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yukishiro1 wrote:
It looks to me like GK and TSons were supposed to come out after sisters but before Orks, but they switched the order a while back. It would be downright bizarre for them to have been doing previews for Orks for almost a month now, while doing none for GK or TSons, only to then release GK and TSons before Orks.

Some people think that we will be getting the beastsnagga box, then TS/GK and then the actual codex release.

Just found out about the best thing in this book. If you have a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, and it's from the same faction as your Warlord, it's now 1CP instead of 3CP. 13 barrels of Hell and 302 tons of ancient psychotic ceramite coming at ya!

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Just found out about the best thing in this book. If you have a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, and it's from the same faction as your Warlord, it's now 1CP instead of 3CP. 13 barrels of Hell and 302 tons of ancient psychotic ceramite coming at ya!

I’m painting my Monolith!

 AduroT wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Just found out about the best thing in this book. If you have a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, and it's from the same faction as your Warlord, it's now 1CP instead of 3CP. 13 barrels of Hell and 302 tons of ancient psychotic ceramite coming at ya!

I’m painting my Monolith!

I'm actually gonna buy one now!

I know quite a few people looking to sell three currently

I was tempted by a monolith anyway because, well, just look at it. This makes the purchase all the more probable.

Gonna plan a new CSM list based on my Lord Of Skulls! I don't care if its uncompetitive!

It will now cost you 2CP less to take a monolith that can barely actually move on the table because it lacks fly and its movement characteristic is lower than its footprint!

The Monolith needs to go back to HS.

And be able to fly.

Why in the Silent King's name did they make that idiotic change...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


And be able to fly.

Why in the Silent King's name did they make that idiotic change...

It's one of those incredible examples of a designer who clearly just didn't understand how their own game plays in the most basic of ways, and a "playtesting" program that is fundamentally broken if it allows something like that to make it into print. The fact that they haven't changed it in a year just shows a lack of caring on top of that.

yukishiro1 wrote:
It will now cost you 2CP less to take a monolith that can barely actually move on the table because it lacks fly and its movement characteristic is lower than its footprint!

I understood it was 6×6, and moves 8, so it moves 2 more than it's footprint. Is that incorrect? It also has native deep strike. Agreed, taking FLY away was bad, especially since the big Aeldari grav tanks and the Astraeus got to keep it, but is it really that bad? Even if it costs 2CP less now?

When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

Right, 6 S8 AP-3, D3 auto-hitting attacks is WAY better than what those aforementioned tanks can do in melee. So do you think this will make the Monolith more useful? 1CP is a lot better than 3CP. Going from costing 4CP to 2CP is definitely a big boost for my LoWs. Still annoying that it's twice the price of others though Martial Legacy *spits*

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

FLY doesn't work in the charge phase on terrain.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It will now cost you 2CP less to take a monolith that can barely actually move on the table because it lacks fly and its movement characteristic is lower than its footprint!

I understood it was 6×6, and moves 8, so it moves 2 more than it's footprint. Is that incorrect? It also has native deep strike. Agreed, taking FLY away was bad, especially since the big Aeldari grav tanks and the Astraeus got to keep it, but is it really that bad? Even if it costs 2CP less now?

Yes, but the way terrain works is you have to pay movement up and down if it's over 1"...which conveniently adds up to 8". When you add in the fact that no terrain is monomolecularly thin, it means a monolith literally cannot move over a fence taller than 1". It bumps up against it and just sits there all game trying to get over it. And that's even before it degrades and moves even slower.

There are huge parts of the board the model just simply cannot traverse. Fences, any corridors between terrain less than 6" square, etc etc.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

Right, 6 S8 AP-3, D3 auto-hitting attacks is WAY better than what those aforementioned tanks can do in melee. So do you think this will make the Monolith more useful? 1CP is a lot better than 3CP. Going from costing 4CP to 2CP is definitely a big boost for my LoWs. Still annoying that it's twice the price of others though Martial Legacy *spits*

I did feel CP starved. I'm noodling a list right now, actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

FLY doesn't work in the charge phase on terrain.

Right - sorry - I should say moving over the building then charging instead of heaving to go around. That aside a Monolith jumping a building and then dropping a blob up to an inch away would be quite dirty.

It's easy enough to move block so I won't claim it is broken, but there are potentially strong interactions.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It will now cost you 2CP less to take a monolith that can barely actually move on the table because it lacks fly and its movement characteristic is lower than its footprint!

I understood it was 6×6, and moves 8, so it moves 2 more than it's footprint. Is that incorrect? It also has native deep strike. Agreed, taking FLY away was bad, especially since the big Aeldari grav tanks and the Astraeus got to keep it, but is it really that bad? Even if it costs 2CP less now?

Yes, but the way terrain works is you have to pay movement up and down if it's over 1"...which conveniently adds up to 8". When you add in the fact that no terrain is monomolecularly thin, it means a monolith literally cannot move over a fence taller than 1". It bumps up against it and just sits there all game trying to get over it. And that's even before it degrades and moves even slower.

There are huge parts of the board the model just simply cannot traverse. Fences, any corridors between terrain less than 6" square, etc etc.

Maybe that's why gw added a rule that allows TITANIC units to ignore Difficult Ground up to 3 in height when moving in yesterday's FAQ. Just mark those barricades and such as Difficult Ground. Fixed. As for tight corridors, that's just part of using a big model. You learn to avoid those, just like things like 300+ ton tanks and giant floating ziggurats would in real life. Or you pay for it.

Edit: Ok, that doesn't exactly work. But you DO ignore anything 1 or less in height.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
When I used a Monolith on TTS ( about 10 games ) it was pretty formidable.

I can see why it doesn't have fly, because dropping in and then charging over buildings would have been quite strong given its abilities.

Right, 6 S8 AP-3, D3 auto-hitting attacks is WAY better than what those aforementioned tanks can do in melee. So do you think this will make the Monolith more useful? 1CP is a lot better than 3CP. Going from costing 4CP to 2CP is definitely a big boost for my LoWs. Still annoying that it's twice the price of others though Martial Legacy *spits*

I did feel CP starved. I'm noodling a list right now, actually.

No kidding. Try it when the LoW costs 1CP extra, as do all of your dreadnoughts and other tanks. And you play CSM.

My lists probably won't change much, but they'll have more resources.

Maybe GW should have had a distinction between things that fly and things that hover...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe GW should have had a distinction between things that fly and things that hover...

I can't see that taking off.

Not sure if you're making a joke or not...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not sure if you're making a joke or not...

Appropriate given the subject, no?

Still not sure.

And if not a joke, then explain why it wouldn't work.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe GW should have had a distinction between things that fly and things that hover...

Genuinely curious, how would you envision such a change?

IF uou fly fast, you are harder to destroy, but are more limited in what and where you can transport stuff, what you can shot at etc

Hover stuff is just a regular tank that ignores some forms of terrain, but not all. No extra resiliance from being 40cm above ground.

Hover - ignore the difficult ground trait, can move over terrain pieces lower than 2" tall without losing any movement.

Fly - ignore all terrain, move over any terrain without losing any movement

Aircraft - as now.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Hover - ignore the difficult ground trait, can move over terrain pieces lower than 2" tall without losing any movement.

Fly - ignore all terrain, move over any terrain without losing any movement

Aircraft - as now.

Why does Hover need to exist? Why can't Monoliths just FLY?

 the_scotsman wrote:
Hover - ignore the difficult ground trait, can move over terrain pieces lower than 2" tall without losing any movement.

Fly - ignore all terrain, move over any terrain without losing any movement

Aircraft - as now.

That would work. Or, everyone could just try to make sure their barricades and such were 1 or lower when they put their terrain together.

 vict0988 wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
Hover - ignore the difficult ground trait, can move over terrain pieces lower than 2" tall without losing any movement.

Fly - ignore all terrain, move over any terrain without losing any movement

Aircraft - as now.

Why does Hover need to exist? Why can't Monoliths just FLY?

Because leapfrogging buildings with a strong model might be a bit much

Yes, we have Magnus, but depending on the opponent he's doing 10 mortal wounds - the monolith will do a similar amount of damage or more depending on the target unless there is a good Gateway target. Their melee is about the same with the exception that Magnus wounds everything on a 2. Slap on a chronomancer and the monolith is about the same cost with better toughness, save, a bunch more wounds, dumps a bunch of models in the opponent's face, and deepstrikes.

It definitely has a hard time getting around on some tables, but again - deepstrike is an option. I feel like it would be better served by a middle ground ignore stuff 2" or less like mentioned above.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
Hover - ignore the difficult ground trait, can move over terrain pieces lower than 2" tall without losing any movement.

Fly - ignore all terrain, move over any terrain without losing any movement

Aircraft - as now.

Why does Hover need to exist? Why can't Monoliths just FLY?

Because leapfrogging buildings with a strong model might be a bit much

Yes, we have Magnus, but depending on the opponent he's doing 10 mortal wounds - the monolith will do a similar amount of damage or more depending on the target unless there is a good Gateway target. Their melee is about the same with the exception that Magnus wounds everything on a 2. Slap on a chronomancer and the monolith is about the same cost with better toughness, save, a bunch more wounds, dumps a bunch of models in the opponent's face, and deepstrikes.

It definitely has a hard time getting around on some tables, but again - deepstrike is an option. I feel like it would be better served by a middle ground ignore stuff 2" or less like mentioned above.

Magnus has Movement 16 and is 5" long
Monoliths have Movement 6 and are 6" long

Even with FLY Monoliths cannot hop over a building, they cannot even hop over a 1,5" tall fence without advancing, now that they don't have FLY they need a 4" advance to make it over a 1,5" fence like GW's barricades that were popular in 7th. At best Monoliths can hop on top of a building and sit there and hop down next turn, Magnus hops over and charges turn 1.

The drop in CP is nice for SHA. However - the detachment still doesn't get army traits. So it is still pretty bad. I'd rather spend the 3 CP and get freaking traits on the SH.