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I think we really got a boost with the balance patch. Our rubrics and terminators were already difficult to damage with small arms now they will be getting 2+ saves v -1 and -2 respectively. I use dreads and it will helps with those as well. Not going to make us top tier but helpful.
xeen wrote: I think we really got a boost with the balance patch. Our rubrics and terminators were already difficult to damage with small arms now they will be getting 2+ saves v -1 and -2 respectively. I use dreads and it will helps with those as well. Not going to make us top tier but helpful.
It definitely improves the strongest units in the codex significantly. Rubrics saving on a 4+ vs Genestealers is nice. As you say, it's not going to push TS to the top tables or anything like that, but the casual games will definitely have a bit more parity.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
We got a big boost from Armor of contempt. Our durability got buffed. All our vbehicles (including hellbrutes) and our terminators and our rubrics got more durable. And all is dust stacks with Armor of contempt as well.
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
And with our MW output, we are hurt less by the same increase in durability that other marine armies got because Mortal wounds bypass armor anyway. Tsons got a very nice buff with the new dataslate.
Eldenfirefly wrote: We got a big boost from Armor of contempt. Our durability got buffed. All our vbehicles (including hellbrutes) and our terminators and our rubrics got more durable. And all is dust stacks with Armor of contempt as well.
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
And with our MW output, we are hurt less by the same increase in durability that other marine armies got because Mortal wounds bypass armor anyway. Tsons got a very nice buff with the new dataslate.
Inferno boltguns and warpflamers did take a bit of a hit against other Armor of Contempt forces, but as has been pointed out soulreapers and (for Scarabs) khopesh swords can make up for that a little bit.
Eldenfirefly wrote: We got a big boost from Armor of contempt. Our durability got buffed. All our vbehicles (including hellbrutes) and our terminators and our rubrics got more durable. And all is dust stacks with Armor of contempt as well.
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
And with our MW output, we are hurt less by the same increase in durability that other marine armies got because Mortal wounds bypass armor anyway. Tsons got a very nice buff with the new dataslate.
Inferno boltguns and warpflamers did take a bit of a hit against other Armor of Contempt forces, but as has been pointed out soulreapers and (for Scarabs) khopesh swords can make up for that a little bit.
How much does this new rule help Magnus?
It doesn't sadly. While durability is an issue for him, the main issue is he really doesn't add anything worth taking. Ahriman and some SOT pretty much do his job better. Magnus is only going to be worth taking if he dropped to like 300 points or gets a new datasheet.
Eldenfirefly wrote: We got a big boost from Armor of contempt. Our durability got buffed. All our vbehicles (including hellbrutes) and our terminators and our rubrics got more durable. And all is dust stacks with Armor of contempt as well.
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
And with our MW output, we are hurt less by the same increase in durability that other marine armies got because Mortal wounds bypass armor anyway. Tsons got a very nice buff with the new dataslate.
Inferno boltguns and warpflamers did take a bit of a hit against other Armor of Contempt forces, but as has been pointed out soulreapers and (for Scarabs) khopesh swords can make up for that a little bit.
How much does this new rule help Magnus?
It doesn't sadly. While durability is an issue for him, the main issue is he really doesn't add anything worth taking. Ahriman and some SOT pretty much do his job better. Magnus is only going to be worth taking if he dropped to like 300 points or gets a new datasheet.
Speaking of Magnus. It's kind of telling when you look at the Tyranid dex that we're one of the few (?) balanced army of 9th. GW went to length to prevent us from healing Magnus while the Nids are over flowing with means to summon and heal models.
Match won against the top1 Astra Militarum this year in my country in the biggest tournament here.
He came with anti-chaos relic, spam cadia vengeance and lost relic of cadia for full rerolls in aoe.
My termis were invincible. I was playing 2 volkite, 20 termis, 3 characters and rubrics/spawns. To the last and stuff.
First turn he shoot everything into my termis in cover and did nothing. Second turn he used all his resources into my army and killed everything but the characters and the termis, for the third round it was too late for him to come back because my termies had enough time to cross the map and block everything in combat.
Termis in cover are invincible. We had real problems with anti-tank weaponry and charges. Now we are reducing AP and this will make the matches more long and with less burst spikes, which benefit us a lot.
Tanking armies like DG will benefit the most of this change but we have the mortal resource that will make us even stronger against DG, as they will have even more troubles killing us and mortal damage is untouched.
I let open the option of including in my army some IK instead of the 2 volkite + exalted with eghleighen, as we need antitank very hard
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
we already were too lol. I played a game against Tau and he managed to kill a single 5-man of rubrics with his whole army
Eldenfirefly wrote: We got a big boost from Armor of contempt. Our durability got buffed. All our vbehicles (including hellbrutes) and our terminators and our rubrics got more durable. And all is dust stacks with Armor of contempt as well.
Like seriously, a Tau army now trying to use out of LOS shooting against our rubrics or terminators in cover? lol They might as well give up. They will hardly scratch us now.
And with our MW output, we are hurt less by the same increase in durability that other marine armies got because Mortal wounds bypass armor anyway. Tsons got a very nice buff with the new dataslate.
Inferno boltguns and warpflamers did take a bit of a hit against other Armor of Contempt forces, but as has been pointed out soulreapers and (for Scarabs) khopesh swords can make up for that a little bit.
How much does this new rule help Magnus?
It doesn't sadly. While durability is an issue for him, the main issue is he really doesn't add anything worth taking. Ahriman and some SOT pretty much do his job better. Magnus is only going to be worth taking if he dropped to like 300 points or gets a new datasheet.
Speaking of Magnus. It's kind of telling when you look at the Tyranid dex that we're one of the few (?) balanced army of 9th. GW went to length to prevent us from healing Magnus while the Nids are over flowing with means to summon and heal models.
Nids have the same clause for regeneration stratagems/mechanics.
Hey all. I was wondering if someone could explain to me what makes a contemptor dread so much better than a hellbrute? They have very similar statlines with the dread coming up with 1 more wound, 2 more inches of movement, and one less attack, but the dread costs a good chunk more and loses you a command point to boot. He also loses the frenzy rule which isn't bad at all. Yet all I see are people taking contempts! Am I missing something?
Unreg1stered wrote: Hey all. I was wondering if someone could explain to me what makes a contemptor dread so much better than a hellbrute? They have very similar statlines with the dread coming up with 1 more wound, 2 more inches of movement, and one less attack, but the dread costs a good chunk more and loses you a command point to boot. He also loses the frenzy rule which isn't bad at all. Yet all I see are people taking contempts! Am I missing something?
Weapon choices, I believe, is what you're missing.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Kebabcito wrote: Match won against the top1 Astra Militarum this year in my country in the biggest tournament here.
He came with anti-chaos relic, spam cadia vengeance and lost relic of cadia for full rerolls in aoe.
My termis were invincible. I was playing 2 volkite, 20 termis, 3 characters and rubrics/spawns. To the last and stuff.
First turn he shoot everything into my termis in cover and did nothing. Second turn he used all his resources into my army and killed everything but the characters and the termis, for the third round it was too late for him to come back because my termies had enough time to cross the map and block everything in combat.
Termis in cover are invincible. We had real problems with anti-tank weaponry and charges. Now we are reducing AP and this will make the matches more long and with less burst spikes, which benefit us a lot.
Tanking armies like DG will benefit the most of this change but we have the mortal resource that will make us even stronger against DG, as they will have even more troubles killing us and mortal damage is untouched.
I let open the option of including in my army some IK instead of the 2 volkite + exalted with eghleighen, as we need antitank very hard
What was your list?
ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+
so, i had a fun 1500 point game against guard last night, my (and his) first game since the dataslate.
ARMIES
Our armies were somewhat extemporised, but for slightly different reasons. Mine was effectively a 1k list bulked up by proxied units doubling up the painted force, while his was a 2k list "cut down" to meet me in the middle at 1500 points. In this, he was somewhat helped by the data slate removing the cost of squad upgrades, which he reckoned let him add the equivalent of about 150-200 points of extras for "free".
5 scarabs, soulreaper+hellfire, rites of colalesance
5 scarabs, soulreaper+hellfire (held in reserve to deep strike)
tannzgor Shaman
Rhino
my secondaries: Psychic interrogation, bring them down, assassinate (i've just realised writing this that i shouldnt have been able to take both them together, but that was what was played, so *shrug* oh well)
His army, custom regt (jury rigged, gunnery experts):
2 tank commanders (one was the warlord, cant remember the trait, some damage reduction one)
6 infantry squads (freshly upgunned by the dataslate giving him free heavy/special weapons with a mix of Autocannons and lascannons)
2 platoon commanders
3 chimeras
2 leman russ.
His secondaries: abhor the witch (naturally), engage on all fronts, FOR THE EMPEROR!
Mission was The Scouring (nachmund mission 23).
THE GAME
He got first turn, and proceeded to delete 8 rubrics off one squad, and blow up the (thankfully empty) rhino, mainly for the VP it got him, as well as thin the tzanngor flocks down a bit. My first turn was a little meh, was able to warpfire a chimera he'd pushing into the center, then shoot the passengers down to a single mad-lad sergeant (passed his morale with a nat 1), as well as cut down a squad trying to action for 3VP.
His second turn was a PAINFUL one for me, as he got 2 leman russes forward, one on each flank (so all 4 quarters engage) blew the damaged rubrics away (2 vp for him), followed by one of the tzanngor squads, and both the infernal master and the shaman that had been hiding behind them (3 VP for the warlord, plus another 3 for the shaman, plus ANOTHER 3 VP for FOR THE EMPEROR!). Having just had my entire left flank shot away, at this point i was thinking i was likely to loose this, given the apparent firepower he had, but about now is when things started to swing my way.
He also brought another (empty) chimera up to the centre, but on my turn 2 I was able to both blow the chimera up, catapult my last two tzanngor into his mad lad sgt on the center objective (move+temporal surge+ charge= very long threat range), and clear away a point holding squad to put him down to just 1 objective held for his round start. I also brought my deep striking scarabs on, but basically used them to replace my left flank and hold the objective there.
Turn 3, he threw another squad onto a point, and in shooting, got the last of my tzanngor, then he concentrated no less than 3 tanks onto one of my scarabs units, who were stood out in the open on the objective...and managed to kill just 3 of them, thanks to armour of contempt (he got one bloke down to a single wound but rites of colesance healed him back to 3, plus the ever reliable cult of time resurrect spell to bring a termie back).
My go, I then throw my Rubics foreword onto the centre point (I already had the full 12 for "control more", but this solidified it), followed up by a spectacular psychic phase where I did no less than 13 mortal wounds into his warlord tank ace, all from Ahriman (doombolt for 3,MW plus a D3 for 3MW for the "d3 extra mortal wounds" cabal points ability, followed by gaze of hate getting 3MW, and a d6 smite for 4), which, combined with a single unrepaired chip wound form earlier, killed his warlord in a storm of witchfire and gleeful delight, and netted me a hefty 6VP for both assassinate and bring it down.
His turn 4 he holds NONE of the objectives, and he scrambles to get something onto points, and manages to get a squad on one and a tank on the other, and after another turn of concentrated fire form 3 tanks, manages to kill the weakened scarab squad (Unwavering phalanx, which i had finally remembered existed, was truly a godsend).
My turn 4, after another 12VP primary, I chip away at one tank and the last chimera (which is hiding in a ruin to try and deny me the VP), for limited effect but blow his objective holding squad (the 2nd to try and hold that position) off the table, leaving him at the start of turn 5 with just 1 objective held. At this point the guard player concedes (its like 22:45, and we both have work in the morning). We didn't do a full count of the VP, but it was at least 15-20VP in my favour.
My (and his) thoughts:
I now realise my secondaries picked were illegal, but neither of us caught that at the time. I'd likely have gone for "to the last" instead ( was mulling it at the time, but plopped for assassinate instead), which would have got me 5 VP for the one surviving scarab squad...which is a VP more than I actually got for assassinate, and he wasn't particularly conservative with his characters because of the threat of assassinate, so it didn't matter too much in the end.
Psychic Interrogation was a real workhorse for me this game, as i was able to just constantly cast it, first at his warlord, then on a platoon commander hiding behind a squad, which in the end forced him to move the commander away form the units it was supporting to try and deny me the VP. I think I got 9VP off it, but could have gotten 12 with ease. Against someone with a lot of characters and no deny the witch, it was really easy to spare a cast to get those VP.
Armour of contempt was ridiculously strong, especially on the scarabs. In 4 turns of gameplay, at no point did my Scarabs (who never had cover saves due to the layout not allowing it while objective camping) have to make an invunerable save. They were on 4+ or better the whole game, and so absorbed a stupid amount of firepower (the full, undivided attention of 3 leman russ tanks for 2 turns straight, and they ALMOST survived that!).
My first unit of rubrics died pretty early on, but the second squad was able to sit in cover on the centre objective, with Weaver of Fates giving them and effective 2+/4++ save (or 1+ effective against d1 weapons) and basically not get shot at all game, while scouring his objective holding infantry off the table, as my opponent decided that the scarabs were a more sensible target.
As said before, the free upgrades for the infantry squad freed up about 150-200 points for the Guard, which is not insubstantial.
We both forgot about hammer of the emperors auto-wounding on 6s until late in his turn 2 shooting, but it was reasonably useful. He said he was generating a few lasgun wounds more than normal, but his list wasnt built to exploit it properly (being a tank list with supporting infantry). talking about it while packing up, he reckoned that it could be powerful if you built around it, concentrating on high volume, lower strength fire to fish for 6s, and just try to bully though armour saves by sheer weight of dice. as it was, it was a nice enough boost to his shooting, but not overwhelming, and most of his damage output was still form the tanks and other "conventional" firepower units.
I tend to run Ahriman in a "boomstick" role with lots of witchfire spells, but this game has been his best showing as such. his mortal wounds blew up a russ and a chimera, and by doing so freed up the shooting to concentrate on clearing his infantry off objectives. Those 13MW were a bit of fluke in terms of lucky rolling, but still, taking a 14 wound tank form "paint scratched" to "burning hulk" was a hell of a swing, arguably the turning point of the game.
overall, a really fun and enjoyable game, with some funny moments, a few real swings, and a satisfying win for me!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/22 07:40:20
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Thanks for the write up. Yea I think TS and DG are the two armies that will really benefit from AoC as it stacks on our already pretty good defense. Personally I don't think AoC is going to rocket any marine army up to top tier, but I think this does balance the game better, although for TS I would rather lose AoC then get any point increases. I have not used the new rules yet as I am on an Eldar kick, and considering I just spent $1000 or so getting back into them I am going to play them for a while.
Also, hopefully for the next balance slate toward the end of the year I hope they give us a few improvements to some of the less used spells. I mean right now Time and Duplicity are the only 2 cults ever used, and there are 9. Changing things like giving full re-roll wounds (basically doom) to the Cult that is re-roll 1 to wound, or the power that lets you roll a D6 and replace a dice roll being turned into you just get a 6 to replace a dice roll would go a long way to making those two cults more viable (trust me Doom is awesome). Also a few of the base powers glowing up, like the -1 strengthen to shooting malediction also including a -1ap or damage, or the +6 inch to range including an extra -1 ap or extra shot, or the warp flame power being +1 strength to any inferno or warpfire weapon, not just warpfire. These small changes could really add some extra punch and maybe make it so not every TS army looks really similar (although part of that is the lack of datasheets in the book, like come on could we get another fast attack or two?).
You guys should definitely try out some Scarabs in the post AoC world. My friend has been playing more and more of them... out of Cult of Time. The things are impossible to shift, and unless you kill like 3... there's a good chance you did nothing to them. AoC+All is Dust is a REALLY powerful combination, and I'd argue it is the best interaction with the new rule.
Give it a whirl...
Honestly, short of bright/dark lances and non-psychic phase mortal wound spam... the things are nigh impossible to hurt.
I overcharged plasma and we both marveled at how useless it was. With the stratagem to reduce damage received by 1... it was effectively AP-1 1D on Terminators They laughed at my attempts. Didn't feel good, but man is it spicy! I was hoping to see a bit more from the internet community on the subject, just to see if my experience against you guys was just an outlier.
They now confirmed that Chaos armies will be able to take a dreadblade auxiliary detachment and keep pure codex bonuses. I like the new big knight model but did not want to start a knight army so this is perfect. Is anyone else excited to use this rule with TS? I think it could fill a big hole we have with high power anti-tank and/or adding a very strong melee option. Three wardogs in one detachment is also really good for the same reason as it basically allows us to take better vehicles for a CP tax. What are people's thoughts on using this? (assume the knights won't get access to strats etc.).
xeen wrote: Is anyone else excited to use this rule with TS?
I think it's utterly useless drivel foisted on us by GW to sell a few extra knights. No synergy, can't be buffed, no strats for it, there are better places to invest CP and points in my opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 19:42:47
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
xeen wrote: They now confirmed that Chaos armies will be able to take a dreadblade auxiliary detachment and keep pure codex bonuses. I like the new big knight model but did not want to start a knight army so this is perfect. Is anyone else excited to use this rule with TS? I think it could fill a big hole we have with high power anti-tank and/or adding a very strong melee option. Three wardogs in one detachment is also really good for the same reason as it basically allows us to take better vehicles for a CP tax. What are people's thoughts on using this? (assume the knights won't get access to strats etc.).
I am excited to try ! Although, these days, hellbrutes are looking better than ever with the armour of contempt buff. Cheap, yet effective. Not sure if the lone knight will get to use any strategems or such. Without any strateegems, relics and such, it will be effective. Visually, it would make an awesome lynchpin in the army though.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Although, these days, hellbrutes are looking better than ever with the armour of contempt buff. Cheap, yet effective.
Testing Land Raiders this weekend, but this is probably the next unit on my list I want to experiment with, primarily melee helbrutes.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
Chaos Knight Leaks are out and it doesn't look too bad!
While there is some stuff you can't take with a dreadblade there are still options to get a bit of customisation and keep Cabalistic Rituals.
With Tzeentch there is 1 favour that nets you a 4++ after you killed a total of 10 wounds or you could add a 5+++ Psychic power if you want to go defensive.
Warp Storm Discipline is ok with 1,2 good powers but nothing gamebreaking or essential.
Feels more like a flavour thing and I guess I'd rather go for the Favour that earns you a 4++ (melee & ranged!) & it also gets to do MW's on saving throws of 6 like the Kastelan Robots Shield.
It's 35 points for a Despoiler though.
Cheapest Dakka Despoiler with 2 guns is 475 points, adding another 20 if you take the same gun twice + the Favor of the Dark Gods Upgrades.
Most expensive loadout (2 Gatlings + Carapace Gun + Favor) goes up to 600.
Just reading through the possible combinations. Dreadblades get Fell Bonds which can be used to get Household or Daemonic Surges (+1 to wound sounds good here) as well but you can't get all combined.
I guess it depends on the possible combinations / sneaky relic / wl trait tricks (if any) if taking 1 Dreadblade is worth it, especially if you compare it to something like 3 Fiends / 2-3 Defilers / Vehicle / Daemon Engine of your choice you could take instead.
Maybe loosing Cabalistic Rituals for more Knights is an option as well, there is definitely plenty to toy around with.
I think triple helverin wardogs will be the best way to go dreadblade wise. Thousand Sons already have staying power and plentiful low/mid strength shooting and mortal wound output, so the big knights are less relevant on that basis. We're mostly looking for long range AT shooting - 3 Helverins cost about the same as 1 of the big knights but bring a lot more dakka to the table.
The thermal spear + chainsword loadout is IMO a trap, its avg damage output in shooting is generally lower than the Helverin loadout until it gets within 12" of a target, and its melee damage output against vehicles is more or less the same as the Helverins shooting damage output. It only really starts to beat the Helverin loadout once you're up against T8 targets but as the meta currently stands those aren't super common and we can spam enough mortal wounds to handle those types of targets where/when we need to (even then the Helverins ain't too shabby if they focus fire on such a target). It also doesn't bring much to the table melee-wise against more generalized targets with that sweep profile, you're looking at ~4.4 dead guardsmen or ~1.2 dead marines in melee (assuming the profile hasn't degraded by then) per wardog. A unit of 5 Chaos Spawn is ~40pts cheaper but will kill ~6.7 guardsmen or ~3.3 marines - and thats before you account for the benefits of mutated beyond reason or Fated Mutation or other buffs which can amp up the spawns ability dramatically. SOTs also outperform in melee, a unit of 5 will avg ~4.4 dead marines or ~6.8 guardsmen, so not really seeing any point in trying to sweep with that chainsword vs other tools already available to the faction. Its basically a marginally better multimelta helbrute that can choose between the fist and scourge profile each turn.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Does the terminator sorcerer have any place in the army? I've tried to fit him into a niche but it really seems like he's just a slightly more expensive sorcerer. He's not even usable in melee unless he wants to give up his combimelta for a khopesh.
I mean... its a Sorceror... but harder to kill (and an extra source of a meltagun in an army thats critically short on high powered spot-removal weapons). Also, swapping the Force stave for a Force Axe isn't a terrible play for melee, and lets you keep the combi-melta.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I have played the terminator sorcerer a few times as I have a nicely painted one. Basically he is not worth it. He is a bit more survivable but if your characters are being shot/attacked usually that means you are in a bad way all ready. The extra inferno bolster shots are ok but not worth the points. If you want to DS him it is ok but then you lose cast turn 1. The best load out I used was give him the battle psyker and replace the staff with the one that is -4 ap and he can be semi-decent killy. But even then he was not great and points are probably better invested elsewhere.
As said infernal master for buffs. I also use hellbrutes with LC or MM for AT. I also have a leviathan but he is more fun choice. (And converted to be TS so looks amazing).
Had 3 Games with AoC so far and I am hyped to play more TS again after a long time focussing on Orks & DG.
Have a tournament next month and I'm trying to do some fine tuning for my list.
Generally I love to play infantry heavy which happens to be quite solid right now!
Squads of 5 Rubrics with Soulreaper and Icon have been fantastic, as have of course Scarabs.
My core so far is:
That leaves a bit over 200 points which I am not 100% sure about.
I definitely want to go mono detachment, especially if the new CP rules kick in before the tournament.
Units I took for the remaining points have been the slot-free Termi Sorcerer with psi-action Relic and WL trait, Flamer Rubrics, Spawns and occasionally 1 vehicle of choice.
With nids on the rise I think Spawns might be a good cheap unit for screening and soaking up MW's.
Have been running a squad of 5 and 3 x 1 as well with both variants having it's pros and cons.
I think the orrey Relic is a great pick against nids and a few other things, so I was thinking a cheap Shaman as alternative to the slower Termi Sorcerer.
Flamer Rubrics have been varying from disappointing to fantastic and are a great unit to have in combination with Master Misinformator and Crystal. But I think a squad of 5 is enough as a backup tool to have especially for late game trickery and to keep the opponent castled up so you can't take away home Objectives or kill isolated characters. The output of a fully buffed squad of 10 flamers is pretty cool but they don't always get their points back. They are a good psychological tool to have though.
I might go for 10 + 10 + 5 Scarabs but I kinda prefer to have 1-2 more other utility tools at hand.
Single vehicles are ok but tend to get focused down fast and if their 1 shooting phase fails they did nothing.
Was thinking about a Mutalith which has some nice abilities and strats but sadly I have none painted.
Anyone used it recently?
Have been using a Daemon Prince now and then but since the other 3 HQs are set that means a 2 CP patrol tax.
I love the model which is quite solid but honestly I think the CP are too important, especially with the new CA incoming.
I guess my favourite right now is a Shaman and a few Spawns which means no flamers unless I make the 4th Rubric squad a Flamer Squad.
Other alternative would be a 5th Soulreaper / Icon Squad and ether a Shaman or 2-3 single Spawns.
[1,800] Chaos Knights | 
[1,250] Thousand Sons | 
[1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | 
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
Orks 5000p 
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
3000 
Daemons: 
Orks: 
IG: 
Ogres: 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts