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Saw warhammer community post with White dwarf preview

Had a mini heart attack when i saw the dire avengers in the cover "maybe some eldar/xeno news" i throught

Nope, do you know how to paint your old-enought-to-drink models in the bie tan (like there are no 100000 tutorials already) scheme? well now you know it


Oh and here another unique SM chapter with new rules and shenanigans (cant be wounded on 2+ and 5 MW fnp lol)

Jesus Christ sorry but this is becoming unbearable

nononono, its all in your head, its always been like that, marines sell more so they need more support, just wait and see, but necrons got a codex so xenos cant complain.

Its all so tiresome

the sad thing is, because (IIRC anyway) these white-dwarf chapters can never get any of the special rules goodies from the supplements, they're just dead rules content. Unlike, say, adding a new Craftworld or Hive Fleet or Kultur or Forgeworld where you'd be utterly changing the ball game potentially and where a WD article could easily add the same amount of content as a codex book subfaction, they just keep piling on DOA marine chapters as...I don't know, noob traps for suckers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"We can't use WD to publish rules content for non-marine armies, it's too niche and nobody will play it, instead here's rules content for marines, we made sure it was 100% worse than every other option available so nobody will play it."

It's Monday, so that means it's time for our weekly Space Marine Hate Thread!

*pops popcorn*

Quasistellar wrote:
It's Monday, so that means it's time for our weekly Space Marine Hate Thread!

*pops popcorn*

Well, every monday GW gives us a reason to do so tho

White Dwarf has been separated from the release schedule for some time now.

 InVerno wrote:
with new rules and shenanigans (cant be wounded on 2+ and 5 MW fnp lol)

It's just the Stalwart and Warded successor tactics. Literally any homemade SM chapter can have those.

the_scotsman wrote:
the sad thing is, because (IIRC anyway) these white-dwarf chapters can never get any of the special rules goodies from the supplements, they're just dead rules content. Unlike, say, adding a new Craftworld or Hive Fleet or Kultur or Forgeworld where you'd be utterly changing the ball game potentially and where a WD article could easily add the same amount of content as a codex book subfaction, they just keep piling on DOA marine chapters as...I don't know, noob traps for suckers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"We can't use WD to publish rules content for non-marine armies, it's too niche and nobody will play it, instead here's rules content for marines, we made sure it was 100% worse than every other option available so nobody will play it."

I mean, if it was better than every other option available the opposite complaints would be made and people would complain about needing to buy DLC.
They cannot win in either case.

Wasn't there a Necron Dynasty faction thing added? Or was it just lore stuff?

Personal speculative statement here:
I've wondered if the reason why they have not really mucked about doing other factions is not simply "all mareenz all the time!" but they've got stuff planned for the codex drops. We had some minor Forge Worlds named in the AdMech book that did not see rules. I'm sure other factions have had stuff like that too, but those things could have made it into WD articles unless the plan is to add them whenever the new books finally drop.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
with new rules and shenanigans (cant be wounded on 2+ and 5 MW fnp lol)

It's just the Stalwart and Warded successor tactics. Literally any homemade SM chapter can have those.

Yeah, but my point still stands, with the xenos in cover i hoped for some news, also they could put some rules that could seriusly help outdated armies but they keep sucking on marines instead



I would very, VERY glad to buy a WD dlc that helps me not get steamrolled by the newest armyes, also, still no news/roadmap on new codex or models, the biel tan tutorial is a literall middle finger to all who hoped for some news

Bit of a pisstake I know, wouldn't take much effort to just add another Craftworld/Cult/Sept/whatever. Instead we get Marines who are wounded on 3+ by Lascannons rather than 2+. Not sure why anyone would take this over the other traits, I suppose the 5 Exorcist players in the world would probably just do that instead.

the_scotsman wrote:

"We can't use WD to publish rules content for non-marine armies, it's too niche and nobody will play it, instead here's rules content for marines, we made sure it was 100% worse than every other option available so nobody will play it."

Remember how fun it was the last few times GW gave xeno rules in a WD? It was so unfun and unbalanced that GW had to put the rules out again because simple nerfs and changes were never enough.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
with new rules and shenanigans (cant be wounded on 2+ and 5 MW fnp lol)

It's just the Stalwart and Warded successor tactics. Literally any homemade SM chapter can have those.

Yeah, I know. That makes it more silly, not less silly. Instead of being like "hey, you can give up your....12 unique stratagems, 6 unique relics, 6 powers, 6 warlord traits and superdoctrine for these...3 strats, 3 relics and 3 traits" they could, I don't know, do something like promoting their recent admech model range expansion with a new Forgeworld "Cossakia V" with a trait, single strat, single relic, single WL trait that encourage a mobile, hit-and-run playstyle that would lend itself to someone wanting to make a big army heavily featuring the new admech cavalry, jump infantry and tie in some of the oddball units like Ruststalkers and Ironstriders that have never really had good synergy with any of the admech traits.

And then you could just...include that new Forgeworld in the codex in the future. Wow! White Dwarf Rules Content that might actually add something to the game as a whole! And it would take LESS effort? And facilitate the sales of more recent kits BETTER? Wild!

Or, oh, here's another freebie: throw out a variant Necron trait that works the same way the orks' Cheeky Zoggerz trait works, but for Cult of Destruction and Flayed Ones units, to sell the new Kill Team expansion with flayed ones, and the new not-wraith destroyers. Wow, a whole new playstyle suddenly opens up for necrons! You could even have it be like "if your warlord HQ is a destroyer lord or a fear-o-mancer you get +3CP from a Vanguard or Outrider detachment"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

"We can't use WD to publish rules content for non-marine armies, it's too niche and nobody will play it, instead here's rules content for marines, we made sure it was 100% worse than every other option available so nobody will play it."

Remember how fun it was the last few times GW gave xeno rules in a WD? It was so unfun and unbalanced that GW had to put the rules out again because simple nerfs and changes were never enough.

.....I legitimately don't remember: Was the last time the Ynnari nerf? What did they change from that to Psychic Awakening, I thought it was literally just a 1-for-1 reprint of the white dwarf stuff?

It’s not hate for space marines, pretty sure very 40K player likes space marines. I don’t think you could play 40K if you didn’t because they are probably the biggest part of the setting, regardless models and codexes.

It’s hate for the saturation of SM. Fair enough GW needed to refresh the SM range so we have had a the largest range of models replaced. But so much of the extra stuff is SM it’s just becoming boring, ltd edition lieutenant one week, another index the next week. As if people can’t home brew thier own chapter.

I think GW have gotten themselves in a negative loop with most xenos armies. They don’t sell so they don’t invest in them so then they don’t sell. I don’t know what came first.

How many people put their just have space marine armies? I’m sure many people would want to invest in a cool xenos army.

The Exorcist chapter is really cool, I do look forward to reading about them in the next issue. I'm happy to read about different marine chapters. I think Aeldari stuff is cool too, but doesn't inspire me the same way the lore of different marine chapters do.

I think hes talking about the harlequin stuff we got (pivotal role etc)

 InVerno wrote:
I think hes talking about the harlequin stuff we got (pivotal role etc)

...but they didn't put those rules out again. As far as I know. But you're right, that might have been the last time a xenos faction got WD rules.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I mean, if it was better than every other option available the opposite complaints would be made and people would complain about needing to buy DLC.
They cannot win in either case.

There's a third option besides underpowered and overpowered.

And at the very least, if WD content were labeled just-for-fun, not-tournament-legal then casual players could have some more content to play with while tournament players can stick with their closed ecosystem of ostensibly better balanced rules.

I don't understand why they would release space marine chapter rules that can already be duplicated with successor traits. We don't need any additional ways to play space marines. They are already one of the most versatile armies in the game (probably the most).

Give us Eldar rules please when you put eldar on the cover.

They would release it because they know that players will always prefer material released by GW to material created by players even when (especially when?) those players are using whatever DIY system that GW provided.

 catbarf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I mean, if it was better than every other option available the opposite complaints would be made and people would complain about needing to buy DLC.
They cannot win in either case.

There's a third option besides underpowered and overpowered.

And at the very least, if WD content were labeled just-for-fun, not-tournament-legal then casual players could have some more content to play with while tournament players can stick with their closed ecosystem of ostensibly better balanced rules.

Given that tournaments set their own allowance of what is/isn't legal, that's a pointless endeavour.

the_scotsman wrote:
the sad thing is, because (IIRC anyway) these white-dwarf chapters can never get any of the special rules goodies from the supplements, they're just dead rules content. Unlike, say, adding a new Craftworld or Hive Fleet or Kultur or Forgeworld where you'd be utterly changing the ball game potentially and where a WD article could easily add the same amount of content as a codex book subfaction, they just keep piling on DOA marine chapters as...I don't know, noob traps for suckers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"We can't use WD to publish rules content for non-marine armies, it's too niche and nobody will play it, instead here's rules content for marines, we made sure it was 100% worse than every other option available so nobody will play it."

The Emperor’s Spears one at least explicitly called out that they were Ultras successors so you could use the Ultramarine supplement. I suspect this one will be the same with the IF supplement.

Possibly not - I seem to recall the Exorcists being one of those "unknown Progenitor" Chapters.

InVerno wrote:Yeah, but my point still stands, with the xenos in cover i hoped for some news, also they could put some rules that could seriusly help outdated armies but they keep sucking on marines instead

Sure, and I wasn't disagreeing with that. I'm as sick and tired of the endless marine stuff (and corresponding lack of xenos material) as you are. You seemed to be upset by the Exorcists' chapter tactics specifically, though. It sounded like you thought they were OP or something, but that's the danger of attempting to infer another person's tone on the internet.

the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, I know. That makes it more silly, not less silly.

Oh, I agree. See above, though.

Dysartes wrote:Possibly not - I seem to recall the Exorcists being one of those "unknown Progenitor" Chapters.

Not anymore. The WarCom preview states they're an IF successor now.

White Dwarf used to be cool. Compendiums were cool. Current hasbroification is not cool.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I don't understand why they would release space marine chapter rules that can already be duplicated with successor traits. We don't need any additional ways to play space marines. They are already one of the most versatile armies in the game (probably the most).

Give us Eldar rules please when you put eldar on the cover.

Agreed. Bait and switch is mean.

 jaredb wrote:
The Exorcist chapter is really cool, I do look forward to reading about them in the next issue. I'm happy to read about different marine chapters. I think Aeldari stuff is cool too, but doesn't inspire me the same way the lore of different marine chapters do.

Which does point out to one of the worst imbalance in the game. Marines have a plethora and wealth of lore that we probably now know which toilet paper or three sea shells Azrael uses and what Cigar type Fabius likes. Meanwhile all of xenos is played as "mysterious" threats that we do not know the full scope of which ends up with the problem that you have an easier time to get yourself into the spirit of a marine chapter than xenos.

Basically all the xenos races need more lore and fiction written about them.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
The Exorcist chapter is really cool, I do look forward to reading about them in the next issue. I'm happy to read about different marine chapters. I think Aeldari stuff is cool too, but doesn't inspire me the same way the lore of different marine chapters do.

Which does point out to one of the worst imbalance in the game. Marines have a plethora and wealth of lore that we probably now know which toilet paper or three sea shells Azrael uses and what Cigar type Fabius likes. Meanwhile all of xenos is played as "mysterious" threats that we do not know the full scope of which ends up with the problem that you have an easier time to get yourself into the spirit of a marine chapter than xenos.

Basically all the xenos races need more lore and fiction written about them.

This is not the case in the slightest. All the Tabletop Xenos races are fairly well-developed. We know how Tau and Eldar lives are structured, for example.

Eldarsif wrote:

three sea shells Azrael uses

I'm not sure if Azrael wipes their ass, probably associates it with the FALLEN.....

But deep quote nonetheless.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
The Exorcist chapter is really cool, I do look forward to reading about them in the next issue. I'm happy to read about different marine chapters. I think Aeldari stuff is cool too, but doesn't inspire me the same way the lore of different marine chapters do.

Which does point out to one of the worst imbalance in the game. Marines have a plethora and wealth of lore that we probably now know which toilet paper or three sea shells Azrael uses and what Cigar type Fabius likes. Meanwhile all of xenos is played as "mysterious" threats that we do not know the full scope of which ends up with the problem that you have an easier time to get yourself into the spirit of a marine chapter than xenos.

Basically all the xenos races need more lore and fiction written about them.

This is not the case in the slightest. All the Tabletop Xenos races are fairly well-developed. We know how Tau and Eldar lives are structured, for example.

Not at all, we do not know what are the phoenix lord doing for example, best we got is some Jain zar story

Also the ynnari, the ones that are closer to defeat a chaos god have 2 book at best and dont even have a own codex

Theyr lore is always some "see how x craftwolrd escape slaanesh plan"

While we have a story on how may time calgar sneeze while ripping some khorne lord of skull head (lol)

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
The Exorcist chapter is really cool, I do look forward to reading about them in the next issue. I'm happy to read about different marine chapters. I think Aeldari stuff is cool too, but doesn't inspire me the same way the lore of different marine chapters do.

Which does point out to one of the worst imbalance in the game. Marines have a plethora and wealth of lore that we probably now know which toilet paper or three sea shells Azrael uses and what Cigar type Fabius likes. Meanwhile all of xenos is played as "mysterious" threats that we do not know the full scope of which ends up with the problem that you have an easier time to get yourself into the spirit of a marine chapter than xenos.

Basically all the xenos races need more lore and fiction written about them.

This is not the case in the slightest. All the Tabletop Xenos races are fairly well-developed. We know how Tau and Eldar lives are structured, for example.

I am referring to the overall lore which includes the novels as well. A huge exploration for players of their faction's lore involves the novels and there the Space Marines are featured a majority of the time which gives players a greater insight into the Imperium, their chapter(as well as friendly imperium factions/chapters), as well as a varied group of named characters. I mean, Space Marines have over 50 books detailing the fall of the Imperium and how it affects Space Marines in their internal fighting.