Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is something that crossed my mind. In game right now, Cadia has been destroyed. It's gone. The Cadian kits meanwhile, are mostly ancient. The second hand market is full of them, stymining fresh Imperial Guard sales. The Catachans aren't a viable replacement, as the tongue in cheek joy of Rambo vanished amongst kids thirty years ago.

Are the Death Korps the new replacement? They've got the base infantry kit done and out. All they'd need now to match the Cadians would be a Heavy Weapons sprue, a Command Sprue, and a small vehicle crew sprue to slip into the tank boxes (they've done that sort of repackaging before). The wide-spread appeal of the Death Korps has been proven by strong Forgeworld sales, and it would be a way of updating one of the oldest armies.

Do you think this is a solid possibility?

nope

As I see it there's a few possible options

1) GW could well replace cadians with DKoK. Cadians always had, to me, a slight "american" look to them and more like Vietnam than the more WW1/2 asthetics of the tanks and general lore around the IG.
DKoK play into that WW1 visual style almost perfectly and their solid sales and popularity from FW shows that they are potentially profitable.

On that score I could well see GW replace one for the other and have DKoK become the new "standard" in a Galaxy at War where Cadia has fallen and, whilst there are many still around, their numbers won't replenish fast enough for the Imperium.


2) GW could be doing to IG what they sort of did with Slaves to Darkness through Warcry. Releasing multiple themed Imperial Guard style troops through Killteam and the like. They could have one or two boxes per "regiment" with a different theme. Then in the rules have them all be similar but slightly different with the option to field only one regiment or a mixed unit.
They have done this in the past but its not been something they've done since the metal era of models.


I could see one box with all in; or two boxes, one being infantry perhaps with a banner and leader solo models; then a second box with heavy support guns and the like. Throw in a few decals like they do with Genstealer Cults for marking vehicles and you've got yourself some nice themed troops.
Three boxes if they brought back Rough Riders

3) DKoK are a one off through Killteam and whilst some might gather up as many as they can, GW doesn't intend them to replace regular Cadians in the game.




Note whilst Rambo might not be around the idea of hunky guys doing insane military stuff in an action flick very much is still around. It's just moved to different actors. Catachans I would expect to get replaced with more updated sculpts and we might even see them fleshed out a little more. They've been a long standing staple of the army and hold a solid position in the lore.

The latest rumours would indicate Cadians will stay and even Karskins coming back.

Death Korps will exist alongside.

Cadia being gone doesn't effect the ability to produce more Cadian Regiments. There are thousands of active Regiments in the galaxy, loads of Cadian "colonies" where Regiments are posted for garrison duty or indeed have been given that world as settlement rights.
The Cadian gear is also the "standard" for many newly raised Regiments which are often also trained by Cadian Veterans and Officers.
Plus Cadians literally just got the upgrade sprue for their kit. Would've been nice if it was optional and didn't raise the price by £11 but there's no way Cadians are going anywhere any time soon.

No.

I don't think so. I still think that cadians are more popular than DKoK. The cadian guardsman is what most people associate to the classic Guardsman and I can't see GW forcing this to change for no reason. It's a part of what makes 40k, 40k.

They are probably going the warcry route, another indication for that is the catachan teaser.

 Ketara wrote:
This is something that crossed my mind. In game right now, Cadia has been destroyed. It's gone. The Cadian kits meanwhile, are mostly ancient. The second hand market is full of them, stymining fresh Imperial Guard sales. The Catachans aren't a viable replacement, as the tongue in cheek joy of Rambo vanished amongst kids thirty years ago.

Are the Death Korps the new replacement? They've got the base infantry kit done and out. All they'd need now to match the Cadians would be a Heavy Weapons sprue, a Command Sprue, and a small vehicle crew sprue to slip into the tank boxes (they've done that sort of repackaging before). The wide-spread appeal of the Death Korps has been proven by strong Forgeworld sales, and it would be a way of updating one of the oldest armies.

Do you think this is a solid possibility?

Of replacement? No.
Of being an alternative range? Yes.

The Cadian upgrade frame seems to have been a setup not unlike the third sprue for the Krieg...something that lets you run them for Kill Team.
For those unaware of what I'm referring to, from what has been consistently shown in unboxings and the like?

This sprue is a standalone sprue for the DKoK. The Kommandos comparatively are 3 sprues that are done together(you can see attachment lugs on the sprue pictures).

It seems to indicate that the sprue in question is an "add-on" of sorts. It doesn't seem to remove any options from the DKoK sprue(there's still a medic, the special weapons, the sergeant gear, and the vox-caster) but it raises all kinds of questions about if the Cadian sprue is currently a "stopgap" until a full kit revamp as KT lets you have a lot of special weapon options which aren't all showcased in the main box.

Is GW going to replace Cadians with Krieg? Doubtful. Am I going to replace my Cadians with Krieg? Abso-flocken-lutely!

They just released an updated Cadian box, they are going nowhere.

Speaking of, has anyone done a side-by-side of the Cadians and nuDKoK? I'd assume them to be mostly interchangeable/the same scale but I didn't see much in the few minutes' searching I've done thus far.

 jaredb wrote:
They just released an updated Cadian box, they are going nowhere.

Not really an "updated Cadian box"...just a Cadian box with a new sprue in there.

Minor point to make, but it is important. That sprue can be produced without needing to keep the current Cadians in circulation. The parts have actually looked better on some spare GSC Neophytes+Orlocks I've got laying about than they have on the Cadians themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 waefre_1 wrote:
Speaking of, has anyone done a side-by-side of the Cadians and nuDKoK? I'd assume them to be mostly interchangeable/the same scale but I didn't see much in the few minutes' searching I've done thus far.

They are not. The Cadians are funky oldscale proportions while the DKoK are more inline with the GSC/Skitarii proportions.

Clearly nope.

I think GW will continue to put out some of the 'legacy' regiments as Kill Teams.

It's an easy way to pad boxes for sets and sate those that are crying out for new sculpts for the older models without needing to release new kits for all the vehicles and such.

They could even use them to release other guard regiments with an interesting design that art exists for, but are probably too limited in scope for a full range.

I definitely want to see a Last Chancers kill team, especially as they released a Gaunts Ghosts box.

The Gaunt's Ghosts box was tied in to a novella.

One of the more interesting rumors/concepts floating out there for Guard is that <Regiment> might be going away in favor of a system that is more <Regiment Type>, with the current "Big Name" regiments as units(so a couple of Death Korps units, couple of Catachan units, etc) and Officers being different based on the Big Name Regiment they're from.

If they go that route? I'd be super stoked. Guard have never really represented the whole "army group" mentality that the force are supposed to be representative of.

Being able to take a Jr Officer from the DKoK, a few DKoK squads, a Catachan Officer+some Catachans, while having a Senior Officer from Cadia and the bulk of the army as Cadians? That'd be kinda cool.

 Ketara wrote:
This is something that crossed my mind. In game right now, Cadia has been destroyed. It's gone. The Cadian kits meanwhile, are mostly ancient. The second hand market is full of them, stymining fresh Imperial Guard sales. The Catachans aren't a viable replacement, as the tongue in cheek joy of Rambo vanished amongst kids thirty years ago.

Are the Death Korps the new replacement? They've got the base infantry kit done and out. All they'd need now to match the Cadians would be a Heavy Weapons sprue, a Command Sprue, and a small vehicle crew sprue to slip into the tank boxes (they've done that sort of repackaging before). The wide-spread appeal of the Death Korps has been proven by strong Forgeworld sales, and it would be a way of updating one of the oldest armies.

Do you think this is a solid possibility?

I think so. Gw knows theyre popular, and theyve got at least 2 new kits coming based on artwork in the ork codex (death riders and command squad, as theres a very big flag a krieger is holding) that, plus theres gotta be a heavy weapon kit coming, primes them to be the new posterchild regiment. After all, theyll be close to the same cost as the "new" cadian box, and I cant imagine many people will want to buy cadians or catachan plastics when those new krieg models are on the same shelf for around the same price.

They also still have a planet, are known for raising a ton of regiments, and are a very grimdark regiment, which makes them perfect for the flagship line. Im sure the cadian line will limp along, but given all they got was an upgrade sprue their time as flagship models has passed.

My only real unknown is are we going to see updated catachan infantry box as well. The new catachan character models are great, and the heavy weapon squad and command box are pretty decent kits. All you need is a new infantry squad and you could give the Catachan line a pretty significant update.

I'd love it, mainly because the DKoK are really the only regiment I like enough to go through the labour of painting a force.

I do wonder if cadians will be remade, they have the 'upgrade' sprue for the helmets, maybe that will be the cadian sprue and they will finally, actually make multi-regiment kits (With some element of redesign of regiments required). A re-work of the cadian kit in terms of torso, legs etc is required though, they are so dated now.

Catachans as fun and great as they are in concept could actually go though, I'd sacrifice them for a fully fleshed out DKoK release.

I've said multiple times though, GW can evidently afford to pay for and churn out multiple human based factions box sets (warcry and necromunda), they should do the same for guard, 4-6 different regiment choices would be amazing.

Cadians look like Cadians because of their equipment, which is a commonly produced set. Whatever Forgeworld was supplying Cadia is now just supplying other planets instead.

Nah. The original rumours from Nov 2020 of plastic DKOK mentioned new Cadians at the time, which has been reiterated only a couple of days ago. They're just an alternative

No. Cadian s will remain and likely keep their current sculpts for another 10 years at least. The recent Kill Team will probably be no different to when we saw Traitor Guard in Blackstone Fortress and I suspect will end at that. We have the Ghosts, the death korps infantry squad and an upgrade sprue - that’s probably our lot for 9th edition.

Yes, Cadians will be replaced by DKoK as the poster boys, but not removed from sales... yet. Just like Primaris vs Midget Marines.

GW loves money more than anything and the Kriegers will be too popular to ignore, they'll have no choice but to fill out the roster.

Cadians are doomed to irrelevancy thanks to that terrible upgrade sprue. They aren't getting the range refresh they desperately need, instead GeeDubs will milk that 20 year old box for all it's worth (with a fresh price increase to boot)

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yes, Cadians will be replaced by DKoK as the poster boys, but not removed from sales... yet. Just like Primaris vs Midget Marines.

With old midget marines getting 2 wounds just like primaris, and midget marine characters getting new sculpts (Crowe?) and rumors of redone midget marine kits to be better scaled, do people still largely think midget marines are going to be removed from the market?

The only thing terrible about the upgrade sprue is that wasn't released separately.

I do suspect that sooner or later there will be a change to the design of the asta militarum. Cadians, catachans and even to an extend DKOK are all sorta, generic human peeps with largely generic military gear. Not much of them really ties them to this one setting which GW is very much trying to move away from. Protecting their IP like Sméagol with the one ring.

But on the other hand, I guess that's sort of the point of cadians. They could be literally any sci fi military force. Catachans come from any jungle action movie. Krieg would look at home with any WW1 movie.

 ph34r wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yes, Cadians will be replaced by DKoK as the poster boys, but not removed from sales... yet. Just like Primaris vs Midget Marines.

With old midget marines getting 2 wounds just like primaris, and midget marine characters getting new sculpts (Crowe?) and rumors of redone midget marine kits to be better scaled, do people still largely think midget marines are going to be removed from the market?

You missed this part which is very important:

Goose LeChance wrote:
GeeDubs will milk that 20 year old box for all it's worth (with a fresh price increase to boot)

Rules and Lore don't matter to GW, they can be changed on a whim. Giving them 2W is about making sales now. We'll see how much support the midgets get when 10th inevitably arrives. Crowe was a low effort single model packed in a FOMO box of old GK. It doesn't mean much of anything, other than GW's marketing team has mastered their craft.

Redone marines is interesting, are you talking about HH or WH40k? It's entirely possible that the mini marines could be rescaled and GW can sell everyone a marine army for the 3rd time. Primaris units are a poor replacement for proper Tac Squads after all, but it would still mean the removal of current marines.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yes, Cadians will be replaced by DKoK as the poster boys, but not removed from sales... yet. Just like Primaris vs Midget Marines.

With old midget marines getting 2 wounds just like primaris, and midget marine characters getting new sculpts (Crowe?) and rumors of redone midget marine kits to be better scaled, do people still largely think midget marines are going to be removed from the market?

You missed this part which is very important:

Goose LeChance wrote:
GeeDubs will milk that 20 year old box for all it's worth (with a fresh price increase to boot)

Rules and Lore don't matter to GW, they can be changed on a whim. Giving them 2W is about making sales now. We'll see how much support the midgets get when 10th inevitably arrives. Crowe was a low effort single model packed in a FOMO box of old GK. It doesn't mean much of anything, other than GW's marketing team has mastered their craft.

Redone marines is interesting, are you talking about HH or WH40k? It's entirely possible that the mini marines could be rescaled and GW can sell everyone a marine army for the 3rd time. Primaris units are a poor replacement for proper Tac Squads after all, but it would still mean the removal of current marines.

I believe the rumors I am thinking of were something along the lines of, after the new upscale horus heresy beakie marines, they will eventually go around to all the other formerly midget marines like the mk6 beakie, and give them the ol’ stretch to make the midget marine scale extinct and replaced by true-scale-firstborn that are a hair shorter than primaris.

EDIt: with the end goal being as you say, selling everyone a marine army for the 3rd time.

Imperial guard is the kind of army GW could re issue every few years with a new regiment and sell loads of models. Current is casual, then DKOK, then vallhalans, then something new they made up and so on. And if you weren’t around at the time don’t worry a limited release will be out in 3 years of the models we released 3 years ago at 1.5x the price

I do think Cadians are going to be treated like first-born marines. They'll have some minor updates, maybe some additional sprues with special/heavy weapons, items, accessories, customisation options (heads, arms, etc) added to the Command Squad and Heavy Weapon Squad boxes.

Maybe some new characters, maybe a kasrkin box if they bring back Grenadiers. That's about it.

All the new focus will be on putting out a fresh regiment, probably DKOK in plastic like we've seen with the Killteam box, and all the DKOK artwork being pushed recently.

I also think we're going to get some kind of Scion force. Perhaps as a mono-codex again like 6th or 7th edition, I forgot which one it was. There's been a ton of art and "army on parade" photos for them recently as well.

The updated Cadian Shock Troops kit has all the options available to an Infantry Squad in the current codex. It lacks only a few specialist items available on the Kreig Veterans kit in Kill Team: Octarius, most which are optional and can largely be ignored. Or this kit could be the basis for the new Veterans squad options in the future 9th Edition Codex Astra Militarum.

So I doubt Cadians are going anywhere. It would have been nice if they had updated the whole Shock Troopers kit to better proportions like the new Kreig, but they had all the backward compatibility with the Command Squad and Heavy Weapons Squad they had to keep going.

Jarms48 wrote:
...a mono-codex again like 6th or 7th edition...

I feel bad saying this, but I really hope not. Unless GW gives Scions more support (more minis, more differentiation from the Guard), there's no point and it just weakens both the Guard (since we can't have Grenadier-type forces if Grenadiers are in another 'dex) and the Scions (since they lack a lot of options and have to choose between a) not having effective answers to certain threats or b) having to dip back into the Guard 'dex, at which point we have to wonder why they are a separate force...).