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I feel Nanavati needs to go into significantly more detail than "cover lol" as to why Speedwaaagh "can't work" given all the mounting evidence to the contrary. I mean yes, that scenario where your opponent's entire army is able to camp in dense cover is an obvious negative, but I can't think of many tables where that's a realistic prospect.

There is a meta dimension in that I think if people start packing bags of multi-meltas/dark lances etc then buggy lists may fall over even faster than they kill things themselves - but equally I'm not sure the rest of the meta will allow lists like that to prosper, hence we are where we are today.

Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

 Jidmah wrote:
If anything, Nick has proven repeatedly that despite being an exceptionally good player, he doesn't understand how orks work.

He did a very similar article for our last codex, was wrong about most of it and failed to place with orks even once, and not for the lack of trying.

Yeah, definitely. But I like to read it, because he is neither stupid nor lacking of experience with W40k. His concept of solving the game in movement is interesting.

But his objection againts the vehicle lists based on traffic jam issue is fail. If some wants to play vehicle list, this is the first think you have to plan about. Make a mix of vehicles having different moving needs to avoid the traffic jam is essentual. Something have to march forward, something needs to stay back.

That is btw one of the thinks which makes squigbuggies so good now. They needs to be on places on the table, where other buggies don ´t want to be…


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

Thanks to the armies like Ad Mech now you dont have to afraid of massive antitank lists IMHO.

Eh, any time he talks about orks, he tries to get around their weakness to make them play like marines, and this article is full of the same nonsense. Because he always tries to fit a square peg into a round hole, he ends up with a list that has none of the strengths or orks nor marines.

But yes, the great part about squig buggies is that they don't care about going fast or where the enemy is, which solves much of the traffic jam issues I've encountered previously.

To be fair though, I've taken a liking to my "one of everything" speed waaagh list which can't even remotely be considered competitive. Interestingly enough though, the KFF has snuk itself back into the list as a staple, because blowing 4CP on kff and kopta smoke could T1 has thrown a major wrench into my opponent's plans multiple times now.

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

that would change it from 1 marine every 3 turns to 1 marine every 2 turns

Well, the second part of Competitive Inovations on goonhammer is out and despite they called this issue a “Global Waaaagh” there is not a single ork list except Andrew Penn.

And honestly, Andrew Penn is there always he plays somethink - even with totaly crazy lists nobidy understand how does it works - so it ´ s more about the player than the list I guess

I would like to read his article about the new codex much more than Nicks….

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

yeah but when you go to these events most of the time you will be matched up against a space marine because its the most popular faction, thats why everything is compared to space marines- we ork players are just going to have to deal with that.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

thats true but that has always been to try and make the most out of - detachment wide /army wide abilities/buffs/strategems - bad moons rerolls/more dakka/shoot twice etc
this 9th edition codex has seen alot of nerfs to those kinds of buffs and abilities.
There are exceptions though- freebootas klan kulture for example,
but this kulture adds +1 to hit and when you use this on buggies that have +1 to hit built in to some of their weapons it is a waste.

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

yes, but again i think the loss of army wide buffs and abilities and stratagems has made them even worse than before



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

the rockkit kannon has mobility issues like you said,
what i am trying to say about the scrapjet is that it is a
"jack of all trades model and master of non" - everytime i look at it i always think another unit could to the same job better

there are few situation in which you can use all of its weapons optimally in a single turn.

its rockkit kannon enjoy hitting on 5's
you charge you can't use the rockkit kannon at all because of blast
in combat it hits on 4's instead of the ork standard of 3's and has only 4 attacks -on average 2 hits
even durability it doesn't excel - it is less durable than a trukk

 kingbbobb wrote:

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

yeah but when you go to these events most of the time you will be matched up against a space marine because its the most popular faction, thats why everything is compared to space marines- we ork players are just going to have to deal with that.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

thats true but that has always been to try and make the most out of - detachment wide /army wide abilities/buffs/strategems - bad moons rerolls/more dakka/shoot twice etc
this 9th edition codex has seen alot of nerfs to those kinds of buffs and abilities.
There are exceptions though- freebootas klan kulture for example,
but this kulture adds +1 to hit and when you use this on buggies that have +1 to hit built in to some of their weapons it is a waste.

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

yes, but again i think the loss of army wide buffs and abilities and stratagems has made them even worse than before



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

the rockkit kannon has mobility issues like you said,
what i am trying to say about the scrapjet is that it is a
"jack of all trades model and master of non" - everytime i look at it i always think another unit could to the same job better

there are few situation in which you can use all of its weapons optimally in a single turn.

you move -1 to hit for its rockkit kannon enjoy hitting on 6's
you charge you can't use the rockkit kannon at all because of blast
in combat it hits on 4's instead of the ork standard of 3's and has only 4 attacks -on average 2 hits
even durability it doesn't excel - it is less durable than a trukk

Wait, hold up. How does moving make you hit on 6's? Unless you're shooting through dense terrain or some other trait/strat that your opponent has that gives neg. mods to hit, you can fire heavy weapons without a -1 to hit penalty if you're not infantry.

Wait, hold up. How does moving make you hit on 6's? Unless you're shooting through dense terrain or some other trait/strat that your opponent has that gives neg. mods to hit, you can fire heavy weapons without a -1 to hit penalty if you're not infantry.

ah yeah i always forget about that, hitting on 5's

Not sure where else you get the equivalent of 3.5 (ish) rokkit launchers and 4 big shootas (2 with +1 to hit) and a surprisingly dangerous charge for just 90 points.

In a Speedwaaagh turn Scrapjets expect to shoot about 3 intercessors, for a 66% return on their points, rising to nearly 100% if Freebooterz is up. This is incredible. Then break out say Ramming Speed (expensive perhaps, but reliable) and hopefully do a bunch of mortal wounds. Obviously you could be unlucky and get none, but equally you've got a good chance of wiping characters or expensive elite models (Incubi for example).

Odds are at this point you've got your moneys worth.

Scrapjets are very good. No serious discussion could be hold about it. Especially not based on “their big shootas are useless” or “they hold nothing”.

Big shootas are almost useless. That is an characteristic mentioned here hundred times. Not the flaw of scrapjet. Shooting on Marines with big shootas is pure “no better target and I have a lot of time” or “I have no idea how my weapons works” situation.

And scrapjet holds enough for 90. Maybe more than enought face to their atack ability. Yes, trukkholds more, but trukk attack ability is zero.

Scrapjets are great, because - as was said - their vomit rokkits (and there is always something you can pepper with big shootas in 36”) and after that they can charge and deal a serious ammount of damage by mortal wounds in charge. And after that, you fight.

In new codex, they are weaker but before, Evil Sunz Scrapjet improved by Corkscrew Kustom Job with the warboss on bike / defkilla nearby, Ramming Speed strategem and Unstoppable Momentum strategem can deal up to 12 Mortal Wounds and move 10+2+6+1+18+18+1+1+12=69”. Which is super rare, average is about 38”+ Advance + Evil Sunz.

One of them.

You usually takes three, so you have very good chance to do it 3x.

I 'm sorry, but what another unit is able to do anything like this for this price?

Speedwaagh bigshootas onyour skrapjet deal only ~20% less damage than all the rokkits vs targets with t6-7, 5++ and -1 damage. There are lots of targets with such stats.
And if you calculate the damage output vs t8, bigshootas actually deal more damage.

Nowhere close to useless in my book.

So far I have been pleased with the new big shootas when Speedwaaagh is active. Bothering to fire with them on Trukks and whatnot has felt like going through the motions since 8th, they're still not intimidating but they've managed to plink enough wounds to change how I distribute the rest of my shooting, on several occasions. Not a big enough change to make me want to add them on vehicles that don't come with a mandatory one or two, of course.

 koooaei wrote:
Nowhere close to useless in my book.

Nowhere close to useless in any book. Just meat a to chew while everybody are painting and waiting for Killrigs and other stuff from new codex.

I ' m really interested how the top lists change after all models comes to the market. My Boss on Robosaur is ready but I don' t want to start any conversion of the Rigs until the real size is confirmed.

And I'm really interested in to the new book that comes next year?? and makes the extensions to the new codex. My guess is that this book pimps up the Sneakbites even more.

Big shootas are almost useless. That is an characteristic mentioned here hundred times. Not the flaw of scrapjet. Shooting on Marines with big shootas is pure “no better target and I have a lot of time” or “I have no idea how my weapons works” situation.

on this i agree

And scrapjet holds enough for 90. Maybe more than enought face to their atack ability. Yes, trukkholds more, but trukk attack ability is zero.

i was only making the point that the scrapjets are made of tinfoil , they don't have survivability when compared to other ork vehicles - they have T6 W9 and 4+ save - anything that attacks them will tear them to peices and the fact they are in squads means it is worse than other vehicles which benefit from target saturation.

Scrapjets are great, because - as was said - their vomit rokkits (and there is always something you can pepper with big shootas in 36”) and after that they can charge and deal a serious ammount of damage by mortal wounds in charge. And after that, you fight.

the rockets will kill 1 space marine per model on average
the mortal wounds are 50/50 chance of d3 mortals per model - on average thats probably 2 and another single space marine dead - thats not bad but its not great, its an ability you will likely only use once per battle unless your trying to do something funky will fall back and charge

In new codex, they are weaker but before, Evil Sunz Scrapjet improved by Corkscrew Kustom Job with the warboss on bike / defkilla nearby, Ramming Speed strategem and Unstoppable Momentum strategem can deal up to 12 Mortal Wounds and move 10+2+6+1+18+18+1+1+12=69”. Which is super rare, average is about 38”+ Advance + Evil Sunz.

well i do not want to talk about 8th edition but i have never seen anyone execute Unstoppable Momentum strategem ever in a game,

You usually takes three, so you have very good chance to do it 3x.

as far as i know most people are taking squads of 2 due to the risk of morale fail and the third auto fleeing

I 'm sorry, but what another unit is able to do anything like this for this price?

i want it to specialise at something... at the minute it specialises at nothing.
1/ It is less resilient than a trukk
2/ Less killy than a dakkajet at range
3/ Less killy than a deffdread at close combat
4/ Worse in just about every single way than a squad of warbikers with the exception of morale vulnerability

The spiked ram is not a good enough reason to take it.

Just to turn things away from the Scrapjet discussion, I would like some feedback on my list and my proposed changes to it. I posted it on the army list subforum but didn't get much feedback.

Here is the list as it currently stands;


The main proposed change is to drop the klaws on the stormboys, and drop the deffkoptas to three, which will allow room for a mob of bikers with a big choppa on the nob (130 points). I could also swap out the bikers with a dakkajet instead.

The koptas are really good, but I'm not sure what the magic number is with them. The stormboys are hit and miss and either win games or just melt when confronted by a stiff breeze.

Thoughts on adding bikers?

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

To put it bluntly? My favorite unit in our Codex....KOMMANDOS!!!!!!!

My list right now is 30 Kommandos in 3 mobz with Nob/PK Bomb squig and distraction Grot...with how prevalent Terrain is right now I could be considered to scrap the distraction grot...but its just so damn worth it that I want it every time. I simultaneously run 3x trukk Boyz and 3x 10 Stormboyz backed up by Mek gunz. This is just a beat stick Alpha strike list that is actually fairly durable. The Kommandos deploy in terrain turn 1 and get 3+ armor on a T5 model for 10ppm The Trukkz aren't very durable but worst case scenario I see 2 at most being popped and that leaves a lot of other Alpha strike threats to deal with. Basically the infantry dominates, just not boyz who are more of an after thought who are only useful as Trukk boyz so they can turn 1 get into CC.

Hi there. Had my first game with new orks against dark eldar
We played about 1700 points, tried out a couple of things, and it worked quiet well, solid victory for the orks

Lists from memory


If someone's interested here is a 'short' debriefing of the game. As far as I can remember^^:


Noteable mentions, my two cents on the units:

Damn the MAN warbloss with ard as nails and Superbody was exceptional. He was attacked by 6-7 bloodbribes..and a succubus (very bad matchup, because of lots of attacks with high ap) and even after wyches attacked again for 2Cp, he still stood there with one wound left. He did next to nothing in return mind you... But damn he is tough.

The wartrike was also surprisingly good... Lot tougher than I expected thx to ramshackle and it even shot down the last three bloodbribes with his Boomsticks in CC (that's what I call a shotgun wedding, lol)

Tankbustaz died to a stiff breeze after their Trukk blew up... (Nothing new though)

Gretchin, Kommandos and stormboyz got me some points as expected, didnt do much else though

Single mek gun was awesome, cause it wasn't shot at one single time (too many other juicy targets I guess) even lucked out and one shotted the succubus

Wazboms have amazing firepower., and are a real fire magnet. Dakkajets are just wow... Clearing chaff and medium things right and left

The squighogs are a great distraction unit. Other player was massively afraid of them... So they soaked quite alot of shooting (same goes for the nob, I am still not sold on him though... Mortal wound shenanigans are great, but 65 points is quit expensive, mantle is useless, killchoppa would be a better choice I guess) but more importantly they dictated my opponents movement. He basically didnt push their flank.

The KILLRIG IS fething AMAZING! it broke the back of the enemy army. it deepstruck in their backfield and psyched, shot, rampaged rammingspeedily and tor apart huge chunks of stuff in CC. Took me alot of time scratchbuilding one... But damn... So noice.

Scrapjets were ok, as were the warbikes. Squigbuggy was a bit underwhelming... But I'd still take at least one in every list.


Moving forward I am excited to field a warbloss on squig (as soon as I can get around printing one) as the other choices have next to zero hitting power. It's either be tanks or killy... And the killy part is rather meh (killchoppa with brutal but Kunming maybe? But on what model? I don't wanna die in return cause some random murin gobsmashed my boss with the butt of his rifle)
All in all orks are alot more solid than I thought. Freeboota trait is amazing and so is the ramshackle... Well at least in CC
engage on all fronts and octarius are really easy to get lots of points. And we can field enough units to clog up the objectives.

Well, those were my two cents

Honestly I like the smashanob most for being a trait caddy. Giving them follow me lads or beastgob is a great way to support your squiglads or other units while allowing your squigosaur or other big ticket character to take the more important traits to their build. Be that durability or output. Otherwise they're just a nob biker with a slight buff to melee output. Though taking 3 as an assassin unit is a fun idea. Most midlevel characters will drop to the 7.5 average mortals they put out regardless of what defensive abilities they have. (outside of a great FNP to mortals ala grey knights.)

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

To put it bluntly? My favorite unit in our Codex....KOMMANDOS!!!!!!!

My list right now is 30 Kommandos in 3 mobz with Nob/PK Bomb squig and distraction Grot...with how prevalent Terrain is right now I could be considered to scrap the distraction grot...but its just so damn worth it that I want it every time. I simultaneously run 3x trukk Boyz and 3x 10 Stormboyz backed up by Mek gunz. This is just a beat stick Alpha strike list that is actually fairly durable. The Kommandos deploy in terrain turn 1 and get 3+ armor on a T5 model for 10ppm The Trukkz aren't very durable but worst case scenario I see 2 at most being popped and that leaves a lot of other Alpha strike threats to deal with. Basically the infantry dominates, just not boyz who are more of an after thought who are only useful as Trukk boyz so they can turn 1 get into CC.

Kommandos are awesome but with rule of three maxing them out (3x10) is something like 350 points at most. Add 3x1 Mek gunz, that's another 135 points for a grand total of 450-500 points. For 2000 points lists. Those units fill up Elite and Heavy Support slots. For these reasons they really don't compete with buggies. Even if 3x trukk boyz units join the lot there's still half budget available. 3 scrapjets are 270 points.

Vehicles based lists are getting good results in competitive games, it's not like we just have infantry spam that relies on alpha strike at the moment.

I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

I think deff dredds are not very good this edition. Too soft and lack mobility. Shooting versions are just worse scrapjets. If you play casual games I guess they will do ok, but there is just many better things we can use to do the job. CC goff dreads can deal lots of damage but the two times I tried them they just required too much effort to go kill stuff. Sguig riders kill stuff too, but have 4 more move, and I love using them for the visuals on the battlefield (I have 3 and then 9 gore AOS converted ones with cybernetics and power lances). And even these dudes are subpar really (don't think they will make the cut for my next tournament) IMHO. I will test them more though. Deff dreads I won't, not until they go down in points next CA or something

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

Sparkly bitz as an upgrade for a dread squad doesn't exist anymore. Now all you can do is to pay 10 points to add an additional KMB shot to a single model. To make them hit on 4s you need to trigger the freebota trait.

But dreads are the only unit in the codex that can be taken as a squadron and split up as independent units after deployment and they're reasonably costed. I'd go for 1-2 Klaws and 2-3 KMBs though, not full KMBs as removing all their melee potential seems a waste.

I think they're a legit unit with strong internal competition, not really bad but certainly far from being among the best choices. I'm currently playing without them, only fielded 3x in a single game so far, but I'll certainly try them more in this edition unless they get nerfed at some point.

I like the idea of running 3 skorcha kanz in smaller games with 18" Deployment. This way they can advance, shoot and almost guarantee 2d turn charge. They seem harder to deal with than 1 skorcha dread. A bit more expensive and have ld issues but at least won't be dead from a lucky melta shot.

 Blackie wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

Sparkly bitz as an upgrade for a dread squad doesn't exist anymore. Now all you can do is to pay 10 points to add an additional KMB shot to a single model. To make them hit on 4s you need to trigger the freebota trait.

But dreads are the only unit in the codex that can be taken as a squadron and split up as independent units after deployment and they're reasonably costed. I'd go for 1-2 Klaws and 2-3 KMBs though, not full KMBs as removing all their melee potential seems a waste.

I think they're a legit unit with strong internal competition, not really bad but certainly far from being among the best choices. I'm currently playing without them, only fielded 3x in a single game so far, but I'll certainly try them more in this edition unless they get nerfed at some point.

LOL if dredds get nerfed then 3/4 of the codex will get nerfed as well Hah Hah Hah

I also can only see the deff dread has a 3sckorcha/1claw with the movement kustom job as the most viable as you can get.

The issue with the dread is it's delivery and low BS. It's subpar in shooting leaves him dependent of kultures, and since we lost the 1+ to charge for ES it's not a reliable tely either as a melee. It's also not very durable since there is no stratagem support for them, compared to something like buggies. Oh and it's slow, really slow...

It is also overshadowed by a lot of units which do what it does, just better.

It's a real shame cause i love the model, it just has no fit currently.