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Yeah they could easily say "you can use this with points in your matched play games if you like but they weren't written with that in mind". Just so matched players could jump in in their own way if they like.

I would have thought the same thing, but if you go back through the thread, some people are frustrated because there isn't ENOUGH matched play content.

Those guys obviously aren't interested in a book that doesn't have matched play content.

So how do you keep both groups happy?

Matched Play is not strictly Tournament Play and vice versa. Helpful thing to remember!

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think the key point here is the way they cravenly pushed a small amount of matched play content into what was otherwise a narrative campaign book, to try to get matched play players to shell out for it when they otherwise wouldn't. If they had just released a campaign book I doubt they'd be getting the same negative reactions, even if a lot of us still probably wouldn't have bought it. Even if they had done the exact same thing but made clear that the "Armies of Reknown" were not valid in matched play, it wouldn't have got the same reaction.

It's a really terrible look to be releasing "rules supplements" as day-1 DLC for $60 - or even pre-LC before they codex is even out - and it's an even worse look to do it before lots of other factions have codexes at all.

This is a second time I'm agreeing with you today - the end is near

What really bugs me is that it costs twice as much as the crusade mission packs, despite having less content for most players. For $30, I would just have picked it up for the campaign rules and taken the DG stuff as nice side-effect.

The Crusade packs are $40, not $30.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but GW ain't stupid. They know people in gaming groups will share out rules from books like this.

PenitentJake wrote:
I would have thought the same thing, but if you go back through the thread, some people are frustrated because there isn't ENOUGH matched play content.

Those guys obviously aren't interested in a book that doesn't have matched play content.

So how do you keep both groups happy?

How about by releasing two good books, instead of one that is all over the place and makes no one happy? One book dedicated to narrative content and one book dedicated to meaningful matched play extensions.

Almost no-one is going to buy this book. This is even worse value than that killteam box. At least I got Heavy intercessors in that one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think the key point here is the way they cravenly pushed a small amount of matched play content into what was otherwise a narrative campaign book, to try to get matched play players to shell out for it when they otherwise wouldn't. If they had just released a campaign book I doubt they'd be getting the same negative reactions, even if a lot of us still probably wouldn't have bought it. Even if they had done the exact same thing but made clear that the "Armies of Reknown" were not valid in matched play, it wouldn't have got the same reaction.

It's a really terrible look to be releasing "rules supplements" as day-1 DLC for $60 - or even pre-LC before they codex is even out - and it's an even worse look to do it before lots of other factions have codexes at all.

My friends and I have the same opinion. We are not going to buy any supplements until the majority of armies have their codex out. This is the model GW needs to adapt to or I simply wont buy.

Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that

Well put. As I've already explained, if all the matched play content were replaced with more of the campaign/legendary missions content, I'd totally would have pre-ordered it.

No, you would not have. You'd be right here complaining about something else.

It's okay to just say "I think it's too expensive" or "I don't think I like the content in it".

I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii. If the Army of Renown had been a Skitarii force? I'd have already bought the damn thing.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, you would not have. You'd be right here complaining about something else.

It's okay to just say "I think it's too expensive" or "I don't think I like the content in it".

I'm not buying it because it's focused on Cult Mechanicus rather than Skitarii. If the Army of Renown had been a Skitarii force? I'd have already bought the damn thing.

Ok, you really should go take a break from the forum now. Or go read my actual review and full reasoning I posted on this thread earlier instead of writing more dumb gak.

I guess you must really think GW can only release terrible books then if you already assume I'd be complaining about it

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I guess you must really think GW can only release terrible books then if you already assume I'd be complaining about it

Or I understand what kind of a community GW has?

People spend an ungodly amount of time complaining about things. I'm guilty of it myself for some stuff(Skitarii getting rolled in with Cult and losing literally all their flavor, Guard everything, and the horrible treatment of the Wanderers)...but people inevitably will always find something to gripe about.

 Kanluwen wrote:

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it's absolutely pointless to accuse people of bad faith on the internet. There's no possible discussion to be had if your argument is premised on the other person being a liar who can't be trusted when he says what he thinks about something because you know better what he actually thinks than he does himself.

If you ever get to the point in a discussion where all you can say is "you're lying, that's not what you really think" it is generally a good clue that it's time to step away from the discussion, because all that does is poison things and destroy any possibility for further discussion.

I own legit copies of all 8th and 9th edition books with ork or DG content in them, including vigilus, PA and the FW book for my exiled bikers, either as book or epub. I have the tournament mission pack, the BRB and the first crusade mission pack and plan on getting the second the next time I order something.

This book is in the same spot for me as the Urban Conquest book. It's just too much money for too little content.

Yeah, of all the people to accuse of being a hater who just wants to complain and pirate content rather than paying for it, I gotta say Jidmah is an odd choice.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

And? I never said it wasn't for sale still - I'm well aware that it is. Why would Narrative players want to buy this new book over the cheaper Mission Pack?
I don't see how this is meant to discredit me?

People would have PREFERRED if the content was split across two separate cheaper books that were sold individually, though it's not like there'd be enough Matched play content to justify that

No, some people are claiming they would have preferred it. There's literally zero guarantee they would have bought it. Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze were both around $50 a pop, and matched players still gobbled those up or just pirated the rules or tried the usual "I bOuGhT iT DiGiTaLlY bUt HeRe'S tHe PaGe" nonsense while whining nonstop about how broken/OP the Specialist Detachments were.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but what people say they would do in a hypothetical situation does not actually equate to what they do in reality.

Vigilus Defiant and Vigilus Ablaze not only had much more Matched Play content in them, but were also much more meta relevant. They also didn't come out within a year of the edition being released and far more armies had recieved updated codexes.

You're right, there's 0 guarantee they would have bought it... but that doesn't somehow mean they wouldn't prefer it. Those aren't equivalent statements. Maybe they care about the precedent it sets, maybe they have a friend or family member who would have bought it that also isn't happy at the state of affairs. There's many reasons someone that wouldn't purchase an improved version of the product would still prefer and be content with the improved version.

If in some alternate universe GW did release the campaign as two seperate books for Matched Play and Narrative play featuring the same factions, I wouldn't have preordered either of them because I don't play the factions involved and I don't currently care about Narrative play. However, I'd consider buying the Narrative book at a later date if I started caring about Narrative Play.

Right now though? I'd only consider getting the older Missions Pack.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.

I think you might be intending to reply to Matt Kingsley there, given that he's the one who commented:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

Personally? I'd just cut Matched Play out of these things period. Let them be in their own special bubble of Chapter Approved stuff forever and ever.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh boohoo, no "meaningful matched play extensions"?

If only there were some kind of tag used for Matched Play/"Competitive Play"!

Chapter Approved is for Matched Play. Frankly, this book shouldn't have had any Matched Play content.

Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

The Crusade Mission Pack is still $40. It's a separate item.

The Charadon book has more pages dedicated to narrative gaming/crusade than to matched play.
At least get your facts right.

I think you might be intending to reply to Matt Kingsley there, given that he's the one who commented:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Way to miss the point? The point was that there isn't enough Matched Play content to justify the large price tag for Matched Play players, and that the price tag is still too high for Narrative players to warrant buying it over the previous cheaper narrative supplement.

Personally? I'd just cut Matched Play out of these things period. Let them be in their own special bubble of Chapter Approved stuff forever and ever.

Ah yes, just cut out the part I said where people would have preferred if this release was two seperate books - one for Matched and one for Narrative.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Threads like this give me some hope that there is a point past which even a very easy-going frog cannot be boiled before it starts kicking up a fuss. One of the best things that could happen to GW would be is if these books end up as huge flops and it causes them to reconsider this "ever more rules, for ever more money" model.

Wait until a book drops with Marine content in it, that's when they'll see sales soar and be encouraged to push more.

If this book had been fully narrative it would have been better.

You can't justify additional matched play content this early into an edition.
It is kind of acceptable toward the end of an edition, to fix up the issues that the factions developed during it. But this early into an edition? In a narrative book? That's a cash grab.

No, it doesn't cover the armies I have. Even if it did, the price tag for the amount of content I would be using is way to high.

Yar har har for me.

For the simple reason that theres 3 of my armies in there that got content cut from their codex to release this day -x DLC.

Apart from a very occasional purchase, I have stopped buying GW books. Too many, too often and they don't offer enough value.

If this book was narrative only it'd sell as badly as all narrative-only books do. matched drives sales of books.

That being said, this one is still an overpriced cash grab.

Nah. No factions i play. I don"t buy those books just to read.

I play DG and I’m tempted to start Drukhari but this is money I’d rather spend on actually picking up the new DG and DE Codices and some models. If it was priced in the same range as the SM supplement books, I’d be more into it.

No, never even considered buying that book. I may read it from a Russian friend, some parts, and end up happy for not paying GW for tripe.