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I was trying to write you do NOT need to be in full health to rez with Flux, but my phone trolled me

So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Im hooked on forgefiends and mauler fiends right now.

Can we teleport them? supping up a Maulerfiend and teleporting it across the board to tie up some units is a solid option.

I also loved old heldrakes. Giving them a hover mode lets them charge turn1 too but making them aircraft means you cant hide them behind obscuring anymore.

Its possible turn 1 super size a heldrake and send it into whatever you can.

So turn 1 you can snag a heldrake and a maulerfiend into the back line.

Thats the distraction.

The Castle has to create a smite concave that you opponents have to get drawn into.

Is magnus a trap now?


Also what will you be using to count your cabal points? spindown d20? or tokens? cheetos?

dreadlybrew wrote:
So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Im hooked on forgefiends and mauler fiends right now.

Can we teleport them? supping up a Maulerfiend and teleporting it across the board to tie up some units is a solid option.

I also loved old heldrakes. Giving them a hover mode lets them charge turn1 too but making them aircraft means you cant hide them behind obscuring anymore.

Its possible turn 1 super size a heldrake and send it into whatever you can.

So turn 1 you can snag a heldrake and a maulerfiend into the back line.

Thats the distraction.

The Castle has to create a smite concave that you opponents have to get drawn into.

Is magnus a trap now?


Also what will you be using to count your cabal points? spindown d20? or tokens? cheetos?

You can't teleport a daemon engine now. You can't warptime one either.

The new warptime only works on infantry, beast or calvary. The duplicity spell Sorcerous Facade only works on infantry and monsters.

yuck, Heldrake x2 it is then

dreadlybrew wrote:
So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Got links to ones you've watched?

Are TSons durable enough? I know there is a lot of excitement over Occult Terminators but - while they aren't super pricey - they also aren't cheap on a wound per point basis. It also seems like a decent comp army - like ramshackle orks, dark eldar, etc. will just blow them out of the water.

So much seems to revolve around keeping the characters safe... I'm thinking the rhino may be the unsung hero here as it has an invul and fairly cheap to take?

@BoomWolf

I like your summary on the first page, but i`d like to add some additional thought / ideas:

Exalted Sorcerer B

I understand your argument about the Princes / Ahriman, but i would still rate the Exalted at least A.
You get almost two for the price of a winged prince, have the infantry keyword, can get relics / WL traits unlike Ahriman and have some good Legion upgrades that unlock abilitys that the prince and Ahriman don`t have access to. I agree you should always take a Prince if possible, but since you take more than 2-3 HQ´s anyway there`s always room for an Exalted and he`s good for his point costs.

Infernal Master B

For me he is a solid S, but should be at least an A in my opinion. With 90 points he is quite cheap, he`s a psyker and 3 of his Infernal Pacts are very strong.
Glimpse of Eternity is pure Gold for charges and other important stuff, that kind of reroll is damn good and replaces our Gaze of Fate. Malefic Maelstrom is also pretty solid and can make big squads of Scarabs / Rubrics even more devastating. Bladed Maelstrom is good as well and the rest at least situationally good. With the strat you can even have a 100% "cast".
I´d even say taking two Masters in a infantry heavy list is a decent option for more flexibility. A strategem to use 1 Master twice would have been so damn cool...

Scarab Occult Terminators A

Why not S? You basically wrote why they should be. They got really good and on top of it ObSec? Deal.

Arrogance of Eons[C

I`d give this an A and even call this the best trait in our codex (at least for Exalted Sorcerers). This will be my go-to trait for my MW Exalted / Prince 90% of the time, because besides the deny reroll it`s the second part of the trait that makes it so good. Being able to profit from 2 rituals is really strong to stack buffs, especially if you consider you can combine it with relics.
Stuff like casting without LOS + D3 extra MW to kill hiding characters or simply spam MW and so on. Rituals is already a really strong mechanic and being able to double tab it on a psyker is fantastic, especially if it`s your workhorse / sniper Psyker.

Umbralefic Crystal A

This was an auto-take before and it still is - i`d rate it a straight S.
Tactical flexibility, the 9th mission design and the ability to combine it with Temporal Surge & Sorcerous Facade for some early pressure or late game tricks makes this one of our best relics.

Athenaean Scrolls A

Considering super smites and powers like Firestorm that have a super charged mode now, i`d rate this S as well.
Anything that makes our important psychic phase more reliable is a straight and solid buff, and that one - while being limited to 1 power - is still decent.

Tzeentch Firestorm A

Gaze of Hate C

Our two sniper powers to go, i`d rate them both S or at least rate Gaze A as well, even if it is worse on average if you compare it with supercharged Firestorm.
But considering the D3 extra MW and the other Rituals + our other psychic buffs for me those are both S tier just for their utility.
Easy casts as well and along others our "long" range witchfire spells now.

PresageB

Thats harsh, the stacking on big squads of Scarabs / Rubrics with this is pretty devastating + it kept it`s option to cast it on FW stuff (Of wich a lot got nerfed to BF 3+)
I have not been playing without this since our last codex dropped and never regretted taking it.
This should be A or even S.

Weaver of Fates C

I know we lost the 3++, but honestly this still feels like an A+?
Just for the Scarabs 4++ this is an auto-take imo and even for other stuff it`s still a good one.
Not locked on anything as well.




Overall great work there with quite a few good catches and the most important stuff there.
Alltogether it kinda feels you rated most powers a bit worse though - that kinda does not matter so much as the internal rating is the same that way, but especially on those above it felt a bit more underrated.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

dreadlybrew wrote:
So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Got links to ones you've watched?

Youtube channels: Tabletop Tactics, Tabletop Titans, Vanguard Tactics, and twisted dice.

GK won every one of them. a few were close but Tsons are basically missing the melee phase which the GK are very good at.

dreadlybrew wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

dreadlybrew wrote:
So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Got links to ones you've watched?

Youtube channels: Tabletop Tactics, Tabletop Titans, Vanguard Tactics, and twisted dice.

GK won every one of them. a few were close but Tsons are basically missing the melee phase which the GK are very good at.

GKs also have that army-wide 5+ against mortal wounds. They honestly seem tailor-made as a hard counter to TSons. It'll be interesting to see the TSons matched up against other armies that don't have that built-in MW protection. Against GKs, I suspect TSons will have to go one of two routes: Go WAY overboard on MW production to punch through the Aegis' protection, or dial back on the sorcery and focus more on stuff like Helbrutes and other vehicles.

Brian888 wrote:


GKs also have that army-wide 5+ against mortal wounds. They honestly seem tailor-made as a hard counter to TSons.

to be fair, it sort of makes sense they would be. they are, like, the imperium's specialist anti-Warpstuff marines. Daemons are a big part of that, yes, but thier are other facets and being really good witchkillers will give them some options against other armies than us.

dreadlybrew wrote:


Youtube channels: Tabletop Tactics, Tabletop Titans, Vanguard Tactics, and twisted dice.

GK won every one of them. a few were close but Tsons are basically missing the melee phase which the GK are very good at.

So, I'm watching TTactics and he deployed with an all duplicity army that allowed Interceptors to gate behind and totally ruin a whole squad. And honestly the terrain is beautiful, but the setup is atrocious. His entirely army is basically in the open, he went first, and did absolutely nothing.

Titans took Magnus making for a smaller army and he managed to get a GMDK to teleport and charged his backfield. I don't think they had much time in the book since he thought he had to roll morale and he did a 2D6 smite with Magnus.

I wouldn't take away much from these initial games.

The book's big weakness IMO is that it has almost nothing that trades well. Spawn are about it. It's like the polar opposite of dark eldar. What you do have is good concentrated MW output and extremely, ridiculously reliable casting, but none of it is on a delivery mechanism you can trade effectively with. If you play this book by trying to just blow up your enemy you are going to have a very bad time of it. So many armies can just comprehensively outkill you.

That said, I think a certain kind of TS list is going to be quite successful - especially if the FAQ turns out to say that "can't be denied" means you can't use any of the denial strats, in addition to just DTW. That opens up the ability for TS to be the only faction that can plan around being able to take psychic secondaries, and a list built around taking a psychic secondary, one of either while we stand or wrath of magnus depending on the matchup, and banners/ROD/maybe even engage or burn empires, I think has real potential to win on points even though it's being comprehensively beaten on an army vs army level.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The book's big weakness IMO is that it has almost nothing that trades well. Spawn are about it. It's like the polar opposite of dark eldar. What you do have is good concentrated MW output and extremely, ridiculously reliable casting, but none of it is on a delivery mechanism you can trade effectively with. If you play this book by trying to just blow up your enemy you are going to have a very bad time of it. So many armies can just comprehensively outkill you.

That said, I think a certain kind of TS list is going to be quite successful - especially if the FAQ turns out to say that "can't be denied" means you can't use any of the denial strats, in addition to just DTW. That opens up the ability for TS to be the only faction that can plan around being able to take psychic secondaries, and a list built around taking a psychic secondary, one of either while we stand or wrath of magnus depending on the matchup, and banners/ROD/maybe even engage or burn empires, I think has real potential to win on points even though it's being comprehensively beaten on an army vs army level.

I feel like that's a very army-appropriate, "Just as I planned" strategy. Models get thrashed, but you actually win on the points.

dreadlybrew wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

dreadlybrew wrote:
So I am looking at the way the debut games are being played on channels and 1ksons are running into a staying power issue.

I think the answer is to castle and build a few bowling balls.

Got links to ones you've watched?

Youtube channels: Tabletop Tactics, Tabletop Titans, Vanguard Tactics, and twisted dice.

GK won every one of them. a few were close but Tsons are basically missing the melee phase which the GK are very good at.

I watched everyone of these as well. Tabletop titans has one more on membership channel which I watched too, which finally had a first TSons win which was against Necrons. But it was a hard fought close match right up till the end. I noticed a few things that maybe contributed to the widespread heavy losses.

1. Tsons vs GK is a bad matchup for Tsons. GK has aegis which gives the 5+ save against MW. This reduces the MW output of Tsons against them by one third. Also, GK specialises in close combat now. Any player looking at their army generally comes up with the strategy of teleporting or deep striking or moving fast units into charge range, throw out some witchfire spells and smites, and then charging into close combat. This is a natural counter to a Tsons army playstyle, which doesn't really want to go into that much melee.

2. Most of the players do not lean into smite and witchfire spells enough. I easily count over 10 casts that most of these armies could do, and they end up casting non witchfire spells with most of them. Don't get me wrong, a few buffs/movement spells might be crucial... However, you simply can't buff or debuff your opponent to death. If a typical Tsons army has the potential to do 20 MW, and you are only doing 6MW because you cast so many more other non witchfire spells... then unless your ranged and melee damage makes up for that deficit, otherwise, you are losing too much of the damage that should be part of a Tsons army.

3. The list making stage. They paid so much for extra casting abilities and had too little units. Many lists took multiple expensive characters and ended up with fewer units. Once those units died, the expensive castors died too. Count up the "Abalative wounds" which you need to shield your castors in your army. So take out your characters and see how many wounds your army has in total. If your opponent's army has 100 wounds minus characters, while your Tsons army only has 70W. Then you are already playing with a 30% smaller army against them. Are Tsons characters so good they can win the game with such a huge disadvantage in the regular army size?

4. Too much points spent on Rubrics and not using Rubrics well. I think Rubrics are a tough unit to use well, and to make back their points. For point efficiency, I would always use Occults over Rubrics. Occults shoot better, fight so much better, are so much tankier. Rubrics are fine, but we need to have a proper plan for them. If we just stand our rubrics at long range and rely on that one reaper cannon and a few inferno shots each turn while we slowly move them around 6 inches per turn, they will likely just get charged and die before making back their points. Not enough warpflamers on these rubrics, and even if you do use warpflamer rubrics, the question is whether you make back their points. Imagine loading up 10 warpflamer rubrics onto a Rhino. Thats 80+270 or 350 points! If you get out of the Rhino, overkill BBQ one unit and then die to being charged after that. You just lost a huge chunk of points just to BBQ one unit. Was it even a good trade ? They don't even have to kill the Rubric squad. Once most enemy units get into close combat with a Rubric squad, it is effectively neutralised because you can't shoot anymore. A rubric marine has just 2 attacks with 0AP. Even a 10 man Rubric squad costing over 200 points will take forever to fight a regular 100 point squad of first born marines in melee.

5. They don't use Cult of Duplicity. Given the slow speed of our army. We actually play like a more shooty/psychic Deathguard army while being less resilient. But we have DMC and cult of Duplicity to make up for that. We absolutely need this. I feel that Cult of Duplicity is so important for the teleport spell that even if we want to play other cults, we still then need to play two detachments simply because that teleport spell is so important. Without that and DMC (which is one use only), we are a slow plodding army.

6. The secondary objectives. Most of the games I watched ended up with the Tsons player scoring low despite taking a Tsons specific secondary. The only Tsons secondary that you should take against GK should be Sorceress Powess. Any other Tsons secondary against a GK list is bad because they have the psychic ability to match us closely. With Sorceress Powess, kill 5 GK units, and you get the max 15 points. Kill 1 GK character and 3 GK units and you get 14 points. I don't know why most of the channel players didn't take this against GK. If you can't kill 5 GK units throughout the course of the whole game, you probably have lost badly anyway.

7. Not enough melee capability. Like it or not, you will end up in Melee during the game. Far too many lists didn't have enough melee. Its like once their army get touched, its effectiveness dropped to zero.

That's my 2 cents after observing all the Tsons youtube videos since our codex dropped.

Brian888 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
The book's big weakness IMO is that it has almost nothing that trades well. Spawn are about it. It's like the polar opposite of dark eldar. What you do have is good concentrated MW output and extremely, ridiculously reliable casting, but none of it is on a delivery mechanism you can trade effectively with. If you play this book by trying to just blow up your enemy you are going to have a very bad time of it. So many armies can just comprehensively outkill you.

That said, I think a certain kind of TS list is going to be quite successful - especially if the FAQ turns out to say that "can't be denied" means you can't use any of the denial strats, in addition to just DTW. That opens up the ability for TS to be the only faction that can plan around being able to take psychic secondaries, and a list built around taking a psychic secondary, one of either while we stand or wrath of magnus depending on the matchup, and banners/ROD/maybe even engage or burn empires, I think has real potential to win on points even though it's being comprehensively beaten on an army vs army level.

I feel like that's a very army-appropriate, "Just as I planned" strategy. Models get thrashed, but you actually win on the points.

For sure. It actually fits really well, given how basically everything in the army is totally expendable and/or infinitely resurrectable aside from the leaders. This doesn't feel like a very wide book, though. I have a feeling all the competitive TS armies are gonna look really similar in a few months once people work it out.

But then again, isn't that a contradiction? On the one hand, we don't seem to trade well because most of our units are expensive. Yet, we are trying to go for objectives at all costs while ignoring casualties.

Not really. Playing the mission is the standard strategy for an army with units that don't trade well. Custodes, Dark Angels that lean into deathwing, DG, etc.

40k basically has two types of armies, the type of armies that try to table the opponent (Ad Mech being the most obvious example at the moment), and the type of armies that try to win while getting tabled. TS looks to me like a win while getting tabled army.

We can make a pretty tough resilient list if we lean into daemon princes, chaos spawn and Occults Terminators and Vindicators. It might be a lot of similar units, but it will be tough to kill. Daemon Princes are one per detachment. So we can easily run two if we have two detachments.

Two detachments (just 2 more CP) can let us bring an army with 3x5 chaos spawn, 3 squads of Occult terminators, 2 Daemon Princes and 3 Vindicators. That's 8 units that can fight reasonably well, and 11 units which are reasonably tough to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a separate note. A basic DP is movement 8 right?

A DP without wings, but with the warlord trait Aetherstride gets a 11 inch fly, and can fall back and charge. Sounds like a great way to save 35 points !

That list has like no good secondary picks. Can't do banners. Can't do while we stand. Engage is problematic, you'll get it for a turn or two, but as soon as the spawn die you are going to have trouble keeping it up for 5 turns. Rod is theoretically possible but practically a huge waste of the scarabs, even the one you upgrade to be able to shoot. Psychic secondaries are iffy with so few casters and so few cabal points, you lose just a couple things and you can't make your psychic action undeniable and you don't really want to be doing that with a demon prince anyway if you can avoid it. You're stuck hoping for lucky picks like wrath, kill secondaries against skew lists, etc.

A good rule of thumb is that for a list to work competitively it needs two secondaries it can rely on scoring at least 10 points on in all but the very worst matchups, with a third that will score at least 6, preferably more.

So, maybe drop 1 Vindicator. You need to have two troop units anyway for two patrols. Two tzaangor/cultist units for raise banners. Maybe add in a flying tzaangor shaman and bring slightly less Chao Spawn.

Sorry oh wait, ROD cannot be done by characters zzz. But an infernal master and two troops can certainly raise banners. ROD really doesn't seem like a great secondary for us. Our infantry is too expensive and valuable to waste on doing ROD.

Warp Ritual seems great for us as a secondary. Can be easily done with an infernal master or shaman near the center. So that covers warpcraft. Or we can take the Legion command Ardent Automata for +20 points on an Occult Aspiring sorceror. This lets our Occult terminator Sorceror unit do the warp ritual while still being able to shoot. I just got my codex today and doubled checked something. Cabalistic Focus is a cabal ritual that costs 8 cabal points. It specifically states that a psychic action or power cannot be denied. So, Tsons can literally force through and complete Warp Ritual secondary no matter how many denies the opponent has as long as you are willing to spend 8 cabal points for 3 turns to do it.

For the Tsons specific secondary, Wrath of Magnus seems auto take as long as opponent is not GK. And against GK, then we bring sorceress powers, which is simply psychic units or characters killed, they don't need to be killed by psychic. They can be killed by shooting and melee and it would still count as well. (Addendum - I was wrong about this. Now that I got the codex and double checked, it counts only in units killed during the psychic phase, so this is bad against GK. There is nothing good against GK except forcing through Warp Ritual.)

So, that just leaves one secondary left. Actually, Ardent Automata wording is that the Aspiring sorceror unit can shoot and still perform an action without failing. So, its not just psychic actions, its ALL actions. This means that for 20 points, that will cover us raising the banners on a midpoint objective once our Occult terminators have cleared it. Or we can use DMC to yeet the 10 man Occult squad onto an unoccupied midpoint objective, it raises banners and can still shoot.

Add to that the two cheap squads we can take to raise banners, that should cover raise banners.

Honestly, now that I read this more closely, it really looks like we don't exactly need to twist our army composition into knots and we can still comfortably cover secondary objectives. We should be good on primaries too, because we will likely have one big obsec deathball in the middle of the board.

I thought of another thing. if you go Cult of Scheming and give a Daemon Prince the Grand Schemer warlord trait. Then the DP now have a 3 inch gives obsec aura, and it gives obsec units double obsec. Good luck trying to take away from me that midboard objective that has my deathball with at least 10 Occult terminators with double obsec and 5 chaos spawn and a DP all with obsec. (It can have more units too lol).

Also, our ability to "snipe" enemy castors is considerable. One good infernal gaze and Tzeentch firestorm +d3 MW more damage from a cabal ritual could possibly kill an enemy castor. Once that librarian is dead, no more psychic deny, so we don't even need to spend the 8 cabal points anymore to make it undeniable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Finally we have a good battle report where the Tsons won with quite good play from DC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8aO0BIqXaA&ab_channel=SNBattleReports

He did quite well considering he was new to Tsons.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
S
For the Tsons specific secondary, Wrath of Magnus seems auto take as long as opponent is not GK. And against GK, then we bring sorceress powers, which is simply psychic units or characters killed, they don't need to be killed by psychic. They can be killed by shooting and melee and it would still count as well.

False
The objective clearly states "in the psychic phase"

It does not count any melee or shooty kills, and ESPECIALLY against GK, you can't trust psyker kills.

The only reason to EVER take sorceress powers is against some fool who brings a lot of psykers in a non-psyker army, or maybe a mirrior match where the enemy has SO MANY psykers, but not the GK defense.

well, my physical copy of the codex got here today, which was a suprise, to be sure...but a welcome one.

looking though it, a noticed a few things, mostly minor:

our Rhino no longer has the self-repair trick, and cost 5 pts more (presumably to cover the extra AP for its infernal combi-bolter). the wording of the upgrade rules sound like ou can put 2 infernal combi bolters and a havoc launcher on the rhino for only 90pts, which isn't bad, frankly, though i dont have the model yet so i dont know if thats possible without modding as i thought all the weapon options sit on the two forward hatches (id check the store, but its on a queue for the kill team pre-odrers).


as mentioned in previous posts, Tzaangor have the BRAY keyword, but notably the TZAANGOR keyword still exists separate to that. It seems odd to add in that one keyword for just this one unit to fix a problem that could have been fixed without using it, so prehaps this is a presage of other, non-tzaangor beastmen being involved in the rumoured Chaos codecii due in 2022?

 BoomWolf wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
S
For the Tsons specific secondary, Wrath of Magnus seems auto take as long as opponent is not GK. And against GK, then we bring sorceress powers, which is simply psychic units or characters killed, they don't need to be killed by psychic. They can be killed by shooting and melee and it would still count as well.

False
The objective clearly states "in the psychic phase"

It does not count any melee or shooty kills, and ESPECIALLY against GK, you can't trust psyker kills.

The only reason to EVER take sorceress powers is against some fool who brings a lot of psykers in a non-psyker army, or maybe a mirrior match where the enemy has SO MANY psykers, but not the GK defense.

Ah, ok I double checked my codex (just got it). You are right, my apologies. So this is bad against GK. Not sure what this secondary is good for now. Wierd. Ah well, its only GK we can't take wrath of Magnus against. Just about every other faction its good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xerxeskingofking wrote:
well, my physical copy of the codex got here today, which was a suprise, to be sure...but a welcome one.

looking though it, a noticed a few things, mostly minor:

our Rhino no longer has the self-repair trick, and cost 5 pts more (presumably to cover the extra AP for its infernal combi-bolter). the wording of the upgrade rules sound like ou can put 2 infernal combi bolters and a havoc launcher on the rhino for only 90pts, which isn't bad, frankly, though i dont have the model yet so i dont know if thats possible without modding as i thought all the weapon options sit on the two forward hatches (id check the store, but its on a queue for the kill team pre-odrers).

I looked at mine. We can take double inferno bolters. And Havoc Launchers still only cost 5 to add. So we can make a super shooty Rhino with a 5++ for 90 points. It will have 8 inferno combi bolter shots plus d6 havoc launcher shots at 12 inches.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

I looked at mine. We can take double inferno bolters. And Havoc Launchers still only cost 5 to add. So we can make a super shooty Rhino with a 5++ for 90 points. It will have 8 inferno combi bolter shots plus d6 havoc launcher shots at 12 inches.

indeed, though the only issue (now that i can get on the site and look) is that the rhino kits only come with a single combi weapon, so you'd have to kitbash a 2nd one form somewhere onto the model, and then likely green stuff the havoc luancher onto the mortar hatches behind the cupolas (thank got for deamonic flesh-metal mutations, eh?).

maybe a gun form the termies? might be able use the spare left over from the soulreaper termie for it, i'll have to queue again and check the sprues. might be able to bodge that on one cupola, have the 2nd combi on its normal mount with a gunner shooting it, and the havocs firing over their heads form the mortar hatches.

edit: yhea, that looks like it should work, i'll just need to get some green stuff and bodge the parts together.

and i realised that while i might know that the large top mounted hatch on an APC is often called the mortar hatch (after the common practice of mounting a heavy infantry mortar in the passenger area and firing it though the roof as a way to improve the mobility of the motar teams), most other people wouldn't.

so yhea, the big top hatches on APCs are called Mortar hatches. Now you know, and this faction is ALL about knowledge....

xerxeskingofking wrote:
as mentioned in previous posts, Tzaangor have the BRAY keyword, but notably the TZAANGOR keyword still exists separate to that. It seems odd to add in that one keyword for just this one unit to fix a problem that could have been fixed without using it, so prehaps this is a presage of other, non-tzaangor beastmen being involved in the rumoured Chaos codecii due in 2022?

Yeeees ! Slaangors, Nurgors and Khorngors incoming ?

xerxeskingofking wrote:


as mentioned in previous posts, Tzaangor have the BRAY keyword, but notably the TZAANGOR keyword still exists separate to that. It seems odd to add in that one keyword for just this one unit to fix a problem that could have been fixed without using it, so prehaps this is a presage of other, non-tzaangor beastmen being involved in the rumoured Chaos codecii due in 2022?

Because the shaman effects all tzaangors, but only bray get ObjSec and are limited by rubric/scarab count.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Because the shaman effects all tzaangors, but only bray get ObjSec and are limited by rubric/scarab count.

Ooooh...

xerxeskingofking wrote:
indeed, though the only issue (now that i can get on the site and look) is that the rhino kits only come with a single combi weapon, so you'd have to kitbash a 2nd one form somewhere onto the model, and then likely green stuff the havoc luancher onto the mortar hatches behind the cupolas (thank got for deamonic flesh-metal mutations, eh?).

maybe a gun form the termies? might be able use the spare left over from the soulreaper termie for it, i'll have to queue again and check the sprues. might be able to bodge that on one cupola, have the 2nd combi on its normal mount with a gunner shooting it, and the havocs firing over their heads form the mortar hatches.

I bought myself the upper part of a Rubric Marine on ebay for that and just put him in that round hatch. Looks pretty cool as well, too bad i sold that Rhino because it was half painted and i thought i`d never play it.

A double inferno bolter Rhino is actually not too bad I feel. A pain to kill with the 5++. Plus it puts out 8 inferno shots at 12 inches. Plus it can charge two or more units, hold them up in combat, and we can even then spend 1CP on warpflame gargoyles to do d3 MW on each unit in engagement range.

I am kinda keen to try running one in one of my list. Had like 85 points left from building a list and there really wasn't anything else I could get with those kind of points. I might even play it without anyone in it on turn 1. Even empty it can do stuff.

Finally got my Codex at my FLGS !

I was wondering: with the new upgraded force sword, what do you think is the best CC weapon for all our sorcerers now ? The Prosperine Kopesh or the scepter ?