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 BlackoCatto wrote:
But that right there is the example, it's preachy garbage that instantly dated itself in how wrong it is only a few years later.

Also fake, because the actual quote is this:






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 BlackoCatto wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Dont ask that as you shall recieve.

It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.

Well... not what I asked, not what I received.

I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.

Also impossible.

And you didn't read other, I said inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. Not that a comic with politics can't ever be good.

Nothing makes a comic inherently better, so... yeah? Also, water's wet.

Ok, last posting of cringe in a comic book with something more modern. Boy sweating, this cringe got hands.

I... don't get it?

 Albertorius wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
But that right there is the example, it's preachy garbage that instantly dated itself in how wrong it is only a few years later.

Also fake, because the actual quote is this:






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 BlackoCatto wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Dont ask that as you shall recieve.

It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.

Well... not what I asked, not what I received.

I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.

Also impossible.

And you didn't read other, I said inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. Not that a comic with politics can't ever be good.

Nothing makes a comic inherently better, so... yeah? Also, water's wet.

You still try and cover for yourself.

Politics is seen by several writers these days so inherent that they forget in all their preaching and screeching that you have to write a good story first. No one would give a crap about Watchmen if the story sucked.

 BlackoCatto wrote:

You still try and cover for yourself.

Yes, sure. The point being?

Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.

Sorry, wasn't listening.

Was busy calling people nazis on twitter

Sure, you can write bad comic about any topic. You can write a comic that is an insightful allegory to an important social issue, or you can write one that is heavy handed and awkward. Similarly you can write a thrilling action adventure or formulaic and boring one.

So if inclusion of politics is a topic completely unrelated to quality, why it is even discussed?

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.

Very true, of course. If the only thing you're trying to do is peddle your political agenda it usually won't amount to a good story, and it would most probably be a screed.

I'm not sure I can say that of even a majority of people writing books nowadays or ever, though, and bad stories are not solely dependant on it being a political screed either. There's plenty of bad and/or stupid comics that are not screeds.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.

No, just because you don't think it should be political doesn't mean it isn't political any more or less than saying something is based in science doesn't make it political. If you're publishing a statement for the public to read, it's already political.

People are capable of making inelegant, uninteresting, unpersuasive, unoriginal, exclusionary entertainment whether or not it's overtly political. Also, welcome to the 21st c., not everything is made for everyone to enjoy. Which of course was always the case, but some people didn't notice before. I don't like court dramas' themes and usually find them boring, that doesn't mean I pitch a fit or complain about "writers today," every time someone puts out or talks about a new movie about snarky or affected dead rich people problems because the story they wanted to tell hasn't catered to my interests or demographic. The idea of a universal audience is just some nonsense some critics came up with when they really liked books written by people like them and for people like them, and decided that since all those people generally agreed probably everyone important agreed.

I'll also add that using the defense of "You don't like it because you don't agree with ut" is both a bad defense and terrible logic. Especially then because then one could say in response "You like only because you agree with it."


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 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.

No, just because you don't think it should be political doesn't mean it isn't political any more or less than saying something is based in science doesn't make it political. If you're publishing a statement for the public to read, it's already political.

People are capable of making inelegant, uninteresting, unpersuasive, unoriginal, exclusionary entertainment whether or not it's overtly political. Also, welcome to the 21st c., not everything is made for everyone to enjoy. Which of course was always the case, but some people didn't notice before. I don't like court dramas' themes and usually find them boring, that doesn't mean I pitch a fit or complain about "writers today," every time someone puts out or talks about a new movie about snarky or affected dead rich people problems because the story they wanted to tell hasn't catered to my interests or demographic. The idea of a universal audience is just some nonsense some critics came up with when they really liked books written by people like them and for people like them, and decided that since all those people generally agreed probably everyone important agreed.

They never said that comics shouldn't be,


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I'll also add once again without a pic as I am tired, there are comics where Capt. America is Union busting which is hilarious given by it was retconned by another writer due to their politics.

I want to see Captain America tackle the morality of employers enforcing covid vaccines.

Pro or Anti?

Wow, how massively off topic this has gotten. Lock time?

Goose LeChance wrote:
I want to see Captain America tackle the morality of employers enforcing covid vaccines.

Pro or Anti?

He was on the side of anti hero registration. Who knows, I wouldn't buy. Cspan is already pretty bad after the Coates run and recent anniversary book has made it worse.

Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.

This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.

All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.


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Goose LeChance wrote:
Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.

Perfect example.

ERJAK wrote:
This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.

All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.


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Goose LeChance wrote:
Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.

Perfect example.

As previous other posters logic states you own comment shills your own political ideology


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If of course everything is political XD and other garbage.

ERJAK wrote:
This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.

All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.


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Goose LeChance wrote:
Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.

Perfect example.

No, I just knew it would immediately make the "you only dislike it because you disagree with it" crowd really uncomfortable.

You want politics in comics? lets do this.

Goose LeChance wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.

All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.

Perfect example.

No, I just knew it would immediately make the "you only dislike it because you disagree with it" crowd really uncomfortable.

You want politics in comics? lets do this.

I already hated Civil War, agree or disagree, and the Cap being a nazi agent.

I can like a comic even if I loathe the politics exposed on it, or dislike a comic I agree with.

OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...

 Albertorius wrote:

OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...

A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.

Where does Captain America stand?

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...

A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.

Where does Captain America stand?

Bonus, teacher has a heart condition that puts her at risk potentially with the vaccine. She has talked with her doctor but is rather unsure of her heightened risk.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...

A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.

Where does Captain America stand?

And... this has to do with wearing a mask... how, exactly?

But wherever the writers want it to go, and however they want to depict the government and agencies doing it. I could see it going both ways.

Now do we keep the Cap storynin the current tradition of whenever the writers political party doesn't win Cap befomes inexplicably disillusioned with America?

 BlackoCatto wrote:

They never said that comics shouldn't be [political]

No, just that politics they disagreed with were bad and stupid and told bad stories.

I have to say, this thread is an utter shitshow.

Better than a Marvel comic

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:

They never said that comics shouldn't be [political]

No, just that politics they disagreed with were bad and stupid and told bad stories.

They as well said nothing about it being books of which they agreed or disagreed.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
Now do we keep the Cap storynin the current tradition of whenever the writers political party doesn't win Cap befomes inexplicably disillusioned with America?

Current? Heh

As I said, I could really see it go any one way, and you could give articulate thoughts, pros and cons to all POVs. And the inherent conflict between individual liberties versus the common good and sacrifices in hard times versus possible personal harm should allow for good storytelling one way or another.

This thread really needs an adult.

Short of that, a mod will do.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...

A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.

Where does Captain America stand?

Cap suffered from polio as a child is well understands the blessing vaccines are.

But he would never need to forcibly inject the teacher since he would give an inspiring speech complete with full color flashbacks and thousands of smiling children.

She would be moved to tears and inject herself.

Anyway I think we can call this thread a wrap. Though I would like a threat on either politics in comics or what's killing US comic sales.

Cheers.