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Quick 'guard question. If I dust off my SHT and bring it along does it get the regiment bonus, or does being in an auxilary detachment mean no? (In which case a marginal case for inclusion becomes negative...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeff white wrote:

On a related note, wow do I hate the new command point economy.

Gods yes, why they just didn't give X army Y CPs at set points level is beyond me. Then have you pay CPs to soup.
E.g. Marines ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 5cp; ≤1000 7cp; ≤1500 10cp; ≤2000 14 cp ≥2001 18cp
Guard ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 4cp; ≤1000 5cp; ≤1500 7cp; ≤2000 10 cp ≥2001 14cp

As far as I'm aware, nothing about this CP change alters SHADs not benefiting from Detachment Abilities.

 Dysartes wrote:
As far as I'm aware, nothing about this CP change alters SHADs not benefiting from Detachment Abilities.

Agree. And that is still a big challenge running my Craftworld army. I really want to run a Wraithknight.

I do wish they’d let the SHAD benefit from whatever Chapter/Dynasty/Whatever Benefits your Warlord used. Monolith with a 6++ and a 6” Advance that lets it move thru terrain… ::homer drool::

The_Real_Chris wrote:Quick 'guard question. If I dust off my SHT and bring it along does it get the regiment bonus, or does being in an auxilary detachment mean no? (In which case a marginal case for inclusion becomes negative...)

Only if you use the appropriate Tank Ace stratagem. Steadfast Leviathan, isn't it? That's better than the vast majority of factions.

AduroT wrote:I do wish they’d let the SHAD benefit from whatever Chapter/Dynasty/Whatever Benefits your Warlord used. Monolith with a 6++ and a 6” Advance that lets it move thru terrain… ::homer drool::

If they get the faction purity bonus rules, I don't see why faction traits would be a problem. Those are usually a lot more powerful than faction traits.

Sterling191 wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

You CAN, but only SPECIFICALLY with forgeworld metalica and knight house raven thanks to the super special snowflake stratagem from the best book ever book of rust, Knight of the IRON Cog, not to be confused with the RULE knight of the cog which doesn't impart the admech keyword

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

I genuinely keep forgetting that that exists. Doesn't it cost a CP per unit for the strat though?

I don't think it works. Knight of the iron cog says you get "adeptus mechanicus" keyword for the purpose of canticle of the omnisiah.
You do not actually have the keyword

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Quick 'guard question. If I dust off my SHT and bring it along does it get the regiment bonus, or does being in an auxilary detachment mean no? (In which case a marginal case for inclusion becomes negative...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeff white wrote:

On a related note, wow do I hate the new command point economy.

Gods yes, why they just didn't give X army Y CPs at set points level is beyond me. Then have you pay CPs to soup.
E.g. Marines ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 5cp; ≤1000 7cp; ≤1500 10cp; ≤2000 14 cp ≥2001 18cp
Guard ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 4cp; ≤1000 5cp; ≤1500 7cp; ≤2000 10 cp ≥2001 14cp

That's... exactly what they've done? Except for giving different army different CPs at different points levels.

 jeff white wrote:

On a related note, wow do I hate the new command point economy.

Gods yes, why they just didn't give X army Y CPs at set points level is beyond me. Then have you pay CPs to soup.
E.g. Marines ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 5cp; ≤1000 7cp; ≤1500 10cp; ≤2000 14 cp ≥2001 18cp
Guard ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 4cp; ≤1000 5cp; ≤1500 7cp; ≤2000 10 cp ≥2001 14cp

The_Real_Chris wrote:


Gods yes, why they just didn't give X army Y CPs at set points level is beyond me. Then have you pay CPs to soup.
E.g. Marines ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 5cp; ≤1000 7cp; ≤1500 10cp; ≤2000 14 cp ≥2001 18cp
Guard ≤500pts 3cp; ≤750points 4cp; ≤1000 5cp; ≤1500 7cp; ≤2000 10 cp ≥2001 14cp

This seems really arbitrary and worse than the current system. And you do currently "pay" for soup in a couple of ways at least.

Rihgu wrote:


That's... exactly what they've done? Except for giving different army different CPs at different points levels.

They have given a fixed universal amount... sort of. Since you pay to include different detachments the amount is variable or constrained by army creation and availability of units (which doesn't seem well thought out). This is just a flat amount, have whatever combination of up to X detachments you want and your CP total reflects your armies C&C abilities, not your odd lack of fast attack say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:


This seems really arbitrary and worse than the current system. And you do currently "pay" for soup in a couple of ways at least.

Lots of games that use something similar to CP as a substitute for on table tactical complexity have varying amounts by force/team/army. Allows some armies to demonstrate their command/elite status. It is also a further balancing technique, where if one army is worse than others giving them a handicap boost (by GW or TOs) is a simple interim fix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
Because GW likes simplicity when it can get away with it. 4 Game sizes decided by PL/Points each with a specific CP level is simple. It also speaks to their desire that games be balanced based on equal PL/Points.

Could they be more granular and award 3 CP per 500 points? Certainly, but that doesn't reinforce their 4 game size paradigm.

Sorry couldn't remember how many levels there were (between 3 and 18cp) so assumed it was more granular...

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

panzerfront14 wrote:
Honestly, never understood why the LOW in a Super Heavy Aux does not get Subfaction traits if its the same Subfaction as your Warlord, that would fix this issue slightly and perhaps make them slightly more viable. Sure slap a -1 CP tax on LOW, but honestly a Baneblade should out gun it Russ Counterparts substantially, I shouldn't feel like I'm giving my opposition a huge leg up by taking a Stompa in my list. A monolith should fit into a Necron Army like a Glove, not be a huge floating liability because it can't float over some Sandbags.

TBH I am of the opinion that if a LOW ends it movement upon a barricade/obstacle, it should just flatten it. Instead of having them be just stopped, have the LOW simply displace it and either just ignore the unstable position rule, or just simply remove the barricade when they end their move over it, unless they have fly.

If a Monolith did it would take Szarekhan - picking up a reroll to wound on death rays/whip, a 5+++ vs MW, and protocols which could be stacked to double heal the monolith. Toss in a Chrono for a 5++ and you might exceed the points of the monolith and create an ecosystem where there's only one condition you would take one.

Again for context I am not calling this the most broken thing ever, but there are points to consider as to why this might be a better approach - this will not be true of all LoWs given options available to them. Obviously Cog knights can do it, but that carries its own restrictions.

Aren't Command Protocols like loyalists Angels of Death rules? Which means Monoliths get them. Command Protocols is on the datasheet. So the healing thing works. And the 5++ does too, Chronomancers just need a target <DYNASTY> unit. But that's cool, my Sorcerer works on my Fellblade just fine too.

Edit: Agreed with H.B.M.C.

Yes it just loses dynasty traits for being in an aux. Which for a 360 point model is a really big deal.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

panzerfront14 wrote:
Honestly, never understood why the LOW in a Super Heavy Aux does not get Subfaction traits if its the same Subfaction as your Warlord, that would fix this issue slightly and perhaps make them slightly more viable. Sure slap a -1 CP tax on LOW, but honestly a Baneblade should out gun it Russ Counterparts substantially, I shouldn't feel like I'm giving my opposition a huge leg up by taking a Stompa in my list. A monolith should fit into a Necron Army like a Glove, not be a huge floating liability because it can't float over some Sandbags.

TBH I am of the opinion that if a LOW ends it movement upon a barricade/obstacle, it should just flatten it. Instead of having them be just stopped, have the LOW simply displace it and either just ignore the unstable position rule, or just simply remove the barricade when they end their move over it, unless they have fly.

If a Monolith did it would take Szarekhan - picking up a reroll to wound on death rays/whip, a 5+++ vs MW, and protocols which could be stacked to double heal the monolith. Toss in a Chrono for a 5++ and you might exceed the points of the monolith and create an ecosystem where there's only one condition you would take one.

Again for context I am not calling this the most broken thing ever, but there are points to consider as to why this might be a better approach - this will not be true of all LoWs given options available to them. Obviously Cog knights can do it, but that carries its own restrictions.

Aren't Command Protocols like loyalists Angels of Death rules? Which means Monoliths get them. Command Protocols is on the datasheet. So the healing thing works. And the 5++ does too, Chronomancers just need a target <DYNASTY> unit. But that's cool, my Sorcerer works on my Fellblade just fine too.

Edit: Agreed with H.B.M.C.

Yes it just loses dynasty traits for being in an aux. Which for a 360 point model is a really big deal.

Depends on the faction doesn't it? Would your Astraeus be any better if it had +1 leadership? It can already fallback and shoot/charge, without the -1 to hit penalty. CSM don't get Legion traits on any of our vehicles except Hellbrutes. Even our fw dreads don't get them anymore. This is a big improvement from before.I don't really need my tank to be SCARY.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

panzerfront14 wrote:
Honestly, never understood why the LOW in a Super Heavy Aux does not get Subfaction traits if its the same Subfaction as your Warlord, that would fix this issue slightly and perhaps make them slightly more viable. Sure slap a -1 CP tax on LOW, but honestly a Baneblade should out gun it Russ Counterparts substantially, I shouldn't feel like I'm giving my opposition a huge leg up by taking a Stompa in my list. A monolith should fit into a Necron Army like a Glove, not be a huge floating liability because it can't float over some Sandbags.

TBH I am of the opinion that if a LOW ends it movement upon a barricade/obstacle, it should just flatten it. Instead of having them be just stopped, have the LOW simply displace it and either just ignore the unstable position rule, or just simply remove the barricade when they end their move over it, unless they have fly.

If a Monolith did it would take Szarekhan - picking up a reroll to wound on death rays/whip, a 5+++ vs MW, and protocols which could be stacked to double heal the monolith. Toss in a Chrono for a 5++ and you might exceed the points of the monolith and create an ecosystem where there's only one condition you would take one.

Again for context I am not calling this the most broken thing ever, but there are points to consider as to why this might be a better approach - this will not be true of all LoWs given options available to them. Obviously Cog knights can do it, but that carries its own restrictions.

Aren't Command Protocols like loyalists Angels of Death rules? Which means Monoliths get them. Command Protocols is on the datasheet. So the healing thing works. And the 5++ does too, Chronomancers just need a target <DYNASTY> unit. But that's cool, my Sorcerer works on my Fellblade just fine too.

Edit: Agreed with H.B.M.C.

Yes it just loses dynasty traits for being in an aux. Which for a 360 point model is a really big deal.

Depends on the faction doesn't it? Would your Astraeus be any better if it had +1 leadership? It can already fallback and shoot/charge, without the -1 to hit penalty. CSM don't get Legion traits on any of our vehicles except Hellbrutes. Even our fw dreads don't get them anymore. This is a big improvement from before.I don't really need my tank to be SCARY.

You make a good point - CSM are royally gakked.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

panzerfront14 wrote:
Honestly, never understood why the LOW in a Super Heavy Aux does not get Subfaction traits if its the same Subfaction as your Warlord, that would fix this issue slightly and perhaps make them slightly more viable. Sure slap a -1 CP tax on LOW, but honestly a Baneblade should out gun it Russ Counterparts substantially, I shouldn't feel like I'm giving my opposition a huge leg up by taking a Stompa in my list. A monolith should fit into a Necron Army like a Glove, not be a huge floating liability because it can't float over some Sandbags.

TBH I am of the opinion that if a LOW ends it movement upon a barricade/obstacle, it should just flatten it. Instead of having them be just stopped, have the LOW simply displace it and either just ignore the unstable position rule, or just simply remove the barricade when they end their move over it, unless they have fly.

If a Monolith did it would take Szarekhan - picking up a reroll to wound on death rays/whip, a 5+++ vs MW, and protocols which could be stacked to double heal the monolith. Toss in a Chrono for a 5++ and you might exceed the points of the monolith and create an ecosystem where there's only one condition you would take one.

Again for context I am not calling this the most broken thing ever, but there are points to consider as to why this might be a better approach - this will not be true of all LoWs given options available to them. Obviously Cog knights can do it, but that carries its own restrictions.

Aren't Command Protocols like loyalists Angels of Death rules? Which means Monoliths get them. Command Protocols is on the datasheet. So the healing thing works. And the 5++ does too, Chronomancers just need a target <DYNASTY> unit. But that's cool, my Sorcerer works on my Fellblade just fine too.

Edit: Agreed with H.B.M.C.

Yes it just loses dynasty traits for being in an aux. Which for a 360 point model is a really big deal.

Depends on the faction doesn't it? Would your Astraeus be any better if it had +1 leadership? It can already fallback and shoot/charge, without the -1 to hit penalty. CSM don't get Legion traits on any of our vehicles except Hellbrutes. Even our fw dreads don't get them anymore. This is a big improvement from before.I don't really need my tank to be SCARY.

You make a good point - CSM are royally gakked.

Oh . No worse than before. At least my LoWs don't eat as many CP anymore. And I can still give them +1 to hit, double movement, or a 5+++, with just ONE 115 PPM support character. And rerolls if my Chaos Lord is nearby. I don't need for them to have my Legion's useless trait.

I'm really excited as to what this means for playing An'Ggrath. Sure, he isn't competitive in the least, but he is an awesome model, and I love putting him on the tabletop, so any chance I get I normally take, and in my Khorne demon army, I basically got two of the three cp I pay to exalt the other GDoK back. So that's pretty sweet.

Here I am crossing my fingers that Be'lakor is a supreme commander for demons...

I'm guessing that Yarrick's named Baneblade Fortress of Arrogance (?) doesn't currently have rules that allow it to gain a warlord trait?