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 Jidmah wrote:
The bunker can't have a culture, it can only trigger it for others.

I can't find anything that says as such. It's a Orks <clan> unit in a detacehment that isn't a super heavy auxiliary or an auxiliary. Thus in theory it should get the culture bonuses. But that dosn't matter too much since it's squint fire hits automatically. Meaning if you do deep strike (and I can't find anything that says you can't do so) you could be able to get in a position where you can hit a character with a str9 ap3 d3 weapon. If the stars aline, two or even three would likley wipe out even some marine characters. (looking at you selfless healer apothacaries. The bane of my existence.)

But the big thing I was indicating is that transported units can utilize and trigger freebootaz. Before 10 tankbustas in a trukk for example could kill something but you'd never be able to measure 24 inches to them as they were in that odd limbo of not existing. Now because it's "A Freebootaz unit from your army" there's little question. So it feels like a motorized freebootaz army has legs. Or wheels. Just a case of having a variety of tools to make sure you can kill any weak target first. Which is why we're seeing squigbuggies in tourney lists i reckon.

Even if you could deep strike t2, it's not a good option as you will likely not get a place to fit your fortification due to 3" away from other terrain - rule.

The same exact rule that excludes auxiliary detachments from getting detachment rules also mentions fortifications.

Thats why the bunker doesnt get anything.

Its a core rule thing not a codex thing

 Blackie wrote:


Freeboota can be a trap though. Some armies bring units that are not easy to kill, even with MSU style. Even drukhari units are quite tough (-1 to hit, invulns, deep strike, ability to hide and move long distances, ability to assault pretty soon, etc...) and in practise most of the freebota units won't get their +1 to hit as they need to trigger it first. Good luck with Deathguard and custodes.

Bad Moon trait shines on units that have already AP-1, AP-2 and/or have high rof with S5+ weapons. Rokkits, supa shootas, and big shootas/dakkaguns are the best candidates to get benefits from the kultur. It can also be combined with the dedicated stratagem that grants additional hits for 1CP. Shoota boyz are garbage for every klan .

I agree shoota boys are crap I was just using them as my go to unit because of their ROF. But even with that incredible ROF they still only that paltry amount of -1AP. To me, the -1AP is kind of crap for how its worded. If it had been -1AP for shots that hit on 6s....that would have been slightly better. 90 shots = 30 hits = 15 wounds = 5 -1AP shots. 90 shots = 30 hits, but also 15 -1AP shots which = 7.5 Normal hits and 7.5 -1AP shots, so still not great, but around 50% more.

On Rokkitz, if you got 10 tankbustas all in range without moving thats 20 shots on average. that is 7.3 hits and only 1ish -1AP shot. That isn't just kind of crap, its UTTER crap. Yeah freeboota is harder to proc but its significantly better across the board and Drukhari are an easy army to kill 1 unit. They spam cheap throwaway transports which pop when shot at with dedicated firepower.

There is a reason the top tables are heavy with Freeboota right now and not Badmoonz.

So, just came out of another game with a mate using the following list



He was using a fairly standard Tsons list.

Squigs have plenty of hitting power, especially against marines. Bosses hit like a load of bricks which is fun. The waagh is decent enough. Still loving Stomp em good, with a few heroic interventions you can easily get points in your opponants turn too. Get the good bits only feels decent if you can get an early control of the board. Same with Da biggest and Da best.

Between ramshackle and the squigosaurs Tsons really struggle against orks. They have plenty of D2 under Str7 and we just happen to work great against that meaning we can push for the advantage early.

Mid game Frazzle and biting jawz are great on a gitbones killrig. Lets you slap out a great number of mortal wounds with ease.

Squigbuggies can also hit really hard with a little luck. Against marines at least.

Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?

SemperMortis wrote:
Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?

"infiltrate" units deploy just like normal units. The wording or these special rules can be found in the unit datasheet itself. It'll say when you deploy this unit set it up anywhere 9" from enemy deployment and enemy models.

starscream17 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?

"infiltrate" units deploy just like normal units. The wording or these special rules can be found in the unit datasheet itself. It'll say when you deploy this unit set it up anywhere 9" from enemy deployment and enemy models.

Well damn i'm bringing a rather small detachment to my game and wanted to maximize my time to place Kommandos.

cody.d. wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The bunker can't have a culture, it can only trigger it for others.

I can't find anything that says as such. It's a Orks <clan> unit in a detacehment that isn't a super heavy auxiliary or an auxiliary. Thus in theory it should get the culture bonuses. But that dosn't matter too much since it's squint fire hits automatically. Meaning if you do deep strike (and I can't find anything that says you can't do so) you could be able to get in a position where you can hit a character with a str9 ap3 d3 weapon. If the stars aline, two or even three would likley wipe out even some marine characters. (looking at you selfless healer apothacaries. The bane of my existence.)

But the big thing I was indicating is that transported units can utilize and trigger freebootaz. Before 10 tankbustas in a trukk for example could kill something but you'd never be able to measure 24 inches to them as they were in that odd limbo of not existing. Now because it's "A Freebootaz unit from your army" there's little question. So it feels like a motorized freebootaz army has legs. Or wheels. Just a case of having a variety of tools to make sure you can kill any weak target first. Which is why we're seeing squigbuggies in tourney lists i reckon.

Every Codex lists a set of abilities that units in a Detachment gain if every unit in that Detachment is from a specified Faction. Units in Auxiliary Support Detachments, Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments and Fortification Network Detachments never gain any Detachment abilities, even if every unit in that Detachment is from the Faction specified.

Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?

Kmk is usually the best.

Ork secondaries are quite mediocre. You're better off with generic ones.

Da gut Gitz are in fact pretty good. You have to choose 3 objectives and try to hold them. but it' s a trap. You need to hold just one of them, to get 3VP per turn = 15VP in total and you can score with any CORE units which means Warbikers are an option (minimum squad…)

Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur? And it only cost 1 cp? It's only if you bring 1 low in a super you don't get it.

Is that not correct?

No that is correct.
Its the Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment that does not.

Keramory wrote:
Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur?

Correct

Keramory wrote:
And it only cost 1 cp?

It costs 6CP since the units have the Titanic keyword and Super-heavy detachments don't get the CP refund like SH Aux detachments

Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/29/sunday-preview-green-is-good/

Codex release up next, alongside Combat Patrol, beast snagga stuff and bossbunka

Cool releases this week but I'm in no rush to buy anything else for now, still working on my beast snagga box and some more warbikers! I really like the combat patrol but just don't think I need it for my collection due to having so many boys already. Sure I'll pick it up at some point though.

Same. I hope someone sells the warboss separately, as I like the model but really have no need for all the other things.

But then again, I think I've spend enough on 40k recently, the only thing I'm definitely getting is the Beastboss on Squigosaur.

Hilarious anecdote: I've just returned from a game where I killed the nightbringer by ramming it with a scrapjet that was only alive because I repaired with with a big mek for 3 wounds the round before. It's almost as if that flyboy inside the scrapjet had read this thread and decided to prove me wrong on three separate things I suggested for tactics

The most relevant info from this is it pushes up the earliest we will see an errata for this awfully edited book.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?

I guess like any secondaries it all depends on your list.

Stomp em good is reliable for 15 points in my experience. But I like aggressive combat focused lists and so far haven't faced off against a super elite list like knights. It's also good that you can achieve it in the opponents turn if things go well.

Da biggest and Da best is okay if you're taking a fast, hitty and tough boss. So the squigosaurs essentially. Though I've found it hard to get 5 points a turn from it. But you can use the things the boss kills to count towards Stomp em so that's nice.

Only tried get da good bitz once and on a mission with only 2 viable objectives for it. Ideally you place less valuable units on them once the frontline has pushed forward, like slot filler grots. But it's an action that needs you to live for a turn, meaning whoever is performing the action has a massive target on it. Do you put an expensive tanky unit on action duty? Or a cheap, weak disposable one and hope you can keep the opponent occupied? The ability to get 9 points a turn is great and all, but a lot of opponents would be able to clear them off said objective.

Not tried Green tide yet. In theory if you're taking a horde it's easy enough. Spamming infantry units of all types. Though it is an easier secondary if you have second turn. Scores at the end of the battleround so is great if your opponent doesn't get to shoot you before you score.

Some factions have gotten better secondaries. But at least we have stuff to suit a few of our playstyles.

 xttz wrote:

Keramory wrote:
Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur?

Correct

Keramory wrote:
And it only cost 1 cp?

It costs 6CP since the units have the Titanic keyword and Super-heavy detachments don't get the CP refund like SH Aux detachments

Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/29/sunday-preview-green-is-good/

Codex release up next, alongside Combat Patrol, beast snagga stuff and bossbunka

Thanks. I thought someone on here said there was an faq and that xenos super heavys dont pay as much for some reason, that its really for imperium and chaos.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

If I play melee oriented army (don't own any buggies) and I face a shooty army, I think Stomp em good could be nice, as it ignores the number of my units wiped by shooting, and the dead gretchins units.
Not strong- cause not reliable at all, but a good candidate for that 3rd secondary that I always have trouble to chose.

Played a couple games vs Sisters this weekend. Learned that Blood Axes are very good for buggies and kannonwagons. Being able to fall back and shoot is vital sometimes, and the light cover doesn't hurt either. Also learned that boyz are not good, in either form, but at least choppaz have a chance at doing something. Badrukk is probably better than a shokk attack gun. Flash Gitz are in a super weird place where they need to be in a transport to survive, but also don't want that transport to move, and also can't use their shoot twice stratagem in a transport, and also can't use badrukks aura while in transport.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

Definitely not an auto take, but I've found Da Biggest and Da Best to be half decent when you're doing the Battlewagon-Ghaz trick. The transport basically makes him unhurtable for the first turn and after that makes it very hard for the opponent to screen him off properly. IMO Ghaz's biggest weakness is how inefficiently pointwise he deals with chaff, but that secondary kinda turns it around, making it perfectly fine to go reap VPs from whatever gits there are on his way. You can even start scoring from t1 if going second and the opponent pushed for the mid-board. Just stay away from Dark Angels and 4++ terminators in general.

It's a risky secondary any which way you look at it, depending on a single model's survival. But it gives a nice boost to Ghaz's utility, provides you with much better board control and in an aggressive list with multiple early threats isn't that hard to pull through.

So i thought about something with the whole, interaction between transports giving their buffs to embarked units. I dont know if its a good interaction at all, but well.. its there.

modifiers given to transports is given to the embarked models, and as their own example given in the FAQ, +/- to hit and wound was made.

That would also mean that if you have 3 kill rigs or 3 hunta rigs and you use the stratagem, Monster hunters to give up to 3 beast snagga units +1 to wound, and those hunta rigs/kill rigs have beast snagga boys embarked, they too would receive +1 to wound with their pistols.

So you would hit on 4s, both rigs and boys, and if its a toughness 7 model your boys would wound on 4+and rigs better than that with its own guns. if you have kill rigs or hunta rigs with beast snagga boys inside of them, you effectively go from 3 units that get +1 to wound, to 6 units.

According to rare rules i would assume thats how it works. There is a lot of rare rules interactions with our new codex, and i really wonder how much of it works like that. Like +1 to hit for trukk boy units and -AP modifiers from speedwaaaghs.

Beardedragon wrote:
So i thought about something with the whole, interaction between transports giving their buffs to embarked units. I dont know if its a good interaction at all, but well.. its there.

I'm assuming that GW's intent for that interaction is that open-toppped transport passengers can still be subject to debuffs, ensuring they're not completely immune from counterplay while still being able to interact with the rest of the game themselves.

So an opponent not in an position to pop a troublesome transport still has the option to slap a -1 to hit psychic power on them instead.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?

1. DA BIGGEST can work with a Squigosaur Warboss simply because he has enough attacks to kill 5 models and enough punch to erase characters. Even one built "defensively" with something like the -1 to be wounded trait will probably still manage to do it every turn he actually gets in combat, only issue being that you won't be scoring this turn 1 unless your opponent goes first and lets you charge something AND you can keep screening your warboss in the subsequent turns to let him keep rolling trough the battlefield.

Other Warbosses could struggle with the squad mopping part, even with BrutalButKunning simply because they don't have enough base attacks/punch IMHO.

2. Kustom Mega Kannons, there's just no debate.
Mekgunz will die as soon as something looks at them angrily so taking 1 MW from Gets Hot! is hardly an issue (and it's limited to 1 each time you fire the weapon so whatever).
Smasha Gunz were wicked because they were cheaper AND their wounding system would ignore Transhuman and similar strats but now they're just meh.

Zompa wrote:

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?

1. DA BIGGEST can work with a Squigosaur Warboss simply because he has enough attacks to kill 5 models and enough punch to erase characters. Even one built "defensively" with something like the -1 to be wounded trait will probably still manage to do it every turn he actually gets in combat, only issue being that you won't be scoring this turn 1 unless your opponent goes first and lets you charge something AND you can keep screening your warboss in the subsequent turns to let him keep rolling trough the battlefield.

Other Warbosses could struggle with the squad mopping part, even with BrutalButKunning simply because they don't have enough base attacks/punch IMHO.

i like STOMP ’EM GOOD - i don't think there are many armies that will defeat ork infantry using melee attacks especially since all orks are now minimum T5, i have played 2 games but these were against Tau and Eldar so it was always gonna work and get maxed out against them xD

Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.

SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.

Congrats on your krushing victory! What clan did you take for this alpha strike list? I'm guessing Goffs? Also, how many kommandos ended up engaging with the Squigasaur boss? I'm kinda surprised that you were able to wipe him in one turn, given that you'd be wounding him on 5's.

Keep in mind if you can reliably score 9 VP in a secondary you tend to win the game, so if you can archive that, it's already a decent choice.

According to goonhammers latest meta review a "good" secondary scored 7-8 VP on average.