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https://twitter.com/No_Tables/status/1416365802366795776?s=20

Long story short there's a number issues that have been cropping up with the warhammer+ model. Amongst them, it's the apparent fact that most content creators are being 'forced' to work for them. Additionally, there's the SODAZ issue, where the case for his retirement was a combo of fan toxicity and poor gw conditions.

And in news that surprised nobody.... Gw being a gakky company to its community and workers. More at 11.

We don't need another thread arguing wether you should be allowed to earn money with copyrighted ideas from a big company.

By the way, from the content creator who was "forced" himself:

Added clarification because my dumbass forgot to record it: GW is actually being very reasonable with this, and I'm not angry at them in any way. Don't send blind hate.

Edit: And the content creator is even allowed to continue doing 40k animations. Just not receive money for it. How is that gakky in any way?

It's not a case of content creators being forced to work for GW.

It's a case of GW forcing them to stop making money from GW's IP.

GW, at no point, have told content creators they must remove their work.

They have told content creators if they wish to keep their work up on, for example YouTube, they can either work for GW and get paid, but have to remove their content.

Or, they can not work for GW and keep their content up, but can't make money from it.

I actually think GW have been more than reasonable about the whole thing, it is, after all, their IP.

The SODAZ issue however is completely different, and is a sad state of the fanbase but I don't want to dwell on that as it might turn into a tox-fest.

So let me get this straight:

People are breaking the IP law in various contries, including the host country of the platform.
They directly profit from this illegal activity in form of money and exposure for their portfolio.
Instead of suing them instantly, the owner of the IP offers them a job instead.
And even if the lawbreaker refuses the offer, they face no repercussions other than that their monetization channels are closed down and the illegal content is taken down.

And yet somehow Games Workshop is still supposed the evil one here? Some people are in dire need of coming to grips with reality.

Considering "just how much inspiration GW took" it makes them look hypocritical.

Also that does imply that the state of modern IP law is somehow acceptable, except that it isn't considering that f.e. it allows Disney to monetise infinitely f.e. Grimm tales which are by allrights common cultural entities.

 Vovin wrote:
So let me get this straight:

People are breaking the IP law in various contries, including the host country of the platform.
They directly profit from this illegal activity in form of money and exposure for their portfolio.
Instead of suing them instantly, the owner of the IP offers them a job instead.
And even if the lawbreaker refuses the offer, they face no repercussions other than that their monetization channels are closed down and the illegal content is taken down.

And yet somehow Games Workshop is still supposed the evil one here? Some people are in dire need of coming to grips with reality.

Imagine implying directly profitting from breaking GW's copyright law is somehow morally wrong

*sighs*

OT is biased and reporting wrong version of the story.




Real "long story short" is that the guy made videos / content for money about 40k's universe.

GW reached him and offer him to work with them. He refused for his own reasons. Then his videos on youtube got demonitized and his patreon got pulled...by him. He did it himself.

It's not "forcing people to work for them". And indeed, the guy understands why it happened. And he still can earn money by staying independant...just not by using GW's IP publicly.


About the SODAZ's case...it's not "because of GW conditions". He actually didn't start to work with them. GW apparently replied a bit late and the guy decided not to work with them in the end. Harassment came from people on the Internet, not people working at GW. And it is only the harassment that made him almost quit animating. GW has nothing to do with this.

 Vovin wrote:
So let me get this straight:

People are breaking the IP law in various contries, including the host country of the platform.
They directly profit from this illegal activity in form of money and exposure for their portfolio.
Instead of suing them instantly, the owner of the IP offers them a job instead.
And even if the lawbreaker refuses the offer, they face no repercussions other than that their monetization channels are closed down and the illegal content is taken down.

And yet somehow Games Workshop is still supposed the evil one here? Some people are in dire need of coming to grips with reality.

He doesn't even have to put it down. He can and will continue to do 40k animations.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Imagine implying directly profitting from breaking GW's copyright law is somehow morally wrong

You are the kind of person why vigilante justice is forbidden.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Vovin wrote:
So let me get this straight:

People are breaking the IP law in various contries, including the host country of the platform.
They directly profit from this illegal activity in form of money and exposure for their portfolio.
Instead of suing them instantly, the owner of the IP offers them a job instead.
And even if the lawbreaker refuses the offer, they face no repercussions other than that their monetization channels are closed down and the illegal content is taken down.

And yet somehow Games Workshop is still supposed the evil one here? Some people are in dire need of coming to grips with reality.

Imagine implying directly profitting from breaking GW's copyright law is somehow morally wrong

Well, it’s not GW’s copyright law, is it? It’s just….copyright law. It’s neither particularly moral or immoral. It just is what it is. You create an expansive IP, you’re perfectly entitled to defend it from those who seek to profit from that IP without your express permission or a formal license.

Could be books, video, toys, blankets etc. If you’re using another’s IP, expect them to come knocking sooner or later.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:


Imagine implying directly profitting from breaking GW's copyright law is somehow morally wrong

It's not "GW's copyright law" - it's UK copyright law.

This is how the system works. Either GW stop people profiting from their IP, or they lose the rights to that IP and with it their whole business model.

a_typical_hero wrote:

He doesn't even have to put it down. He can and will continue to do 40k animations.

He said he will...just for free and for the pleasure, and not for donations or gaining money on patreon / youtube.

We can only hope other contents creators take notice, and stop any and all GW content. Better safe than sorry, and GW fans can enjoy all the curated content of WarhammerPay.

Cronch wrote:
We can only hope other contents creators take notice, and stop any and all GW content. Better safe than sorry, and GW fans can enjoy all the curated content of WarhammerPay.

Nowhere did the guys say they were treated badly by GW, though. And GW reached for them to chat in both cases. So it's not -that- bad as it may happen with, say, Nintendo on Youtube (here, they claim for content videos without reaching the creators first, and they do force demonitization - they don't let the creators decide to do this by themselves).

But as usual, GW haters gonna hate GW.

So the only "issues" with Warhammer+ are that some content creators who are making money off someone else IP don't want to work with the IP owner/creator.
Hardly Watergate is it.

It really isn't.

Besides, they have their own right not to work with GW. That No_Tables guy did say in his video it's because the terms weren't interesting but also mentions he's still full-time student and doesn't intend to stop it.

So I guess the main reason is the job offer wasn't enough for him to hinder his studies and he can't offer himself to fully go into an animation job right now.

Wanting to stay independant is also very valid.

I think this is tricky if you ask me and not as clear cut as people may suggest.

More important than the IP dispute we have a very fragile balance here. What I mean is animation creators on you tube are for the most part doing small margins, very small I may speculate, in comparison with GW potential profits of its + channel.

Does that change anything? well It does since GW needs content creators more than these guys need GW since they have almost nothing to lose and if their projects are YouTube based they probably do it on the side of studies or other line of work. GW on the other hand will lose much more ( or not gain) if their channel doesn't have content.

So yes more than IP dispute its a fragile complex negotiation process IMO.

I don't see the issue here at all. Someone was profiting from someone elses IP without permission, they were invited to work with the company in order to make their stuff effectively official work that then wasn't breaching copyright law, they refused and so don't have permission to use the IP and make money off of it - but it seems he'll still make animations anyway.

That isn't "forcing" anyone to work for them. They'd be well within their rights to just stop them using the IP at all (regardless of if they are making money off it or not) and are under no obligation to offer them anything, but GW reaching out to fans and offering to legitimize their animations with a job is somehow meant to be "the bad side of GW"?

What is it that those saying this is GW being bad actually want? For them to let anyone use their IP without permission and make money off it?

 xttz wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:


Imagine implying directly profitting from breaking GW's copyright law is somehow morally wrong

It's not "GW's copyright law" - it's UK copyright law.

This is how the system works. Either GW stop people profiting from their IP, or they lose the rights to that IP and with it their whole business model.

This is a bit of a misconception. That's something that mostly applies to trademarks where they have to be defended, not so much the copyright.

 NAVARRO wrote:
What I mean is animation creators on you tube are for the most part doing small margins, very small I may speculate, in comparison with GW potential profits of its + channel.

Pure animation creators on youtube do small margins, period. Not even in comparison to GW, just their fellow youtubers. Animation takes time, so you can't release videos as often as, say, youtubers bragging / commenting on other people's work or streaming them playing video games. Hell, even making battle reports...

That's why animations are so few in comparison to the rest. It's just not profitable on youtube. And that's also why most of them have a patreon...


Otherwise, it's not really an IP dispute, here. Like I said, the No_Tables guy removed his patreon and demontized his 40k videos on youtube himself. There was no claim from GW, it's more an agreement with him after the chat.

So, it's not an ideal scenerio, but the world rarely has one. I don't see GW as some big bad company for doing this. They're still a company I hold basically no respect for, but this isn't a scenerio as to why they're bad.

Honestly I think this just highlights how badly we, the community, have allowed blind "GW HATE" to spread itself through our hobby, especially online. To the point where we are so hyped up on the hate and so willing to blindly accept it that we are willing to sling mud without any reason or valid argument.


GW is honestly doing nothing wrong and offering jobs to people making this content is WAY beyond what most other Copyright/IP owners would do. The vast majority would just shut them down and thats the end of it. Heck yes at one time GW would have done that too perhaps - but they aren't now.


I think that we as a community really need to reflect on our attitude and impression of GW. How we treat and talk about GW and, most importantly, those who work for GW.

Because in the end GW is just a collection of people working in a hobby market on something they love. In the end we have to realise that hate and death threats for writing books; destroying people for working for GW. These are honestly horrific things and for them to be justified and tolerated actions of FANS is honestly horrible to think of

Another thread discussing this is not needed, it has been hashed out at least four times already.