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Hey y'all, remember at the end of seventh when GW put out those 'Triumvirate of X' boxes? Does it feel to anyone else like GW maybe MASSIVELY regrets ever having made those boxes for some reason and is making the contents of them as difficult to make use of as possible?

Triumvirate of Ynnead: Ynnari are among the worst factions in the game, have been redesigned 9 billion times each time requiring a ynnari army to be structured completely differently, still only have exactly 3 models, can't use any of the characters they're in-lore working with right now, and now they've revealed the new Drukhari doctrines-equivalent rule, and guess what? if even a single model isn't DRUKHARI, you don't get power from pain. So even though they GAVE the Ynnari HQs the ability to be used in an eldar detachment without that detachment being Ynnari....they don't get the same treatment as Imperial Agents, if you take even a single one in your Drukhari list you lose PFP.

Belisarius Cawl: Hope when you bought this guy before admech had subfactions you planned on playing your admech as Mars, because we are not going to give this guy a rule that lets him be taken in any subfaction's list!

Celestine: Celestine herself is OK, but those two ladies that come with her in the box are by far the worst units in SoB.

Inquisitor....Greyfox? legitimately forget her name: Is basically an inquisitor with no special rules and no particular reason to field her, and has always been that. Also you have to buy a whole separate book just to get her rules.

Cypher: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The restrictions and sheer hilarious gakiness of trying to field a Fallen army at this point is absolutely off the wall. Can you imagine trying to play a 2k point game of fallen vs dark angels? Where the DA get all their marine 2.0 and 3.0 stuff and the fallen get not even a fething chapter tactic, 1 wound, and they only have Fallen Squads, Cypher, Sorcerors, and Rhinos and that's it?

Guilliman: nerfed six dozen times throughout 8th, and now in 9th you have to bring one of your 3 detachments just to field this one. single. dude. even if your army is ultramarines.

Grey Knight Hammer Man: Honestly I don't know anything about this cat. Maybe he's doing fine. Chime in, I guess, GK players? Do you use Mr. Hammer?

Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

The Ynnari one is edging towards unusable at this point.

Cawl is more likely than not going to be getting a "Supreme Commander" styled rule, ala Shadowsun.

The gemini superia is actually a great model in the sisters right now. Very cheap and fast for an action monkey with char protection.

The issue with her is that the elite slots in sisters are quite contended, and that you don't need to give your opponent more reasons to select assassinate against sisters.

The best way to play the Fallen is to take Cypher and a minimum squad of Fallen in a patrol detachment and then go commandeer a Guard regiment.

Small nitpick, Greyfax actually does have multiple special rules. Namely, the ability to ignore Look Out, Sir against psykers and +1 to deny the witch attempts (plus master-crafted equipment). That said, she's certainly not amazing.

With how strong Mortarion is, I'm hoping both Magnus and Guilliman get some buffs.

the_scotsman wrote:
Celestine: Celestine herself is OK, but those two ladies that come with her in the box are by far the worst units in SoB.

Inquisitor....Greyfox? legitimately forget her name: Is basically an inquisitor with no special rules and no particular reason to field her, and has always been that. Also you have to buy a whole separate book just to get her rules.

At the start of 8th Celestines meatshields significantly boosted her durability, and she was turning up in other armies taking advantage of the 'inverse ninja' faith system. So GW beat them with the nerf bat and then kind of forgot they existed.

Greyfax - two deny the witch rolls at +1 and occasionally terrify, same as ever but far less valuable between the changes to overwatch and the psychic mastery trait. But GW have kicked the inquistion to the kerb in general rather than greyfax specifically.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies

Cypher was a popular choice when he was initially released as he was an easy way to add Hit And Run to a unit if memory serves me right. In fact I'm 90% certain he was used in various Centurion and Wolf death stars.

 Imateria wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

The Ynnari one is edging towards unusable at this point.

I regularly use one of the three models in my games. Played the Yncarne last week and this week.

I am excited to see 9th edition rules for these minis, but I would not say they near unusable. YMMV.

 Sarigar wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

The Ynnari one is edging towards unusable at this point.

I regularly use one of the three models in my games. Played the Yncarne last week and this week.

I am excited to see 9th edition rules for these minis, but I would not say they near unusable. YMMV.

Nayden just won a tournament with the Yvraine too.

Yvraine and Yncarne are definitely competitive choices. The Visarch is sadly lagging without a real role to fill.

Inquisitor Greyfax stands in my glass cabinet. Nice model.
The other stuff like Celestine, Cawl & UM Primarch? Forgettable scale creep garbage.

 Imateria wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

The Ynnari one is edging towards unusable at this point.

Likely get imperial agent treatment. Unlike op claims imperial agents don't work same way. No negating mono bonus with agent.

The same thing gw has against all their customers: You have money you haven't given to us yet.

That Fallen detachment is illegal now too, actually. You can still take them as "Shadowy Allies" but they can't go in a Rhino or be buffed by the Sorceror.

I bought the Imperium one, sold Belisarius and Greyfax at a profit and Celestine has always performed for me.

Really, the only problematic models are Cypher for being so niche and the Ynnari ones.

I mean, I certainly can't help but wonder if GW regrets even making Ynnari a thing, given that they've done naff-all with the concept since 7th.

 vipoid wrote:
I mean, I certainly can't help but wonder if GW regrets even making Ynnari a thing, given that they've done naff-all with the concept since 7th.

I've wondered that myself.

GW really need to gak or get off the pot when it comes to the Eldar.

1. Stagnation of the Craftworld line, as it holds some of the oldest miniatures in 40k history.
2. Complete waste of time new DE release, with a whole single new miniature to their name.
3. Nothing on Ynnari since it's inception (other than some heads in the Banshee kit... whoop de gak!).
4. The last Harlequin release was for Imperial armies!!!

 vipoid wrote:
I mean, I certainly can't help but wonder if GW regrets even making Ynnari a thing, given that they've done naff-all with the concept since 7th.

If they hadn't started making models and thought of doing something different then that is a lead time of 3-4 years until you actually get something for that faction.

I mean, if GW suddenly decides to make a big Craftworld revamp today and pour money into it we won't be seeing the fruit of that choice until 3-4 years later. GW development appears to be very inflexible from the interviews we've seen and so on. So even if GW started a full revamp of their CW line about 2 years ago we won't be seeing anything from that line until a year from now.

On the plus side, if they already have finished a line and have all the base bodies on file they can churn additional models rather quickly. Something you see with the Primaris Lieutenants.

 vipoid wrote:
I mean, I certainly can't help but wonder if GW regrets even making Ynnari a thing, given that they've done naff-all with the concept since 7th.

GW don't appear to be shy of 'launch it and leave it' these days - just look at the blackstone models.

What do you mean by this?
Do you mean that the models from BSF don't work well in regular 40k? Or that it was an unsupported game?

 Imateria wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Cawl, Celetine, Guilliman and Voldrus are all still decent choices in their respective armies. The rest are fluffy choices and still good models.

Why would GW regret producing these boxes? They were well received and sold well didn't they?

The Ynnari one is edging towards unusable at this point.

Yvraine seems popular. Obviously they will need to get caught up to 9th ( as do most of these models ).

 Gert wrote:
What do you mean by this?
Do you mean that the models from BSF don't work well in regular 40k? Or that it was an unsupported game?

I mean that GW are making quite a few releases these days that are either launched and sold out in a matter of weeks (or less), launched without futher support, or a mix of both.

BSF had like a year of releases and a bunch of White Dwarf stuff to go alongside it. Off the top of my head, there were 7(?) box releases at least with all bar one being new models plus about 4 or 5 issues of WD missions and additional characters. For a box game, I'd say it had a much longer life than the previous Warhammer Quest games and the totally-not-HH-starter-set games. All the specialist games (Necromunda, Titanicus, Aeronautica, Blood Bowl) are getting constant rules/models as well. Barring Indomitus, which got an extended run anyway, the only things that seem to be selling out quickly are limited ed books.
The last expansion for BSF came out in August 2019 and was on sale for quite a while. GW has moved on to Cursed City which they have said will follow a similar style of updates to BSF IIRC.

A little over three years ago I found an assembled but unpainted Cypher in our bargain bin for $10. Sat on my shelf for a while, and then I decided to paint him over Thanksgiving 2019. Then I bought a bunch of Tartaros and Cataphractii Terminators and MkIII armour Space Marines and 30K Dreads to make a 30K themed (or is it Fallen?!?) list for a tourney. So that $10 bargain cost, don't want to know in the long run. Fun journey though, and he makes a fun "Captain" or "Lieutenant" for my Dark Angels on the odd occasion.

My real Cypher model is metal and he is under lock and key. I found him in a shoebox of free random minis someone "gifted" me. How convenient...Right next to a metal Asmodai...

Yeah I don't get this criticism against BSF. Normal boardgames tend to have a much smaller lifecycle than tabletop wargames unless they become household names(Carcassone, Settlers of Catan, etc).

Not to derail the thread, but am I the only one who dislikes the fact that you HAVE to field one of the Triumvirate members to play Ynnari in the first place? I figured with that many aeldari "converted" for their cause there should be other leaders, archons, farseers, etc.
Given, I'm a massive fan of "your dude*ettes" but locking a whole army to three SCs just irritates me.

Waaaghbert wrote:
Not to derail the thread, but am I the only one who dislikes the fact that you HAVE to field one of the Triumvirate members to play Ynnari in the first place? I figured with that many aeldari "converted" for their cause there should be other leaders, archons, farseers, etc.
Given, I'm a massive fan of "your dude*ettes" but locking a whole army to three SCs just irritates me.

I understand the PoV, but I feel the opposite; if you don't wan't to field one of the Ynnari characters, what exactly is the attraction to to the faction in the first place.

That said, I'm not the one to ask, as I would be overjoyed if the Yvraine mini was formally reboxed as Lady Malys, the Visarch as an alternative Archon.

Sterling191 wrote:
Yvraine and Yncarne are definitely competitive choices. The Visarch is sadly lagging without a real role to fill.

I wouldnt call them competitive, the only real strong list i saw had the yncare in a clow list

Craftwold and ynnari are very far from competitive


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 harlokin wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
Not to derail the thread, but am I the only one who dislikes the fact that you HAVE to field one of the Triumvirate members to play Ynnari in the first place? I figured with that many aeldari "converted" for their cause there should be other leaders, archons, farseers, etc.
Given, I'm a massive fan of "your dude*ettes" but locking a whole army to three SCs just irritates me.

I understand the PoV, but I feel the opposite; if you don't wan't to field one of the Ynnari characters, what exactly is the attraction to to the faction in the first place.

That said, I'm not the one to ask, as I would be overjoyed if the Yvraine mini was formally reboxed as Lady Malys, the Visarch as an alternative Archon.

Tbh i used the visarch to do an awesome archon conversion