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2021/05/25 15:17:46
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The new version of Deploy Scramblers, the evocatively named Retrieve Octarius Data
This is, quite possibly, the worst change they could have possibly made.
What is an Octarius, what data does it have, and why do Orks or Tyranids want to retrieve it? Let's keep the secondary objectives easy to say and remember, please. Plus side of "simple" objective names is it's easier to fluff Tyranids deploying scrambler spore bio-hives or whatever than it is for them to... retrieve... octarius data? whatever that is.
Yeah, that feels like a Space Marine centric name for a Space Marine biased objective, in a Space Marine favoured game.
longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard
2021/05/25 15:24:30
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I think they changed the names so people don't confuse the old ones and the new ones.
Quasistellar wrote: I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.
Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.
I agree, part of the reason why I don't think such a secondary should exist is the question why have secondaries in the first place? My answer to that question is that it's a good way to punish people for spamming similar units, playing against 100% horde or 100% vehicle can be an unfun experience unless you have 70% anti-horde or 70% anti-vehicle and if you have 100% anti-horde or anti-vehicle it will also be unfun because it will be too easy. Heavy infantry get countered by anti-infantry and anti-horde, there is no feels-bad in terms of wasting certain weapon profiles on them. There is no value in spamming them unless they simply happen to be undercosted relative to vehicle or horde units in your faction and the answer to that question is nerfing those units on pts. But gangbusters nerfs units that don't need nerfs, like Paladins, Wraithblades and Ogryn.
One possibility that wouldn't impact things too much would be counting wounds caused to non-vehicle non-monster units instead of models killed +9 for each vehicle/monster for the Thin Their Ranks secondary objective. Aaaand my suggestion is already in the game, well that was fast.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 15:29:50
2021/05/25 15:28:14
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The new version of Deploy Scramblers, the evocatively named Retrieve Octarius Data
This is, quite possibly, the worst change they could have possibly made.
What is an Octarius, what data does it have, and why do Orks or Tyranids want to retrieve it? Let's keep the secondary objectives easy to say and remember, please. Plus side of "simple" objective names is it's easier to fluff Tyranids deploying scrambler spore bio-hives or whatever than it is for them to... retrieve... octarius data? whatever that is.
Yeah, that feels like a Space Marine centric name for a Space Marine biased objective, in a Space Marine favoured game.
Well, feel free to call it 'Retrieve Tasty Biomass' if it suits you.
2021/05/25 15:34:41
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Yeah there's obviously not going to be an elite-infantry specific kill secondary now, they just changed thin the ranks to cover them instead.
I'm not sure how that is actually going to work, though: it is either going to be a guaranteed 15 points against any horde if the calculation is generous enough to make it relevant vs elite infantry, or it's still going to be a no-go vs stuff like custodes because the calculation is based around said hordes.
I.e. if you use the current calculation of 10 wounds = 1 point, that's pretty much pointless vs elite infantry armies like custodes or marines, your average list is going to only give up in the 7ish point range even if you table them, thanks to the exclusions for characters, vehicles, and monsters.
For example, my current custodes list only has 51 eligible wounds, that's 5 points. Marines lists might go a little higher - maybe in the 7-9 point range - though not much, with how popular the triple contemptors are, and how rare intercessor hordes are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 15:41:31
2021/05/25 16:06:10
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Quasistellar wrote: I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.
Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.
I agree, part of the reason why I don't think such a secondary should exist is the question why have secondaries in the first place? My answer to that question is that it's a good way to punish people for spamming similar units, playing against 100% horde or 100% vehicle can be an unfun experience unless you have 70% anti-horde or 70% anti-vehicle and if you have 100% anti-horde or anti-vehicle it will also be unfun because it will be too easy. Heavy infantry get countered by anti-infantry and anti-horde, there is no feels-bad in terms of wasting certain weapon profiles on them. There is no value in spamming them unless they simply happen to be undercosted relative to vehicle or horde units in your faction and the answer to that question is nerfing those units on pts. But gangbusters nerfs units that don't need nerfs, like Paladins, Wraithblades and Ogryn.
One possibility that wouldn't impact things too much would be counting wounds caused to non-vehicle non-monster units instead of models killed +9 for each vehicle/monster for the Thin Their Ranks secondary objective. Aaaand my suggestion is already in the game, well that was fast.
I think it's a great way to get at stuff like hyper rezzing DA and attack bikes who have few angles you can interact with.
2021/05/25 16:17:25
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Well that is great, specially for armies that don't run elite stuff. But it is not so good for for factions who have no options to not elite, specially if they are on the weaker side. There is already a problem of double dipping on secondaries. I don't think we need something that ends with armies doing three secondaries at the same time, killing the same one unit.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/25 16:29:09
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Karol wrote: I don't think we need something that ends with armies doing three secondaries at the same time, killing the same one unit.
I think you'll want to wait and see what comes out for psychic secondaries.
No Prisoners is Infantry, Bikes, and Swarms instead of any model = 1 and W10+ = 10. That places vehicles almost exclusively in Bring It Down and Characters exclusively in Assassinate. The only time you might have overlap would be with a titanic unit or with psychic.
So if you take a couple GMDKs and 10x5 marine units you'll give up you'll give up 4 for Bring It Down, 5 for No Prisoner ( 10 if you were W2 ), and 15 for Abhor. If you instead went something like 2x10 purifier, 3x5 strikes, 10 termies you'd give up 5 or 6 on No Prisoner and 12 on Abhor ( assuming you can keep the GMDKs alive ).
We also don't know if Abhor will change. Now watch people scramble to prevent W2 on CSM.
2021/05/25 16:32:03
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
p5freak wrote: I will not pay for points when they get released for free a few weeks later.
A few days bro. LOL.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2021/05/25 16:33:37
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I am waiting since start of 9th, and nothing from 8th ed history, makes me feel better about the possible rule sets. But If somehow termintor armies suddenly become really good, and GW does something to the super efficiency of open topped transports who knows, what can happen.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/25 16:35:16
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Eldarsif wrote: I expect point changes based on pre-Death Guard tournament results. These books are made few months in advance so I doubt we'll see any changes to DG or Drukhari.
I also expect some mission changes and changes to secondaries as well as new secondary objectives.
Basically the same I've expected from GHB over the years, but with this CA has basically the same point release cadence as AoS. Something I expected when CA was released in the GHB spot last year.
These are printed on the fly more than codexes.
Don't expect magic, because there are so many codexes incoming.
Best thing is to hope for properly revised secondaries.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bullyboy wrote: Most people have barely played since 9th came out with the original points/mission packs.
Depends where you live.
Free would be nice though.
Kinda sad that literally the most important step for balance is treated in an "on the fly" manner.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 16:35:27
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2021/05/25 16:38:18
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I'm a bit concerned that Titan Hunter (I forget the GT pack name) wasn't addressed in the article.
No Prisoners looks like it has promise but we'll see. As I said before I don't think there needs to be a specific "anti-elite" secondary, but it is nice to be able to count those wounds killed towards something.
This type of thing might be good against things like Death Guard poxwalkers + terminators, for instance. It's something, at least.
2021/05/25 16:54:15
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Karol wrote: Well that is great, specially for armies that don't run elite stuff. But it is not so good for for factions who have no options to not elite, specially if they are on the weaker side. There is already a problem of double dipping on secondaries. I don't think we need something that ends with armies doing three secondaries at the same time, killing the same one unit.
I think it should be pretty clear given that the new No Prisoners specifies units that dont have the VEHICLE, MONSTER or CHARACTER keywords that they are now trying to limit that double-dipping.
Personally, if this goes into affect and Abhor becomes something you can take that CANT be taken alongside the 'kill characters' one (which is IMO where the biggest problem of double-dipping on kill secondaries takes place) then I'm pretty happy.
.........and I know, literally every post you make is just vagueposting about "m-muh grey knights" but come on. At least try to figure out how many points youd actually give up with this new secondary for like a second. Your average hyper elite GK army would be packing like 6 points maximum with new No Prisoners.
This objective is going to be primarily helpful against armies that spam 5-8pts per wound models, not actual elite armies that tend to pay 12-15pts per wound. Hordes of Orks, Drukhari Hellions/Reavers/Courts of the Archon, etc.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/05/25 17:27:09
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Xenomancers wrote: Kinda sad that literally the most important step for balance is treated in an "on the fly" manner.
That's not what that means. You should know that by now.
I am confused. You literally said this is done on the fly and I agree with you on that. Now it seems you suggesting they put serious time into this? All the while they will ignore 85% of the models in every army.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2021/05/25 17:34:38
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I think it should be pretty clear given that the new No Prisoners specifies units that dont have the VEHICLE, MONSTER or CHARACTER keywords that they are now trying to limit that double-dipping.
Personally, if this goes into affect and Abhor becomes something you can take that CANT be taken alongside the 'kill characters' one (which is IMO where the biggest problem of double-dipping on kill secondaries takes place) then I'm pretty happy.
.........and I know, literally every post you make is just vagueposting about "m-muh grey knights" but come on. At least try to figure out how many points youd actually give up with this new secondary for like a second. Your average hyper elite GK army would be packing like 6 points maximum with new No Prisoners.
This objective is going to be primarily helpful against armies that spam 5-8pts per wound models, not actual elite armies that tend to pay 12-15pts per wound. Hordes of Orks, Drukhari Hellions/Reavers/Courts of the Archon, etc.
My army gives up 9VP on abhore on avarge. More vs something like DE, who don't even have to drop options like harlequins, because they don run psykers on their own.
I am not sure what a hyper elite GK army is even if you run 1 unit of troops and 3 units of paladins you would still be running 3 characters and apothecaries, in that lists only the servitors are not psykers. And the reason argument , that it makes sense for something to happen regarding GK rules, is something I will trust when I can see it in print. a 20pts strike or 30+pts termintors doesn't make sense at all, yet here we are closing on to a year of 9th.
And while I do think about GK, there are other elite armies that wouldn't want to see DE get another easy to do secondary. Custodes for example or armies running a ton of termintors.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quasistellar wrote: I'm a bit concerned that Titan Hunter (I forget the GT pack name) wasn't addressed in the article.
No Prisoners looks like it has promise but we'll see. As I said before I don't think there needs to be a specific "anti-elite" secondary, but it is nice to be able to count those wounds killed towards something.
This type of thing might be good against things like Death Guard poxwalkers + terminators, for instance. It's something, at least.
But it litteraly helps one type of army DE and the different eldar soups. And neither of those need more help with winning or doing easy secondaries.
What I would like to see is the change to the secondary that lets DE score for free on turn 1, practicaly no army is able to move on to them turn 1, and if they do, then DE just wipe them out specially if someone gets greedy and tries to go for three quarters instead of two.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 17:37:36
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/25 17:52:44
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Didn't buy last CA not going to buy this one either. Its a complete waste of money, paper and ink. Its going to be redundant and obsolete within a few months as new codex come out with new FAQs, points and faction-based secondaries. I guess this is just another kick in the teeth of the faction that didn't get a codex/ weapons upgrade..
The fact they still have the audacity to charge for "fixes" and people are willingly giving them money is insane.. This should be a free pdf/ FAQ.
I'll allow it if it updated the app.
So I wonder, if you are an app user, you will HAVE to pay for this in order to use up-to-date points?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 17:54:19
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
best part about the article is the first image that gets people excited that maybe chaos marines are getting addressed..........GW "hahaha, get out of here, you're drunk, we're just emphasizing those Imperial Fists at the bottom and how their 2W will now affect a secondary".
2021/05/25 18:07:31
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.
I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.
I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.
I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.
As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.
I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.
If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?
Sadly, to answer your first line, it seems so. Salty and edgy is in. More missions is fun, bring it on I say!
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2021/05/25 18:19:39
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.
I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.
I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.
I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.
As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.
I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.
If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?
Sadly, to answer your first line, it seems so. Salty and edgy is in. More missions is fun, bring it on I say!
Hate is a strong word. Disappointment better describes the situation.
Most people have not had time to adjust their lists since the last points update. Not sure why another one is coming out so soon.
The changes to Secondaries might be too much. From what I already know, I can easily max out about 4 of them every game. Getting the sense this is true for other armies, what's the point of Secondaries if everyone's running away with them every game?
On top of that, the cover art. That Primaris' helmet looks off. Thought I was looking at a Primaris Fire Warrior for a second. If GW is going to pick my pocket, they can at least delight my eyes.
The article doesn't even say there are new missions, and in fact it has Brandt saying the "focus" is on secondaries, not new missions. They may well be the same missions reprinted with some very minor tweaks.
2021/05/25 18:20:45
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.
I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.
I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.
I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.
As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.
I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.
If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?
Sadly, to answer your first line, it seems so. Salty and edgy is in. More missions is fun, bring it on I say!
to add on to that first point, no, people don't hate playing 40K. They do hate, however, this constant pay to play format that GW encompasses. I already don't like how quickly books are invalidated (of course that depends on your gaming situation), but I'd rather spend money on models, not continued publications to fix the issues they create.
2021/05/25 18:24:23
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I have liked the GT pack from the start, the book is very compact and allow easy check on alot of things.
I think they will fix some of the unusable secondaries and that will make the game more interesting.
Leds hope they nerf secondaries like "we stand", "outs of moment,"stubborn defiance".. all secondaries that benefit passive gameplay.
I don`t expect anything from the points since prev CA, disappointments and nerf on units that don`t longer need it.
2021/05/25 18:56:20
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Argive wrote: Didn't buy last CA not going to buy this one either. Its a complete waste of money, paper and ink.
Its going to be redundant and obsolete within a few months as new codex come out with new FAQs, points and faction-based secondaries. I guess this is just another kick in the teeth of the faction that didn't get a codex/ weapons upgrade..
The fact they still have the audacity to charge for "fixes" and people are willingly giving them money is insane.. This should be a free pdf/ FAQ.
I'll allow it if it updated the app.
So I wonder, if you are an app user, you will HAVE to pay for this in order to use up-to-date points?
You don't get this for points. The points are in essence freebie you get alongside real meat(which you need for tournaments and random pickup games)
Also easier to carry than the brick.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 18:56:58
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/05/25 19:38:24
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Tyel wrote:I'm afraid I'm a fan of the modifiers being capped like now. I feel stacking modifiers is not a box that need's to be reopened.
Intuitively it does perhaps seem silly that a guy carrying a heavy weapon can jog along and then shoot at super-sneaky unit through a forest at no more penalty than shooting a regular unit in the open - but I think negatives to hit were just awful for the game. So I prefer the gameyness over the verisimilitude.
The counter argument is that minuses to hit at some of the best counters to "everything dies by the close of turn 3" - but yeah. They don't hit all armies equally and for those poor suffering BS4+ armies its just obnoxious.
You're right, they don't hit all armies equally. The current rules of capping negative modifiers to hit at -1 while making "6s always hit" hurts lower BS/WS armies more than those with better BS/WS. Going from hitting on 2s to 3s is a 20% drop in efficiency, 3s to 4s is 25%, 4s to 5s is 33%, and 5s to 6s is 50%. Flip it around, keep 6s always hit, but allow "self inflicted" penalties to stack with defensive penalties, which would still be capped at -1 with a cap of total penalties of -3 and you get: hitting on 2s going to 5s - 60% drop in efficiency, 3s to 6s - 75% drop, 4s to 6s - 66% drop, 5s to 6s - 50%. This would hit more "elite" factions harder than the less elite, with the exception of anything with WS/BS 2. Would that be good? That's the question.
Quasistellar wrote: I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.
Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.
I agree, part of the reason why I don't think such a secondary should exist is the question why have secondaries in the first place? My answer to that question is that it's a good way to punish people for spamming similar units, playing against 100% horde or 100% vehicle can be an unfun experience unless you have 70% anti-horde or 70% anti-vehicle and if you have 100% anti-horde or anti-vehicle it will also be unfun because it will be too easy. Heavy infantry get countered by anti-infantry and anti-horde, there is no feels-bad in terms of wasting certain weapon profiles on them. There is no value in spamming them unless they simply happen to be undercosted relative to vehicle or horde units in your faction and the answer to that question is nerfing those units on pts. But gangbusters nerfs units that don't need nerfs, like Paladins, Wraithblades and Ogryn.
One possibility that wouldn't impact things too much would be counting wounds caused to non-vehicle non-monster units instead of models killed +9 for each vehicle/monster for the Thin Their Ranks secondary objective. Aaaand my suggestion is already in the game, well that was fast.
I think it's a great way to get at stuff like hyper rezzing DA and attack bikes who have few angles you can interact with.
Agreed, I like these changes.
Daedalus81 wrote:Now watch people scramble to prevent W2 on CSM.
Not from this heretic.
2021/05/25 19:46:40
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Xenomancers wrote: Kinda sad that literally the most important step for balance is treated in an "on the fly" manner.
That's not what that means. You should know that by now.
I am confused. You literally said this is done on the fly and I agree with you on that. Now it seems you suggesting they put serious time into this? All the while they will ignore 85% of the models in every army.
I mean that they don't need it sent to print months in advance.
Argive wrote: Didn't buy last CA not going to buy this one either. Its a complete waste of money, paper and ink.
Its going to be redundant and obsolete within a few months as new codex come out with new FAQs, points and faction-based secondaries. I guess this is just another kick in the teeth of the faction that didn't get a codex/ weapons upgrade..
The fact they still have the audacity to charge for "fixes" and people are willingly giving them money is insane.. This should be a free pdf/ FAQ.
I'll allow it if it updated the app.
So I wonder, if you are an app user, you will HAVE to pay for this in order to use up-to-date points?
You don't get this for points. The points are in essence freebie you get alongside real meat(which you need for tournaments and random pickup games)
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
It hasn't (Indomitus has only been out about 10 months, let alone the real launch and the 2020 CA). And even if it had, the last update was Feb. I'd definitely call 3 months 'so soon.'
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/05/25 22:17:29
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I don't think the complaint is they're making changes to the flawed original product they put out last year, I think the complaint is they're charging everybody again for them.
2021/05/26 00:59:14
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
alextroy wrote: Considering all the people demanding changes to Codex Drukhari after a month, I can't imagine how 3 months for a balance revision is too soon
More concerned about my Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Death Guard, Chaos Daemons, Guard and CSM armies.
With the lockdowns, haven't played a game of 9th. Having to update lists for a game I'm prevented from playing doesn't sit well.
Doesn't matter if the points go up or down. It's the fact I've never gotten to try what's there.
Eldar- 4436 pts
