunter release though, so I didn't exactly kept on top of things). There was a few combi weapon sisters (2 ?), banner (1) and superiors (a few) missing afaik from the original range (but not sure they survived the witch hunter codex launch anyway). I also think there were more than 2 seraphims available (I think I bought a box of five from them in 201X, not sure anymore but there was as a bare minimum a superior+normal+special pistols), there also was 2 (?) simulacrum available and crusaders, priests, death cult assassins and probably arco-flag (not sure) too even though not "sisters". Anyway, sure there wasn't much diversity but they weren't "recast only" which was what prompted that answer (but of course, they weren't selling much).
Being one of the "the last few" and not needing them, I didn't know the immolator was removed in 2015. I was under the impression they were still available as I think I also bought a late exorcist at some point (which was a huge mistake btw, never bothered dealing with the combined metal/plastic kit again).
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Metal
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This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2021/03/11 11:25:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 11:20:41
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ok ?
As said times and times over and over, marines can't stop being the main money maker when they are updated as much as they are and this hasn't stopped GW making stuff from the ground up. Nowadays they are actually making more stuff that isn't marines than before while making even more marines than ever by remaking the whole range.
And they don't even need to stop being the leaders of the range, they just need to give space to other products at some point. Which I hope we're going to see after the last few kits are released.
Ok, then I don't understand what eldar players are unhappy about. Besides their armies not having good rules right now. GW does not spend more time updating marines more then they usually do, they do update other factions and from ground up. they just don't seem to see any need to do it with eldar at the start of 9th ed and through out most of 8th. Or do eldar player claim that ad mecha or DG shouldn't have gotten their updated and they should have gotten it instead?
Eldars doesn't cost them anything anymore outside of the materials used to cast them, particularly when you consider price increases over time. Or you're thinking they're still looking at return on investments on 20+ year olds miniatures ?
it costs them in the term of lost possible income. |If they produce something like indomitus, or even its scalper version like honored of the chapter, it will sell and it will sell with larger numbers then trying to sell anything else. And then they have to weight it against the update slots eldar share with other non marine armies. What will make GW more money. A new necron or sob line, which maybe isn't selling at all in its past form, or a new eldar line. And if GW decideds that making new necron or sob will make them more money, then making new eldar, they will update those first. Through out 8th ed eldar seemed to have sold just fine from GW point of view. And if it is fine, then why should they change it. And I don't claim that this makes the eldar player happy, but being angry at it is like being angry at reality.
Which is obviously a consideration but we're talking about eldars, if they could do it before for other factions, they can do it for them as they always have been until recently one of the more popular factions.
well clearly GW decided that updating all the factions they updated in 8th and 9th, other then eldar, would have made them more money. And there were more then a few. Ad mecha got a ton of models, as did knights, new necron, new sob , new DG. Even csm got a good chunk of a new model line, same as demons that share the line with AoS. One can not say that GW did not make new model lines for w40k. They just decided that updating stuff like tau, eldar or d eldar is not profitable enough at given time.
The whole range of metal SoB + vehicles has always been available on GWs website.
considering the cost of a single unit, I would say that SoB made not a very valid army for w40k players. And I think it was even true for people living in countries other my.
So what you're saying is that since they might still sell because "eldars are always super over powered, duh", they're not interested in remaking them ?
well that too. But the fact is that rules do sell the models. I doubt there is much sells being generated by marine scouts right now. Attack bikes on the other hand are popular. So if an army is old, and eldar clearly are an old army when some units are considered, but people still play it because it has powerful rules, and by playing I mean also buying the models, GW is satisifed with that. I don't think they really care how old their model line is or how good their rule sets are. As long as someone goes out and buys 3-5 flyers and 30 dark reapers, and some jetbikers to convert in to shining spears they find it okey enough. Now if line does not sell at all, it is a completly different problem. The question is, what is easier to do for them Update the rules and make people buy the old models again, they can clearly make marine players want to buy attack bikes or venguard vets or old dreadnoughts, or invest time and money to make a new model line. I think the first is easier for them to do, and in many ways, this is what they have done with eldar a few times. They also did the other thing too, from stories I heard when GW updated eldar with new plastic models, the waveserpents, jetbikers and wright knights were selling crazy good. having powerful rules helped with that too of course.
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If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2021/03/11 11:22:14
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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drbored wrote:Ielthan wrote:I'm a bit surprised at how many people want a new larger scale avatar, isn't that what the forgeworld one is? Just get that, it's not dissimilarly priced from an equivalent plastic one would cost. I have the one with spear and can tell you it's absolutely perfect!
A lot of people either...
-Don't want to work with resin, because it's a pain, has many flaws, etc...
-Don't want to order from ForgeWorld, because of long shipping times, or unavailability in their country...
I do like the bigger avatar from ForgeWorld, I think it's perfect, but it'd be nice to have that... in plastic.
Agreed, I only want to work in plastic. A plastic avatar would be great.
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Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k |
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