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 ZergSmasher wrote:
-Centurions (either type). Dark Angels have Deathwing, which outperform Centurions on so many levels it's not funny. Maybe other chapters can make these work, but IMO they are worthless as Dark Angels..

I'd probably consider them most for the Las Canons/Missle Launchers personally, having something that hard hitting that can use the Combat Restorative strat and be a bit less vunerable to melee than tanks.

moreorless wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
-Centurions (either type). Dark Angels have Deathwing, which outperform Centurions on so many levels it's not funny. Maybe other chapters can make these work, but IMO they are worthless as Dark Angels..

I'd probably consider them most for the Las Canons/Missle Launchers personally, having something that hard hitting that can use the Combat Restorative strat and be a bit less vunerable to melee than tanks.

Salamanders can use Self Sacrifice to let other infantry units body-block for the Cents like Grots do for Orks, that's a pretty big buff to the Cents durability. ...and I think I just spotted a valid use for Scouts.

 Vankraken wrote:

Tau it would be the Stormsurge. Absolutely hate the thing and what it represents to the original Tau lore. Tau'nar is also included in this as well.

Curious as to how the stormsurge is an issue with the lore? (I'm a long way behind on my tau lore)

Niiru wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Tau it would be the Stormsurge. Absolutely hate the thing and what it represents to the original Tau lore. Tau'nar is also included in this as well.

Curious as to how the stormsurge is an issue with the lore? (I'm a long way behind on my tau lore)

originally the Tau lore said the Tau don't build LARGE walkers, prefering to use aircraft instead. this was mostly a "they don't use TITANS" explination for epic IIRC, but everytime GW's put out new bigger suits people have use that lore to say why it doesn't fit. obviously some people accept that compared to a titan the stormsurge is still "pretty small" so it's a matter of interpretation.

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Tau it would be the Stormsurge. Absolutely hate the thing and what it represents to the original Tau lore. Tau'nar is also included in this as well.

Curious as to how the stormsurge is an issue with the lore? (I'm a long way behind on my tau lore)

originally the Tau lore said the Tau don't build LARGE walkers, prefering to use aircraft instead. this was mostly a "they don't use TITANS" explination for epic IIRC, but everytime GW's put out new bigger suits people have use that lore to say why it doesn't fit. obviously some people accept that compared to a titan the stormsurge is still "pretty small" so it's a matter of interpretation.

It also ignores another facet of the Tau's lore. They innovate and change tactics all the time. At the beginning of the Damocles Gulf Crusade they didn't have the tech to build giant walkers to serve as fire base and relied instead on air support. As their tech progressed, they manage to field bigger and more powerful mechs in addition to their prior air support crafts. Tau don't use "relics" they use prototypes.

Custodes: Wardens and their Plastic Dreadnaught.

AM: navigators, wierdvane pskers, Ogryns.

GK: Crusaders?

Tau: Devilfish

mrFickle wrote:

I find CSM bikes odd, they are exactly the same as SM bikes have no wargear options and are thematically stale. Surely CSM would have put spike and blades on their bikes to chop people up or something.

You'd think CSM would be riding daemons (eg. juggernauts, nurgle beasts, plague drones, fiends) instead of, y'know, a suzuki.

Niiru wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

I find CSM bikes odd, they are exactly the same as SM bikes have no wargear options and are thematically stale. Surely CSM would have put spike and blades on their bikes to chop people up or something.

You'd think CSM would be riding daemons (eg. juggernauts, nurgle beasts, plague drones, fiends) instead of, y'know, a suzuki.

Difference of degree. CSM are still using boltguns and wearing power armour; they're not supposed to be a copy-paste SM clone, but they're also supposed to represent an evil-counterpart-army to SM, so they're going to have some of the same stuff.

epronovost wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Tau it would be the Stormsurge. Absolutely hate the thing and what it represents to the original Tau lore. Tau'nar is also included in this as well.

Curious as to how the stormsurge is an issue with the lore? (I'm a long way behind on my tau lore)

originally the Tau lore said the Tau don't build LARGE walkers, prefering to use aircraft instead. this was mostly a "they don't use TITANS" explination for epic IIRC, but everytime GW's put out new bigger suits people have use that lore to say why it doesn't fit. obviously some people accept that compared to a titan the stormsurge is still "pretty small" so it's a matter of interpretation.

It also ignores another facet of the Tau's lore. They innovate and change tactics all the time. At the beginning of the Damocles Gulf Crusade they didn't have the tech to build giant walkers to serve as fire base and relied instead on air support. As their tech progressed, they manage to field bigger and more powerful mechs in addition to their prior air support crafts. Tau don't use "relics" they use prototypes.

The Tau saw the Titans as completely wasteful of resources, which they are. Putting all those resources into a giant walker or mech is less efficient than spreading those resources out over a number of smaller designs. Having more of the smaller design also grants more tactical flexibility. If you can build 18 Crisis Suits for the cost of a Stormsurge, then it is by far the better investment. The Stormsurge can only ever be in one place, whereas you can assign those 18 Crisis Suits to wherever you need them.

We saw this in WW2 with the German tank designs. It doesn't matter that your King Tiger is more powerful than a T-34 when the Soviets can produce a lot more T-34s and outmanoeuvre you with those superior numbers and destroy your big, expensive tank with their smaller, cheaper tanks.

Also, the change in the lore to bring in the Riptide was really bad as it didn't reflect the tabletop abilities of the unit in question at all. In the lore they tried to describe it as being brought in to counter the heavier Imperial armour, despite its armament being inferior to the tried and tested Hammerhead against such targets. They just basically switched massed Hammerheads, in conjunction with aircraft, taking out titans to Riptides, despite the Hammerhead being better at the job.

Castigators. I refuse to field it. An unnecessary addition to the army and one that does not even look like it belongs. Just looks like a predator. Lazy arse design.

I actually quite like the look, and think the design makes sense. The Sisters use Rhino chassis vehicles already. They have the Exorcist which, again, is based on the Rhino chassis. So having their own tank based on the Rhino chassis makes sense. Why can't it exist?

Mortifiers. Another unnecessary addition and I just don't like the idea of sisters being so faithless and cowardly they even get to this point.

I think this makes sense too. It's just a Penitent Engine piloted by a Repentia.

Paragon warsuits. Just don't like the models.

The models do look a little silly, but I like the idea of them. They're the normal versions of Penitent Engines. I just wish they had a better profile. Why don't they get 5 wounds and 4 attacks base like Penitent Engines do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tau don't use "relics" they use prototypes.

I actually kinda wish a lot of the Tau's current prototype systems become standard equipment in their next codex. Then we get introduced to a whole new bunch of prototype systems.

You know, to represent the previous prototypes being accepted and placed into regular doctrine.