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Title.

Which Undivided Chaos Legion would you like to have it's own, full-fledged codex, with unique units, named characters, and lots of special rules?

Night Lords, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Black Legion, and Alpha Legion, are the legions I'm referring to.

No I don't care if they're "too disparate or shattered" to count as a legion or have a Codex, this is just a happy little wishlist poll.
No I don't care if you don't think that any of them 'should', this is just a happy little wishlist poll.
No I don't care if GW will never ever make this happen, this is just a happy little wishlist poll.

We clear? Cool, now tell me what you'd like to see in your chosen Legion Codex.

None of them.

Put 'em all in one Codex. Leave full Codices to the Cult Legions.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
None of them.

Put 'em all in one Codex. Leave full Codices to the Cult Legions.

Well that's not a very fun or imaginative answer.

I like having expansions and options, but at the same time I'm wary of having a million different books for every little thing (and that's before we get to GW's DLC policies).

There's a whole swathe of Marine Chapters that have books that don't need them (White Scars, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Sallies, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists), and I wouldn't want to see a further batch of equally shallow/content-lite books come out for the Chaos Legions.

A single book that covers the non-Cult Legions would be perfectly fine, allow for books that aren't just some rules, relics, strats and a single special character, and it means you could do one for non-Cult, one for Renegades, 4 Cult books, and the core CSM book.

Voted Iron Warriors and Nightlords because they're usually badly represented by the CSM Codex. The CSM Codex always represents Word Bearers and Black Legion, so a mishmash of crazy lunatics that want to serve the Chaos gods. GW even literally said in the 3.5 codex that the baseline was for Black Legion. This was also true later on, but since 6th Edition GW always released separate Black Legion rules, I never got why, but that makes BL the most probable choice.
With Nightlords not really serving Chaos they could get their own fluffy rules. Doesn't have to be a whole Codex, but a nice supplement with proper fluff and loads of Crusade rules would be nice. I

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I like having expansions and options, but at the same time I'm wary of having a million different books for every little thing (and that's before we get to GW's DLC policies).

There's a whole swathe of Marine Chapters that have books that don't need them (White Scars, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Sallies, Raven Guard and Imperial Fists), and I wouldn't want to see a further batch of equally shallow/content-lite books come out for the Chaos Legions.

A single book that covers the non-Cult Legions would be perfectly fine, allow for books that aren't just some rules, relics, strats and a single special character, and it means you could do one for non-Cult, one for Renegades, 4 Cult books, and the core CSM book.

In my image of a perfect GW release, all the Space Marines would be crammed into one book and all the Chaos Marines would be crammed into one book, and that would allow all the other armies in 40k a lot more time to shine.

Alas, this is a fun poll to say "What if? What if we were getting a separate Undivided Codex/Supplement for at least one of the other Legions to help flesh them out?" Like I said in the OP, this is just a fun wishlist post, don't need to think too hard about the rest of GW's releases or what an extra Legion book would do to the faction as a whole.

I personally think Night Lords could do with getting their own book. There's a lot of fear-based tactics that are never really fleshed out in anything other than a weak morale phase. The Night Lords already have things like Raptors and Warp Talons that would be great, but other things like Terror Squads that have special deepstriking mechanics. Few tanks, but key daemon engines would be great for the force when they go to war, but I definitely see it being infantry-heavy, with a few units devoted to things like demolitions of key targets, and others that are more chaotic that revel in the fight and the fear that they can cause. Lots of potential for fun, characterful rules and units.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
None of them.

Put 'em all in one Codex. Leave full Codices to the Cult Legions.

This. In fact, I think the two separate codecies should be re-folded in.

The last thing the game needs is more subfaction-faction bloat.



I also think supplements should absolutely go away and there should just be one space marine book, and one CSM book.

Well in that case the answer is "all of them", because I don't think any Legion deserves it any more than any other Legion.

If we're talking a completely independent codex like Grey Knights, Death Guard or Thousand Sons, then the answer has to be "none of them". Because existing players of that legion will inevitably find half their existing models are no longer usable and they have to buy a whole bunch of new stuff to make their army legal again. Making existing players buy new product is the main purpose of releasing a new codex, from GW's point of view.

So a new Night Lords codex (for example) might give me access to a new elite Terminator squad with cool lion-skull shoulder pads and chainglaives, a new type of super-Raptors with guns that flay the skin off their targets, and some awesome character models... but also make my existing Chosen and Terminators illegal, change the heavy weapon options of my basic CSM squads because someone at GW thinks Night Lords shouldn't use missile launchers or lascannons for some reason, and make all my aspiring champions have to swap their power weapons for chainglaives (only available in a new £39.50 Night Lords CSM Squad kit). They'd also probably lose access to Possessed, Daemon Princes, Forgefiends etc, which wouldn't affect my army, but some NL players do use those things and the fluff has always been that the "no Chaos stuff ever" attitude isn't anywhere near universal across the legion.

The losses would inevitably outweigh the gains for anyone who doesn't already play the legion in question exactly the way the writer of the new codex envisions it.

On the other hand, 'supplementary' codexes like the Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, etc. (i.e. a couple extra characters/units without losing anything) would be fine. But then you'd have to do one for every legion IMO.

If we're doing non-serious answers (codex rather than codex supplement, per the title?), then I guess Word Bearers because I play them and would never complain about more lore, art, and a possible upgrade sprue/character/unit for my own army. We're the original Chaos Space Marines, after all.

I voted for all, though, because I don't think any is more deserving than another, and as with the others above would prefer none receive one. Just give us a good codex & a supplement: traitor legions and we'll be fine. If we were trying to make arguments based on actual merit it would probably go to one of AL/IW/NL as the legions who stereotypically (though not always) gravitate away from overt chaos worship.

Man, the buzzkill in this thread!

I chose Alpha Legion; I'd like to see more interesting uses for cults, and I think the Crusade content could be fabulous.

For the record though, I am with you HBMC- I'd rather have WE and EC than any.

And Inquisitor Lord Kat, if you really ARE an Inquisitor Lord, why you wanna do 2/3 of your chambers militant like that?

I’d like to see all the traitor legions have their own codex. There’s already a bunch of FW models that GW can convert to plastic or whatever.

I think I’d go with alpha legion as they would be most fun, how cool if it turned out that one of the units in your opponent’s army we’re actually alpha legion operatives

I always had this idea for a AL codex that was reversible, if you read it from from your back they were traitors and if you read it back to front they were loyalists

If not Alpha Legion the Word Bearers, I mean they started it all, right. Although they could be part of the demons codex

I'd like to see all of them done as a codex supplement.

I would love to see my beloved Chaos Marines have 1 large codex for the non specific god aligned and to really have room to show off each legion.

Aka - Night lords, Raptors are troops, IW's get HAvocs or maybe can take Basilisks from IG (Damn it I miss using my old customised IW basilisks...) and Black legion can take Chosen as troops, OR terminators if Abbadon is on the field.

So much potential room for growth and customising to make us feel like a real threat of a army, and not just Codex "SLaanesh oblits W/ friends"

I don't particularly think there's any good reason to make a whole Codex for any CSM forces other than DG/TS/WE/EC.

BUT, since I've already built an Iron Warriors force back in 4th(?) ed.... I guess I'll vote IW.

No more, there are other chaos factions deserving far more attention than the legions.

it also is already painfull for the cycle of codex updates to pass during every edition, no need for more Marines just with spikes, and i say this as an ardent supporter of spiky marines.
It would be far more preferable to have a customizable well balanced codex for chaos marines.

If the loyalists got codexes for all 9 from the 1st founding and BTs are getting one for themselves, it's only fair Chaos gets the same (with Huron's 'legion' getting the BT treatment)

None of the unmarked Legions should be getting a Codex or a Supplement.
From an aesthetic perspective, the core units are going to look the same for each unmarked Legion barring a few minor details. Compare that to the marked Legions where the core units have distinct visual cues that mark them out clearly from their undivided brethren (except Noise Marines.... for now).
From a cost/worth perspective, none of the Legions have any close to a considerable amount of units or characters to justify a £20-25 price tag. 1 new thing each would just be a sad addition and would likely just fill a role already filled by another unit. Getting a potential psychic discipline and Crusade Rules alongside reprinted PA content for what would likely be the 2nd or possibly 3rd time isn't worth it.
The CSM Codex should at the very least contain the unmarked Legions and the Renegade Chapter rules/units then maybe a character for each Legion.

@ OP:

Twenty years too late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ OP:

Twenty years too late.

Voted for Alpha Legion, though I very much agree there doesn't need to be a full codex for every chapter. Especially true for undivided Chaos Astartes, which often have very little to set them apart. I'm still unclear what is the Black Legion's "thing", apart from being Abaddon's chapter. Or the Word Bearers' "thing", apart from being the first legion to fall to Chaos.

If it doesn't have at least a few unique units, it shouldn't have its own codex. Especially since other armies than Marines don't get the privilege of subfaction codexes. Can you imagine a Catachan codex? A Biel-Tan codex? A Hive Fleet Leviathan codex?

Well, if Space Marines have them then...fair's fair.

And while we're being so fair, how about separate supplements for the main Craftworlds and Ynnari?

The WB thing is supposed to be Daemons and not running away because fanaticism. The BL are supposed to be lightning strike attacks and speartip assaults, less Cultist spam, and more Termies and Chosen. Neither do their "thing" well in any way.

My rule for subfaction codexes is that they should only exist if its a subfaction that cannot be played properly without cutting out major parts of the original codex. Thousand Sons and Death Guard don't even have normal Chaos Space Marines. I don't think the other cult legions meet that requirement, and the undivided ones certainly don't.

Of course GW seems to disagree with me based on the marine supplement bukkake over the last two editions so what the hell do I know.

None of them really, frankly even the cult legions having their own books is kind of a mistake in my opinion. Trying to put enough unique units into a legion codex to justify its existence is why we end up with a lot of weird units like the Sloppityboppity Bilepiper or whatever the feth.

I'd rather we get one big book for CSM and a series of $4.99 Legion supplements that have one or two unique unit entries and a handful of strategems.

World Eaters all have the butcher nails so even the more sane World Eaters that aren't berzerkers (I don't think those exist anymore after 10.000 years) are fundamentally different to normal chaos space marines.

And Emperor's Children basically became all deranged with the Cult of Sound or whatever so the same.

I only see as a net positive the thing they did with Thousand Sons and Death Guard. Losing stuff sucks but you can play your old scholl thousand sons and death guard armies as normal CSM armies. The new armies have now phenomenal model ranges with their own clear aesthetic and gameplay style.

-Guardsman- wrote:
Voted for Alpha Legion, though I very much agree there doesn't need to be a full codex for every chapter. Especially true for undivided Chaos Astartes, which often have very little to set them apart. I'm still unclear what is the Black Legion's "thing", apart from being Abaddon's chapter. Or the Word Bearers' "thing", apart from being the first legion to fall to Chaos.

If it doesn't have at least a few unique units, it shouldn't have its own codex. Especially since other armies than Marines don't get the privilege of subfaction codexes. Can you imagine a Catachan codex? A Biel-Tan codex? A Hive Fleet Leviathan codex?

MUHA! HA!
Ah, this is great! Dude, there was actually a Catachan codex in 3rd.

Either all or none. Preferably they'll either fit them all into a single codex or have a Traitor Legions supplement. I wouldn't want any of them to get stuck in a single codex for many of the reasons already mentioned: loss of units, unneeded bloat, and most importantly: being left to the whims of whoever writes it. I've already seen ideas for a Night Lords Codex that make me go "huh". Few tanks but daemon engines instead? Whut?

SamusDrake wrote:
Well, if Space Marines have them then...fair's fair.

And while we're being so fair, how about separate supplements for the main Craftworlds and Ynnari?

Ynnari needs some units and a book first. Or to not exist, since they haven't bothered to do anything with the concept beyond the special characters.

Craftworlds could be fine, if GW ever gets around to updating the codex and model range.

I just don’t think supplements work, the traitor legions have had 10k years to mutate into something different, plus at the time of great crusade they weren’t exactly uniform. The only way I can see supplements working is for black legion and red corsairs

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
None of them.

Put 'em all in one Codex. Leave full Codices to the Cult Legions.

Best answer. Should have checked this comment before I voted...