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Ive had the pleasant experience of playing versus chaos daemons and the big bloodthirster who takes only 8 wounds, and heals when he kills models.


Now im running my goff army with no psykers and no shooting so i only really have my melee to deal with that.

How the hell do i deal with that

In the end i just let him go on a rampage and tried to kill everything else, because he kept healing up the wounds i dealt to him. And since the fighting phase was the only phase i could really do anything in, well, he werent dying any time soon.

If you only had melee guess you have decent amount of infantry? Vehicle orks tend to have shooting. In that case unless orks had way to ignore damage ignore rules either ghaz with his own damage cap(taste your own medicine) or just ignore as you won't kill it. I had one rampage among ork infantry army and that ork had some shooting but was able to remove them fast enough and heal that still survived. In the end was even at full health having gone down to 4...

Try to keep units so he can't charge multiple at once. Albeit thirsters big base makes that hard

i had 2x 10 kommandos
3x 10 stormboyz
2x 8 Nobz, 6 powerklaws, 2 big choppas
9 trukk boy Nobz with big choppas
2x 10 boyz
2x battlewagons with deff rollas and ard case
3x 10 grots

mega boss with super cybork
zagstrukk
biker boss with brutal but kunning and da killa klaw.


His thirster never really charged more than one unit at a time but the problem is he is wound capped and he heals everytime he Effs my infantry. And since he heals on a +5 per model killed, getting through that amount of wounds with wound caps while he heals, when i only had melee, just seemed stupidly difficult.

Mind you he also had belakor which i also had to deal with. I did kill that guy though, but this blood thirster just ran amok. The only saving grace was a battle wagon that for some unexplained reason, survived 2 combat rounds with him.

In that situation the question becomes, do you really need to kill him? Just park a trukk/battlewagon on top and just ignore, sure he will kill it, by the time he does, just throw another or something expendable. That's more a distraction carnifex. Had similar moment happen to me with DA captain, could not kill with gazz, completely wasted trying to kill. Letting it be is just what he wants. If that's bad imagine dealing with a walking tyrant with 5invuln, 5fnp and gets to heal. Now double that. In these situations is always just park something that is durable.

Thats what i ended up doing. But its not really that realistic to keep throwing stuff at him when i have to deal with the entire army of enemies also being melee contenders. Also he deepstrikes within like 6 inches making it difficult to really know where he starts. He gets the first charge, kills something. I throw something at him, he kills that and effectively goes free.

I was in luck that it he made miserable attacks against my battle wagon and i made godlike saves. In reality the wagon should have died the moment he swung at it. but it was allowed to stay for 2 or 3 combat turns.

Given he can fly, blocking him becomes increasingly more difficult.

Don't throw unit at him if you aren't sure you survive. That way　he kills max 4 units and killing power you don"t waste at it can be used to kill rest of his army.

He wants you to charge him. Why give him what he wants?

If he kills 4 units for which you have some control what in game with 400pts unit thats not too bad. Units die. That's 40k.

That or invest in shooting and less model heavy units.

tneva82 wrote:
Don't throw unit at him if you aren't sure you survive. That way　he kills max 4 units and killing power you don"t waste at it can be used to kill rest of his army.

He wants you to charge him. Why give him what he wants?

If he kills 4 units for which you have some control what in game with 400pts unit thats not too bad. Units die. That's 40k.

That or invest in shooting and less model heavy units.

because of my 5 up invul they MIGHT survive and then i can keep him in place. in this case, my battlewagon was fortunate enough to survive decently enough.

And if i dont attempt to do something, he will just fly around and wreck my entire army. I see your point, and its easy enough to leave someone you cant deal with alone, but in this case, when you are fighting chaos daemons that are, equally in your face and he is along side belakor i didnt see how i could afford to have him wreck my high value units. I needed those for Belakor. Its also not like he only moves 8 inches. Now in this case, i did have enough high end units left to deal with belakor, and my wagon did, again hold him in place for 2 or 3 combat turns.


Generally my army composition has served me quite well, except when i have to deal with that big oaf of a character. My 8 Nobz with 6 powerklaws and 2 big choppas, 5+ exploding sixes (stratagem) hitting on 3s (powerklaws or 2s for big choppas) near my mega boss can absolutely shred big chunky enemies, like Angron, or Skarbrand but not when they are wound capped.

But maybe i should just let him run amok. In this case he murdered 1 battlewagon, 8 Nobz, 10 grots, 10 kommandos 1 trukk. He used 2 daemon points to arrive from deepstrike turn 1 so i couldnt really do much about that. I could have avoided the dead Nobz but i didnt kow he would heal on a +5 per dead model when i went in. that was done in an attempt to kill him over a few turns. Which failed when i found out he healed, so yea the nobz were definitely thrown out the window.


All in all, it just seems like a disgusting combo. can potentially turn 1 charge, has 20 or so wounds, wound capped, heals up to like 5 wounds with enough dead models destroyed. Destroys anything in melee, can fly.

Why dont we have such a model


on another note i played World eaters today. Does anyone know how the interaction for Angron coming back to life like 5 million times is, when you use bring it down or assassinate? Do you only get the points for him being dead by turn 5? Or do you continuously get point by constantly cutting his head off. I also seem to have a hard time finding a third secondary to use against world eaters. I went with greentide and goodbits which netted me 10 points and 15.

But i didnt know what to go for the last secondary so i went with bring it down. he had 2 rhinos, skarbrand and Angron. I only got like 5 points in bring it down and i knew it would suck (though i didnt think it would go that bad). No prisoners would have given me a max of 8, and assassinate would have given me a max of 10. and stomp em good seemed hella risky against world eaters so i was really... not sure about the last one.

What do you guys normally take against world eaters?

Okay, so characters will be joining units in the coming edition, but will be permanent attachments huh? Hopefully that means their buffs can actually be half way decent. Like painboys giving their feelnopain on a 5 or something.

Same with big meks I guess. Who who knows they may keep their aura. Could bring back some of the builds of old which I'd be up for.

Beardedragon wrote:
And if i dont attempt to do something, he will just fly around and wreck my entire army

Your entire army is 4 units?

Because if you can keep him so he can't charge multiple units that's literaly maximum he can kill...

Turn 1 nothing, in deep strike.

Turn 2, kill unit.
Turn 3, kill unit
Turn 4, kill unit
Turn 5, kill unit.

That's 4 maximum. So unless your army is 4 units I very much doubt that claim.

(of course vs pure melee he might not even deep strike but as you said deep strike charge I'm assuming that's what he did)


If you spend effort trying to kill the unkillable that's damage output you don't have against be'lakor.

But you have literally these options:

a) mitigate damage. Limit him to 1 unit per his turn. If you are confident you can have cheap chaff that can tie him up for 1 turn charge those. Ultimate result is still same 4 dead units but at least bit control which unit. But if he kills that unit you just gave free kill
b) add up shooting and maybe psychic to overcome his defence. Does mean you need significant amount or he can ignore that anyway especially with 5+ fnp
c) Ghazkhull. He can't kill you any faster than you can him and max 1 heal from killing ghaz. Should leave him to be killed by one good charge. Getting ghaz to him might be issue since he doesn't want to get bogged down by it.

That's pretty much it. Pure melee infantry army doesn't kill that bloodthirster period short of some crazy dice rolling. I have used that bloodthirster myself and that's just the matter of life. You have very brief period to kill and then you run out of steam and can't overcome healing rate but if you only do damage via melee...

At least pure shooting can do damage in 2 phases per battle round. Own shooting and overwatch. Though overwatch might not help any as he can heal then in combat. I have ran over tau infantry no issues thanks to that. Charge, overwatch, take some damage, kill firewarriors/breachers, heal up.

There's no magic secret on killing that bloodthirster with infantry melee army without significant shooting. You don't. The thing is practically tailor made against such armies.

But hey good news is it's like 2.5 months maximum you have to face that Depending on how often you play vs daemons you might not even have to face it 2nd time :-)

(and even as daemon player can't say I'm too sad. It's bit of unfortunate crutch khorne daemons need but not fan of wound caps myself. Hopefully 10th gets rid of those. They can all burn in hell!)

Beardedragon wrote:
Why dont we have such a model

Mostly because despite us very much enjoying solving every problem by hitting it really hard, we actually do have other options. Daemons don't.

You just can't outfight dameons or world eaters, they are literally the best at it and you can't beat them at their own game. Completely neglecting shooting and psykers created that vulnerability in your army, I don't think you can solve this problem without changing your army.

It's official, stompa going T14.

I also expect a bump in T for our stuff and maybe invulnerable on meganobz. Thoughts?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/13/vehicles-are-even-tougher-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

With stompas being T14 (bout damn time), I'm curious what the Gorkanauts and Morkanauts will be at. 12?

Probably 12, the question to consider is if kans are gonna get a toughness bump

Guard are gonna be terrifying in 10th.

Seen rules and points then? Spill the beans!

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Probably 12, the question to consider is if kans are gonna get a toughness bump

I would hope so, if a Rhino is going to T9 and they were originally T7, I assume Killa Kanz should be T6/7 and Deff Dreads should be going to T9.

The question is, will that toughness bump matter much?

With the current wounding chart it gives a durability buff against Str9, 8 and 7. Putting 7 to wounding on 6s. A bit of help but even putting it at 9 or 10 would have had the same effect.

What would really make a difference if they ditch always wound on 6s, making the superheavy immune to small arms fire, possibly even str7 or below depending on the chart. Assuming T double than Str means it's impossible to wound like back in the day.

It would give those big superheavy units their own niche.

Yeah, the old wounding chart was much nicer to work with, gave a good bit more value to strength and toughness.

cody.d. wrote:
The question is, will that toughness bump matter much?

With the current wounding chart it gives a durability buff against Str9, 8 and 7. Putting 7 to wounding on 6s. A bit of help but even putting it at 9 or 10 would have had the same effect.

What would really make a difference if they ditch always wound on 6s, making the superheavy immune to small arms fire, possibly even str7 or below depending on the chart. Assuming T double than Str means it's impossible to wound like back in the day.

It would give those big superheavy units their own niche.

Yeah, that was part of the issue with Orks getting the T5 bump in 9th was that now bolters were effectively the same as lasguns when it came to wounding a lot of our infantry units barring the AP of the weapon. If they go back to the old wounding chart or make it less all or nothing like the way it is now, it would make the granularity of toughness more meaningful and less aimed towards taking middling level of weapons like back then where S6-7 reigned supreme since they usually had the rate of fire to take care of infantry and light vehicles.

New weapon profile details are out, advancing and shooting with assault weapons no longer gives a -1 to hit modifier and heavy weapons just give +1 to hit if you're stationary. Assuming that our dakka weapons goes back to assault, that's pretty good! Even heavy weapons like Snazzguns won't be that bad now.

Looks like my beloved Grot Mega-Tanks will be losing a bit of firepower with the new twin-link rules.

Meltas (at least infantry based ones, I assume multi-meltas will be higher strength) are also S9, so they'll be wounding our stompas and tougher vehicles on 5's, which is nice.

ccs wrote:
Looks like my beloved Grot Mega-Tanks will be losing a bit of firepower with the new twin-link rules.

How nice that you already know rules. Care to share bit for rest of us mortals limited to what GW tells us?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, the rail was announced having S20.

Will be interesting to see if melee got a buff as well. Really was expecting melta to be a bit more AT then what they’re showing so far. Hopefully there will be other stuff to keep vehicles in check.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Will be interesting to see if melee got a buff as well. Really was expecting melta to be a bit more AT then what they’re showing so far. Hopefully there will be other stuff to keep vehicles in check.

I feel like they'll be leaning into the Anti-Tank USR to make certain melee weapons do better against vehicles, as we saw with the chainfist. In our case, the Killsaw is probably going to get something similar. Our Power Klaws have always been higher strength than most faction equivalents given our base strength being higher, (at least for Warbosses/Nobz), so now that the strength stat is gone, it means we should expect S10-12 as the baseline for power klaw profile, though the Aggressor stats seems to imply that the better hitting profile will likely only apply to Meganobz.

I'm remaining hopeful about our ranged options. Heavy weapons getting a +1 to hit is huuuge for Orks, especially now that you can have multiple types on a weapon.

Sustained Hits would also be a really nice replacement for Dakka weapons.

Fingers crossed.

getting +1 to hit on heavy weapons for our infantry based, heavy weapons remains a bit useless doesnt it? or am i mistaken? Ork infantry never stand still. Otherwise we tend to be dead.

So if flash gitz and tankbustas remain heavy weapons, wouldnt they still just hit on 5s?

Im not fully sure i understand all this new data or all heavy weapons innately hit on a +4? and just get a +1 to hit when not moving?

in that case its quite good of course.

Beardedragon wrote:
getting +1 to hit on heavy weapons for our infantry based, heavy weapons remains a bit useless doesnt it? or am i mistaken? Ork infantry never stand still. Otherwise we tend to be dead.

So if flash gitz and tankbustas remain heavy weapons, wouldnt they still just hit on 5s?

Im not fully sure i understand all this new data or all heavy weapons innately hit on a +4? and just get a +1 to hit when not moving?

in that case its quite good of course.

No you hit on your bs normally(presumably most orks still at 5+ though not confirmed) and with heavy if you stay still 4+.

So tank bustas on 5+ on move, 4+ on stationary.

Assuming stats don't change still helps ork heavy weapons as do you prefer to hit on 6's or 5's on the move? Currently 6's.

Of course if they lower bs of heavy weapons(say marine devastator with lascannon has bs 4+) it's mostly the same as before. In this case tank busta would have bs 6+. This isn't different for orks but would hurt armies with better bs(4+ most) as hitting on move vs stuff with -1 to hit would be lower than before.

tneva82 wrote:

ccs wrote:
Looks like my beloved Grot Mega-Tanks will be losing a bit of firepower with the new twin-link rules.

How nice that you already know rules. Care to share bit for rest of us mortals limited to what GW tells us?

If you care to you too could go read the article about 10e weapons on GWs community site.....

Scroll down to the bit about the assault bolter gauntlets - shooting & melee.
It tells you what the TL rule is.
I've no reason to believe twin link will work differently for orks (or my Grots) than it does fir the SM in the example.

Of course I am making the assumption that my grot Mega-Tanks will still have two turrets that both have TL weapons....