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 Jidmah wrote:

Not more swingy than half the other rules in the game. Ever killed a raider and saw how 10 bloodbrides and a succubus died on their way out?

Bit of a diffrent angle there.
The stratagem basically is in itself swingy preciscly in a far more annoying manner, it might do nothing, might do way to many MW. ( just bad design personally, random can be fun, but randumb? and this has the potential for randumb...)

Otoh having a raider explode is, well, expected (albeit consdiering stuff like sabotaged armory exist....) assuming a normal match it's expected that a detonation may destroy the contents wholesale if unluky, which was even somewhat consistent with past iterations of explode... This here is just , well , one unit now does MW for no apparant reason but stratagem.
Kinda feels disjointed comparatively if you get thought process.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they plan on walking them across the board without them being butchered by shooting.

Then how they plan on getting every single model in to combat.


The unit could do 20 mortal wounds.
If its not going to be able to meet the conditions for it to work, its useless.
Its literally a hail Mary strat when all else fails and if the situation arises.

This thread should probably have been closed about 6 pages ago...

 Jidmah wrote:

The benefit of of allowing the stratagem to deal more than 3 MW is to punish an opponent who made such a stupid move.

Thank you for giving a reason. Should other Stratagems be changed to increase the punishment of misplays? 5 mortal wounds to a CHARACTER for 1CP if you get within 1" of a C'tan with at the end of the charge phase. Would that be good game design? How about giving each unit three such Stratagems? Now you have to know which units can go against which units or they will be obliterated for 10 MW for 2CP because they fill two keywords.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not more swingy than half the other rules in the game. Ever killed a raider and saw how 10 bloodbrides and a succubus died on their way out?

Bit of a diffrent angle there.
The stratagem basically is in itself swingy preciscly in a far more annoying manner, it might do nothing, might do way to many MW. ( just bad design personally, random can be fun, but randumb? and this has the potential for randumb...)

Otoh having a raider explode is, well, expected (albeit consdiering stuff like sabotaged armory exist....) assuming a normal match it's expected that a detonation may destroy the contents wholesale if unluky, which was even somewhat consistent with past iterations of explode... This here is just , well , one unit now does MW for no apparant reason but stratagem.
Kinda feels disjointed comparatively if you get thought process.

That's the whole point of this thread though. It only feels like that if you assume that poxwalkers actually had a way to appear as 20 strong unit somewhere and charge into their preferred target, similar to bloodletters or boyz with da jump/green tide.

They... just don't do that. Either they are sitting on objectives spreading the sickness (killing d3 of themselves in the process) or wobbling at 4"+d6 towards another one. You also can't spam them with impunity, as you have to bring one unit of plague marines or terminators for every unit of poxwalkers you field.
Usually your opponent shoots them with blast weapons they don't need otherwise, as well with excess bolters and other small arms fire - because they are 20 objective secured models, most opponents have an active interest in not having them stuck to whatever durable unit is defending an objective. Due to their T4, 7+/6+++ defensive profile shooting those things at them even makes sense, because what else is an S3-4 weapon going to shoot in a DG army? Terminators? Plague Marines? Daemon Engines?
Normally a melee unit charges and shreds the poxwalkers (18 boyz with no buffs whatsoever kill 20 poxwalkers, 9 scarboyz if Thrakka is nearby)

I guess you could potentially pay 1CP to put them into strategic reserves, but since this is limited to 6" from the board edge in T3 and their only way of making charges more reliable are command re-rolls, why would you do that? You might as well take those 3CP and trigger a bunch of other DG stratagems that do mortal wounds more reliably.
It's also worth noticing that DG's only way to react to things is their smattering of situational 1CP/2CP stratagems - they move very slowly, they don't shoot a lot and have short ranges. So you don't want to spend

So, in order for this stratagem to unfolds its full potential and have the poxwalkers are in combat, almost unwounded and not fighting second, your opponent would have to ignore them for two or more rounds, put something valuable in their way and let them get the charge instead of moving away. Which really means that an opponent willingly let that happen for some reason, no different from simply not moving out of an orbital bombardment.

In actual games it's essentially a fight deterrent against elite units that doubles up as Tzeentch’s Firestorm when you suicide the poxwalkers.

Edit: One more thing - this stratagem actually was added with War of the Spider. It's so "problematic" that people haven't noticed until now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

What is the benefit of allowing the Stratagem to deal more than 3MW? Saving ink or the rainforest? Maybe just print fewer Stratagems.

The benefit of of allowing the stratagem to deal more than 3 MW is to punish an opponent who made such a stupid move.

Thank you for giving a reason. Should other Stratagems be changed to increase the punishment of misplays? 5 mortal wounds to a CHARACTER for 1CP if you get within 1" of a C'tan with at the end of the charge phase. Would that be good game design? How about giving each unit three such Stratagems? Now you have to know which units can go against which units or they will be obliterated for 10 MW for 2CP because they fill two keywords.

1. Fix your quotes.
2. Have you read the nightbringer's datasheet? He does an average of 17+ damage in combat that - unlike mortal wounds - can't be prevented by anything. Should that be limited to 3 damage as well?
3. And yes, DG's stratagems punish you if you, the opponent, create specific situations. That's their thing.
4. You are literally complaining about having to know your opponent's rules

 Jidmah wrote:
2. Have you read the nightbringer's datasheet? He does an average of 17+ damage in combat that - unlike mortal wounds - can't be prevented by anything. Should that be limited to 3 damage as well?
3. And yes, DG's stratagems punish you if you, the opponent, create specific situations. That's their thing.
4. You are literally complaining about having to know your opponent's rules

2. That's not a Stratagem used to make a hundred point relatively durable chaff unit hit like a 250 point durable unit for 1CP, it's a 370 point unit that can be killed by 15 Intercessors.
3. Since when did DG become the gotcha/trap army?
4. Yes, having to know 300 Stratagems or lose is bad game design, in my opinion. You already have to know a dozen army wide rules, etc, etc.

You also failed to answer the question, do you want more powerful niche MW Stratagems?

I see. So you are just one of those people who hate all stratagems. Continue on, we have nothing to talk about.

Edit: I realize this might sound like snark, but it's not. Not liking stratagems is something perfectly ok to do, and many dakkanauts have explained why they dislike the idea. I do not agree, but that's just a matter of taste. There is no right or wrong when it comes to taste.

From a competitive viewpoint there is just nothing wrong with mutant strain which is a solid, but not powerful stratagem at best.

 vict0988 wrote:
6 mortal wounds is one of the largest numbers of mortal wounds any unit can cause in a phase in all of 40k. Bringing in AOS does nothing, I'm sure it's a gak game, saying 20 mortal wounds is a small thing does not convince me otherwise

Lol, so you think 6 random mortal wounds is a big deal in 40k and expect me to think your opinion about AoS means anything?

You don't even know the game you do play, lol. Why don't you try playing a few games, figuring out how at least 40k works, before you comment on other wargames? It would make you look like less of an idiot.

2. That's not a Stratagem used to make a hundred point relatively durable chaff unit hit like a 250 point durable unit for 1CP, it's a 370 point unit that can be killed by 15 Intercessors.
3. Since when did DG become the gotcha/trap army?
4. Yes, having to know 300 Stratagems or lose is bad game design, in my opinion. You already have to know a dozen army wide rules.

2. The C'Tan is going to make its points much easier back than poxwalker as well as provide some oomph to a Necron force. Poxwalkers at best sit ugly on an objective and hopes that it can maybe munch on some flesh before being mowed off the table.
3. You must be new here. DG had a paltry selection of stratagems in early 8th but even then you had the grenade combo, which is in itself a gotcha moment if you allowed it to happen. Please don't apply what you think personally another person's army should feel like.
4. Then modern 40k is not for you. It is very apparent that this is the way forward for GW and I doubt it is going to change.

Don't pox walkers make their points up by the fact that they are ultra cheap, and allow the DG player to not be forced to take the over costed plague marines. By virtue of their cost, they automaticly pay their codex. If they also do anything else it is just a bonus.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
vict0988, you play necrons. I get it. I have a necron army too. You probably think most of the necron strategems were lackluster and you want to lower ALL strattegems to necrons level.

But that is not the direction that GW is going towards. Especially not when you look at what has come out in Drukhari and Admech. They are making strategems stronger, not weaker. This is the trend.

Not the best take. It is way easier to use the Mephrit strat that it is this one.

Now there is the Mars one, which does seem a tad out of line. A full 20 man shooting a non-vehicle can't usually get to 6 and then the remaining shots are S3 AP0.

160 points of Vanguard shooting marines does --

60 * .167 * .333 = 3.3 // auto-wound
60 * .5 * .167 = 5 // mortal wounds
60 * .5 * .333 * .333 = 3.3 // regular

11.6 in total

And 156 points of Warriors ( 12 ) does --

24 * .666 * .167 = 2.7
24 * .666 * .666 * .666 = 7.1 ( 8.9 if they're under half )

9.8 in total

Warriors are harder to put down and can be +1 to hit all game. Skitarii have once per game doctrinas similar to Protocols. Mars Radium Skitarii don't get much out of Canticles except Shroudpsalm.

It isn't horribly out of whack. I would expect some Admech stuff to get tweaked later on. I'm also sure someone will come along and tell me a better setup, which makes this wrong.

Karol wrote:
Don't pox walkers make their points up by the fact that they are ultra cheap, and allow the DG player to not be forced to take the over costed plague marines. By virtue of their cost, they automaticly pay their codex. If they also do anything else it is just a bonus.

No, thats one of the big changes in the 9th edition codex. You need at least one unit of Bubonic astartes per unit of poxwalker or cultists

So the 2-3 units of termintors they normaly run, and the shrouds bubonic astarter too?

Karol wrote:
So the 2-3 units of termintors they normaly run, and the shrouds bubonic astarter too?

BUBONIC ASTARTES CORE INFANTRY is the requirement.

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not more swingy than half the other rules in the game. Ever killed a raider and saw how 10 bloodbrides and a succubus died on their way out?

Bit of a diffrent angle there.
The stratagem basically is in itself swingy preciscly in a far more annoying manner, it might do nothing, might do way to many MW. ( just bad design personally, random can be fun, but randumb? and this has the potential for randumb...)

Otoh having a raider explode is, well, expected (albeit consdiering stuff like sabotaged armory exist....) assuming a normal match it's expected that a detonation may destroy the contents wholesale if unluky, which was even somewhat consistent with past iterations of explode... This here is just , well , one unit now does MW for no apparant reason but stratagem.
Kinda feels disjointed comparatively if you get thought process.

That's the whole point of this thread though. It only feels like that if you assume that poxwalkers actually had a way to appear as 20 strong unit somewhere and charge into their preferred target, similar to bloodletters or boyz with da jump/green tide.

They... just don't do that. Either they are sitting on objectives spreading the sickness (killing d3 of themselves in the process) or wobbling at 4"+d6 towards another one. You also can't spam them with impunity, as you have to bring one unit of plague marines or terminators for every unit of poxwalkers you field.
Usually your opponent shoots them with blast weapons they don't need otherwise, as well with excess bolters and other small arms fire - because they are 20 objective secured models, most opponents have an active interest in not having them stuck to whatever durable unit is defending an objective. Due to their T4, 7+/6+++ defensive profile shooting those things at them even makes sense, because what else is an S3-4 weapon going to shoot in a DG army? Terminators? Plague Marines? Daemon Engines?
Normally a melee unit charges and shreds the poxwalkers (18 boyz with no buffs whatsoever kill 20 poxwalkers, 9 scarboyz if Thrakka is nearby)

I guess you could potentially pay 1CP to put them into strategic reserves, but since this is limited to 6" from the board edge in T3 and their only way of making charges more reliable are command re-rolls, why would you do that? You might as well take those 3CP and trigger a bunch of other DG stratagems that do mortal wounds more reliably.
It's also worth noticing that DG's only way to react to things is their smattering of situational 1CP/2CP stratagems - they move very slowly, they don't shoot a lot and have short ranges. So you don't want to spend

So, in order for this stratagem to unfolds its full potential and have the poxwalkers are in combat, almost unwounded and not fighting second, your opponent would have to ignore them for two or more rounds, put something valuable in their way and let them get the charge instead of moving away. Which really means that an opponent willingly let that happen for some reason, no different from simply not moving out of an orbital bombardment.

In actual games it's essentially a fight deterrent against elite units that doubles up as Tzeentch’s Firestorm when you suicide the poxwalkers.

Edit: One more thing - this stratagem actually was added with War of the Spider. It's so "problematic" that people haven't noticed until now.

Why do you think i didn't state it was problematic? it's problematic in a terrible bad design way, but that is GW in a nutshell, because GW gonna GW. There's far worse stuff out there which i even brought up.
Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

What unit upgrades? Poxwalkers haven't really existed for that long and the reason there aren't upgrades on Poxwalkers is because they are literally mindless zombies that are infected. The stratagem actually reflects rather well the pestilence that grows within them and bursts out to kill enemy troops(or the poxwalker thanks to a very bad and virulent strain).

Interesting note: Poxwalkers are 1 point cheaper from the first codex in 8th compared to the first codex in 9th and even then have received several boosts on top of that. It basically took a lot of boosting to make them viable. Even then they are not exactly meta-shaking units.

Karol wrote:
Don't pox walkers make their points up by the fact that they are ultra cheap, and allow the DG player to not be forced to take the over costed plague marines. By virtue of their cost, they automaticly pay their codex. If they also do anything else it is just a bonus.

No.

Jackal90 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they plan on walking them across the board without them being butchered by shooting.

Then how they plan on getting every single model in to combat.

Yeah, because demons, orks, khornate CSM, canoptek/melee necrons, black templar/white scar/blood angels/space wolf SM (all of which have signature melee units with next to no shooting), BR repentia/penitent spam sisters, GSC/tyranid melee armies don't exist, eh? All of them bring very little shooting if they focus on melee components, or shooting that is terrible at handling chaff (because, guess what, they planned to handle it with melee) and the fact cheap, easily spammable unit counters all of the above with trivial stratagem is kind of bad rules writing. No army should be punished for doing the one thing is was made for.

And how they will get models in combat? Last time I checked, melee works both ways, and if that was opponents battle plan, they must bring all his models into melee range... Which funnily means opponent models get to do the same at the same time. Funny that.

 Irbis wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they plan on walking them across the board without them being butchered by shooting.

Then how they plan on getting every single model in to combat.

Yeah, because demons, orks, khornate CSM, canoptek/melee necrons, black templar/white scar/blood angels/space wolf SM (all of which have signature melee units with next to no shooting), BR repentia/penitent spam sisters, GSC/tyranid melee armies don't exist, eh? All of them bring very little shooting if they focus on melee components, or shooting that is terrible at handling chaff (because, guess what, they planned to handle it with melee) and the fact cheap, easily spammable unit counters all of the above with trivial stratagem is kind of bad rules writing. No army should be punished for doing the one thing is was made for.

And how they will get models in combat? Last time I checked, melee works both ways, and if that was opponents battle plan, they must bring all his models into melee range... Which funnily means opponent models get to do the same at the same time. Funny that.

Just because you have a melee-centric army doesnt mean you shouldnt bring any shooting. And guess what, your melee specialist squads will be hitting the poxwalkers first, lowering their MW output

Not Online!!! wrote:
Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

Why would I want that? Poxwalkers are a very versatile unit are precisely because of their two stratagems. They are good enough to field them, but you don't want to spam or rely too heavily on them because you can use each stratagem only once and CP are limited.

Upgrades only ever work well for things that add damage, mobility or durability. Upgrade also rarely, if ever, provide players with additional choices to make. Most DG stratagems provide flexibility and utility, something that has traditionally never worked well as upgrades that you have to buy before the game.

No upgrade would be as interesting as having mutant strain and the dead walk again.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

What unit upgrades? Poxwalkers haven't really existed for that long and the reason there aren't upgrades on Poxwalkers is because they are literally mindless zombies that are infected. The stratagem actually reflects rather well the pestilence that grows within them and bursts out to kill enemy troops(or the poxwalker thanks to a very bad and virulent strain).

Interesting note: Poxwalkers are 1 point cheaper from the first codex in 8th compared to the first codex in 9th and even then have received several boosts on top of that. It basically took a lot of boosting to make them viable. Even then they are not exactly meta-shaking units.

Considering poxwalkers are just copyrightable name for Plague zombies, yes, there were older editions which allowed you to be dangerous with them

 Irbis wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they plan on walking them across the board without them being butchered by shooting.

Then how they plan on getting every single model in to combat.

Yeah, because demons, orks, khornate CSM, canoptek/melee necrons, black templar/white scar/blood angels/space wolf SM (all of which have signature melee units with next to no shooting), BR repentia/penitent spam sisters, GSC/tyranid melee armies don't exist, eh? All of them bring very little shooting if they focus on melee components, or shooting that is terrible at handling chaff (because, guess what, they planned to handle it with melee) and the fact cheap, easily spammable unit counters all of the above with trivial stratagem is kind of bad rules writing. No army should be punished for doing the one thing is was made for.

And how they will get models in combat? Last time I checked, melee works both ways, and if that was opponents battle plan, they must bring all his models into melee range... Which funnily means opponent models get to do the same at the same time. Funny that.

Quite a few of the units you mentioned have shooting even if it is not artillery fire. I mean, ignore shooting units in your armies for your fluffy list but then don't complain that your army can't handle the game in general. I think the only army worth mentioning here is Daemons that does not have any shooting except maybe some Tzeentch stuff(not familiar with Daemons in 40k).

Even then you will still have the initiative if you charge because the rulebook states that you activate charging units before defending units with the interrupt stratagem being the only one allowing an enemy to hit second before the rest of the charging units and that one costs 2 CP. The only time that might not apply is when facing the Foul Blightspawn, but you can play around him so you can still get your first hit and obliterate the poxwalker unit. Even taking down half the poxwalker unit eliminates a good portion of any potential MW.

Also good to remember that a unit can only pile 3 inches to the closest enemy model so you can effectively limit the amount of potential MW by flanking on two fronts the poxwalker squad.

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

Why would I want that? Poxwalkers are a very versatile unit are precisely because of their two stratagems. They are good enough to field them, but you don't want to spam or rely too heavily on them because you can use each stratagem only once and CP are limited.

Upgrades only ever work well for things that add damage, mobility or durability. Upgrade also rarely, if ever, provide players with additional choices to make. Most DG stratagems provide flexibility and utility, something that has traditionally never worked well as upgrades that you have to buy before the game.

No upgrade would be as interesting as having mutant strain and the dead walk again.

And this is preciscly the reason why i hate stratagems, suddendly half your army isn't equal anymore.
Also lol flexibility to recycle and damage being flexible and not handleable via upgrades. Counter point, you could allow Poxes or plague zombies to recycle more when killing in melee and you could make them more killy via a varying upgrade for specific plague strains...

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

What unit upgrades? Poxwalkers haven't really existed for that long and the reason there aren't upgrades on Poxwalkers is because they are literally mindless zombies that are infected. The stratagem actually reflects rather well the pestilence that grows within them and bursts out to kill enemy troops(or the poxwalker thanks to a very bad and virulent strain).

Interesting note: Poxwalkers are 1 point cheaper from the first codex in 8th compared to the first codex in 9th and even then have received several boosts on top of that. It basically took a lot of boosting to make them viable. Even then they are not exactly meta-shaking units.

Considering poxwalkers are just copyrightable name for Plague zombies, yes, there were older editions which allowed you to be dangerous with them

You talking about the ones in Necromunda 1996? Isn't that reaching a bit far and wrong game? There was also just the Typhus version of cultists which btw are still in the game under the name cultists(sans any special Typhus bonuses).

On a fun note, if we could have a deal that this stratagem gets removed and Poxwalkers get 8-9" inch move instead I'd be down for it.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

What unit upgrades? Poxwalkers haven't really existed for that long and the reason there aren't upgrades on Poxwalkers is because they are literally mindless zombies that are infected. The stratagem actually reflects rather well the pestilence that grows within them and bursts out to kill enemy troops(or the poxwalker thanks to a very bad and virulent strain).

Interesting note: Poxwalkers are 1 point cheaper from the first codex in 8th compared to the first codex in 9th and even then have received several boosts on top of that. It basically took a lot of boosting to make them viable. Even then they are not exactly meta-shaking units.

Considering poxwalkers are just copyrightable name for Plague zombies, yes, there were older editions which allowed you to be dangerous with them

You talking about the ones in Necromunda 1996? Isn't that reaching a bit far and wrong game? There was also just the Typhus version of cultists which btw are still in the game under the name cultists(sans any special Typhus bonuses).

On a fun note, if we could have a deal that this stratagem gets removed and Poxwalkers get 8-9" inch move instead I'd be down for it.

no i mean plague zombies. Not even typhus one

 Irbis wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they plan on walking them across the board without them being butchered by shooting.

Then how they plan on getting every single model in to combat.

Yeah, because demons, orks, khornate CSM, canoptek/melee necrons, black templar/white scar/blood angels/space wolf SM (all of which have signature melee units with next to no shooting), BR repentia/penitent spam sisters, GSC/tyranid melee armies don't exist, eh? All of them bring very little shooting if they focus on melee components, or shooting that is terrible at handling chaff (because, guess what, they planned to handle it with melee) and the fact cheap, easily spammable unit counters all of the above with trivial stratagem is kind of bad rules writing. No army should be punished for doing the one thing is was made for.

And how they will get models in combat? Last time I checked, melee works both ways, and if that was opponents battle plan, they must bring all his models into melee range... Which funnily means opponent models get to do the same at the same time. Funny that.

Do you even know how close combat works in 9th edition?

All of those units, every. single. one. of. them. are vastly faster than poxwalkers, so they should be getting the charges. Almost all of them wipe out poxwalkers or most of them on the charge, the few that don't leave less than 10 alive. If you get to fight last because of the blightspawn relic (why did you charge into that?) there are still ways to reduce the poxwalkers allowed to hit you, as outlined in this thread. The poxwalkers pile in first and cannot consolidate away from you, then you pile in, meaning you get to hit more models than models that were allowed to hit you.
Also outlined in this thread, poxwalkers aren't really durable - throwing grenades and shooting pistols can also significantly reduce their numbers.

Last, but not least, this stratagem doesn't counter melee units in general - it counters durable elite units with low numbers of attacks. You don't spend a CP to kill 3 ork boyz, genestealers.or 2 assault intercessors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
And this is preciscly the reason why i hate stratagems, suddendly half your army isn't equal anymore.
Also lol flexibility to recycle and damage being flexible and not handleable via upgrades. Counter point, you could allow Poxes or plague zombies to recycle more when killing in melee and you could make them more killy via a varying upgrade for specific plague strains...

Any upgrade would just be an evaluation of "is this worth the points?" three weeks after the codex is released and then never thought about again. A well designed stratagem needs to be considered every game.

Whether stratagems are good for 40k or is off topic anyways, stratagems are here to stay.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

Otoh, why shouldn't you be able as a DG player to make poxwalker into something worth fielding beyond chaff via units upgrades like it was done in other editions?

What unit upgrades? Poxwalkers haven't really existed for that long and the reason there aren't upgrades on Poxwalkers is because they are literally mindless zombies that are infected. The stratagem actually reflects rather well the pestilence that grows within them and bursts out to kill enemy troops(or the poxwalker thanks to a very bad and virulent strain).

Interesting note: Poxwalkers are 1 point cheaper from the first codex in 8th compared to the first codex in 9th and even then have received several boosts on top of that. It basically took a lot of boosting to make them viable. Even then they are not exactly meta-shaking units.

Considering poxwalkers are just copyrightable name for Plague zombies, yes, there were older editions which allowed you to be dangerous with them

You talking about the ones in Necromunda 1996? Isn't that reaching a bit far and wrong game? There was also just the Typhus version of cultists which btw are still in the game under the name cultists(sans any special Typhus bonuses).

On a fun note, if we could have a deal that this stratagem gets removed and Poxwalkers get 8-9" inch move instead I'd be down for it.

no i mean plague zombies. Not even typhus one

Can you point to a datasheet or something?

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
And this is preciscly the reason why i hate stratagems, suddendly half your army isn't equal anymore.
Also lol flexibility to recycle and damage being flexible and not handleable via upgrades. Counter point, you could allow Poxes or plague zombies to recycle more when killing in melee and you could make them more killy via a varying upgrade for specific plague strains...

Any upgrade would just be an evaluation of "is this worth the points?" three weeks after the codex is released and then never thought about again. A well designed stratagem needs to be considered every game.

Whether stratagems are good for 40k or is off topic anyways, stratagems are here to stay.

Is it really an consideration when you can just decided to Yeet a bunch of termites for exemple?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
And this is preciscly the reason why i hate stratagems, suddendly half your army isn't equal anymore.
Also lol flexibility to recycle and damage being flexible and not handleable via upgrades. Counter point, you could allow Poxes or plague zombies to recycle more when killing in melee and you could make them more killy via a varying upgrade for specific plague strains...

Any upgrade would just be an evaluation of "is this worth the points?" three weeks after the codex is released and then never thought about again. A well designed stratagem needs to be considered every game.

Whether stratagems are good for 40k or is off topic anyways, stratagems are here to stay.

Is it really an consideration when you can just decided to Yeet a bunch of termites for exemple?

You have to be clearer. Terminators or Termagants? Or are you talking about literal termites? I am honestly wondering.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:
Don't pox walkers make their points up by the fact that they are ultra cheap, and allow the DG player to not be forced to take the over costed plague marines. By virtue of their cost, they automaticly pay their codex. If they also do anything else it is just a bonus.

No, thats one of the big changes in the 9th edition codex. You need at least one unit of Bubonic astartes per unit of poxwalker or cultists

i actually didnt know this.

Interesting read.