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I bought the starter set and it came yesterday. I've never used GW Contrast paints, so these are my first paints of this type. I painted the Gourd Reaper II for Don't Look Back today

White spray primer, regular black in eyes, nose and mouth, rest is Speedpaint.





Was kind of like using inks to paint. I really like the orange, a color I have had trouble with in the past. I think the figure came out decently for the few minutes it took to paint it up.

 CptJake wrote:
I think the figure came out decently for the few minutes it took to paint it up.

I think it came out pretty damn awesome.

I do like the way they look on the flatter surfaces, it's undeniably a lot smoother than contrast. Still can't see myself picking them up unless they sort out the bleeding, but I really hope they do as they really do look very nice with one coat

The Gourd Reaper came out great!

A friend picked up the speedpaint starter set and has been messing around with them. He thinks the reactivation issue is one of drying time, says that if he allows 12-16 hours between layers he notices significantly less reactivation, than he does after 2-4 hours between layers, and little/no reactivation if hew waits 24+ hours between layers.

Not sure how true it is as I haven't seen it in action myself, but I was with him when he first started playing around with them and I explained to him the reactivation issue which he then later observed himself. Hopefully theres something to it.

He say if that includes other non speedpaint layers? Definitely bleeding through for me after about 20, but it'll be 40+ from first application by the time I get home. I did drop some vallejo cold white on it at said 20 hour point, is that likely to reset the dry time, or not matter?

chaos0xomega wrote:
A friend picked up the speedpaint starter set and has been messing around with them. He thinks the reactivation issue is one of drying time, says that if he allows 12-16 hours between layers he notices significantly less reactivation, than he does after 2-4 hours between layers, and little/no reactivation if hew waits 24+ hours between layers.

Not sure how true it is as I haven't seen it in action myself, but I was with him when he first started playing around with them and I explained to him the reactivation issue which he then later observed himself. Hopefully theres something to it.

See this post from Army Painter's twitter account about how once cured (which can take up to a week depending on the local climate) takes care of any reactivation issues.

I wonder how much a blowdryer can help that process?

So what I'm gathering is these are in fact slowpaints for anything but mostly monochrome units.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I wonder how much a blowdryer can help that process?

Juan Hidalgo on YT said he used a hairdryer and still had reactivation. In fact he commented that he hair dryered some models, then the same models even the next day were still prone to reactivation. Perhaps he didn't use the hair dryer long enough, he's very adept with GW's contrast paints so maybe he *thought* he had hair dried them long enough but hadn't.





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 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
So what I'm gathering is these are in fact slowpaints for anything but mostly monochrome units.

After all of this the main thing I'm interested in now is whether Speed paints are easy to blend. Many moons ago when I painted my Lizardmen blood bowl team, I airbrushed a basecoat but then to do the shading I mixed lots of drying retarder into washes and that let me wash the blue areas, then wash the bone coloured areas, then wash the purple areas, and blend the washes on the model. However even with drying retarder it was pretty messy, and without the underlying airbrush it'd look pretty ugly. Maybe with speed paints this could be done without having to use an airbrush?

I painted over the speedpaint orange with vallejo white three times. After 1, 5 and 12 days. Unthinned. It still turned the white into an orangey off-white.
So, no. Time does not solve the problem. That stuff is really aggressive.

On an upnote, you can utilise this. The beige speedpaint is much too dark, so I drybrushed over it in white, and it bled through, making the highlight more subtle. Depending on how daring you are, you could drybrush the whole miniature in white and it would turn the white colour into a highlite of the appropriate base colour.

 Garfield666 wrote:
I painted over the speedpaint orange with vallejo white three times. After 1, 5 and 12 days. Unthinned. It still turned the white into an orangey off-white.
So, no. Time does not solve the problem. That stuff is really aggressive.

On an upnote, you can utilise this. The beige speedpaint is much too dark, so I drybrushed over it in white, and it bled through, making the highlight more subtle. Depending on how daring you are, you could drybrush the whole miniature in white and it would turn the white colour into a highlite of the appropriate base colour.

That's practically a selling point to me.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
So what I'm gathering is these are in fact slowpaints for anything but mostly monochrome units.

They're going to be slower if you're looking to apply other paints over the top of them, but that's not what they're intended for. There's nothing stopping you from painting multi-coloured models with them, you're just likelyt to have some colour bleed around the edges if you paint outside the lines. For people more interested in speed than neatness, that bleeding is not necessarily a problem.

Vejut wrote:
He say if that includes other non speedpaint layers? Definitely bleeding through for me after about 20, but it'll be 40+ from first application by the time I get home. I did drop some vallejo cold white on it at said 20 hour point, is that likely to reset the dry time, or not matter?

Yeah he said no reactivation with additional layers of speedpaint, he said certain regular/nonspeedpaints seemed to have some reactivation problems even after 24 hrs but not all (it could be a color dependenf thing?).

 insaniak wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
So what I'm gathering is these are in fact slowpaints for anything but mostly monochrome units.

They're going to be slower if you're looking to apply other paints over the top of them, but that's not what they're intended for. There's nothing stopping you from painting multi-coloured models with them, you're just likelyt to have some colour bleed around the edges if you paint outside the lines. For people more interested in speed than neatness, that bleeding is not necessarily a problem.

Okay, but we all make mistakes when applying a basecoat to a primed model. Are we going to have to wait a week of Speedpaint curing to do touch-ups? I don't have to do that with Contrast- 20-30 minutes max.

 themonk wrote:

Okay, but we all make mistakes when applying a basecoat to a primed model. Are we going to have to wait a week of Speedpaint curing to do touch-ups? I don't have to do that with Contrast- 20-30 minutes max.

At this point, the curing time seems to be hugely variable depending on individual conditions. My point was that the people these paints are primarily aimed at aren't particularly concerned with touch-ups, just with getting models painted quickly and looking 'good enough' for the table. Unless you're particularly messy, Speedpaint without touch-ups is still going to get you a quick paintjob that looks at least as good as most of the various pre-painted miniature ranges that have come and gone over the years... and for many gamers, that's more than good enough.

If you do want to be able to make those touch-ups, and the curing time is an issue for you, then this isn't going to be the product for you.

 insaniak wrote:
My point was that the people these paints are primarily aimed at aren't particularly concerned with touch-ups, just with getting models painted quickly and looking 'good enough' for the table.

I would still argue a speed painting method would typically involve touch ups. Like, it's quicker to just paint a blood angel entirely red then come back to touch up the joints between the armour than it is to try and stay within the lines when laying down the red.

chaos0xomega wrote:
A friend picked up the speedpaint starter set and has been messing around with them. He thinks the reactivation issue is one of drying time, says that if he allows 12-16 hours between layers he notices significantly less reactivation, than he does after 2-4 hours between layers, and little/no reactivation if hew waits 24+ hours between layers.

Not sure how true it is as I haven't seen it in action myself, but I was with him when he first started playing around with them and I explained to him the reactivation issue which he then later observed himself. Hopefully theres something to it.

A blog friend of mine pre-ordered the big set, and has a series of posts where he uses them, tests drying time, etc. I'd suggest they're worth reading before spending big on a full set rather than a couple of samplers - do your homework, caveat emptor.
https://bogenwald.blog/2022/02/22/test-run-with-new-paints/

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I would still argue a speed painting method would typically involve touch ups. Like, it's quicker to just paint a blood angel entirely red then come back to touch up the joints between the armour than it is to try and stay within the lines when laying down the red.

Sure, if you're doing a model that is predominantly one colour, it's often quickest to do the whole model first and then go over it. And that's a process that would potentially have to change with these specific paints... although if you're doing the joints in black, a little bit of red bleeding through isn't really going to be much of an issue. Ultimately, though, these paints are going to be at their best if you treat it like 'colouring in' the model and try to stay as much as possible inside the lines for each colour. Or just throwing on a quick coat of varnish once you have done that main colour.

 insaniak wrote:

They're going to be slower if you're looking to apply other paints over the top of them, but that's not what they're intended for.

People keep saying that, but unless you can point out to me where AP specifically made a statement to that effect, you're just water carrying for a corporation and putting your assumptions out there retroactively.

"They didn't say you could just paint over them with normal hobby paint" is a BS strawman argument, as there's an unlimited number of things that anyoune could claim that "they didn't say" that are also pretty much standard parts of painting.

They also "didn't say" that you should not paint over them, not did they say that bleedthrough was an issue/result of doing so.

 Azazelx wrote:

People keep saying that, but unless you can point out to me where AP specifically made a statement to that effect, you're just water carrying for a corporation and putting your assumptions out there retroactively.

It's already been discussed. Speedpaint was marketed as a 'one coat solution'. The fact that we all jumped the gun and assumed that it would just be a slightly cheaper but otherwise identical version of Contrast doesn't change that.

I'm fairly sure I already mentioned earlier in the thread that I think it would have been better for them to have been upfront about the bleeding issue. It would certainly be nice at this point if there was more clarity on exactly what the conditions are that make it happen, since it doesn't seem to be universal.

We'll just have to wait and see whether the price difference and smoother coverage are enough to make up for them not being as versatile as Contrast. But I definitely think there is a segment of the painting community for whom these will be perfectly adequate.

Man, so much for these being the Contrast-Killer some were hyping them up to be...

 Azazelx wrote:
A blog friend of mine pre-ordered the big set, and has a series of posts where he uses them, tests drying time, etc. I'd suggest they're worth reading before spending big on a full set rather than a couple of samplers - do your homework, caveat emptor.
https://bogenwald.blog/2022/02/22/test-run-with-new-paints/

From Bogenwald's blog, he experimented painting white over a 6mm red flag that was allowed to dry for 24 hours. Enjoy your blending, I guess?

Much like Contrast, I think this is a product that is not for me, but I'm glad it exists for the target demo even if I am not in it.

Really appreciate the people taking the time to post their minis painted with it on here and sharing their experiences.

 insaniak wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I would still argue a speed painting method would typically involve touch ups. Like, it's quicker to just paint a blood angel entirely red then come back to touch up the joints between the armour than it is to try and stay within the lines when laying down the red.

Sure, if you're doing a model that is predominantly one colour, it's often quickest to do the whole model first and then go over it.

Yeah, so speed paint, that's speedy in some situations and not others.

One of my gripes is mainly that the target audience for these likely isn't going to realise things like that until after they have headaches with it.

The target audience aren't all painting Space Marines.

But, again, at worst it's one extra step to throw a thin coat of varnish over the first layer of Speedpaint.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Man, so much for these being the Contrast-Killer some were hyping them up to be...

Depends, Contrast was market as solution get armies done fast

and from the comments here, no one uses them that way as they are used as base for advanced techniques or instead of washes/inks/oils
and they don't work on flat surfaces, some colours need medium to work well, need the special primer for best effect etc.

so in the case of get things done fast, it is the Contrast Killer, cheaper, works better on flat surfaces, all colours work straight out of the bottle, tries faster but you can still remove errors with water later, gives better effect on standard primer or black/white surfaces

the downside is: does not replace Contrast, Oil Washes or Acrylic Inks for advanced painting techniques (and I never thought there will be so many MasterClass painter in a Speedpaint topic), seems to need a Primer that soaks up colour more (aka Standard AP Primer), need Varnish (which is recommended for gaming models anyway, and for display models why are you even looking for SpeedPaints)


PS: and I never understood why people did not know about "Speed Painting" until Contrast came up, this was already done that way 20 years ago with the original Citadel Inks, after they were gone with standard Acrylic Inks or Oils Washes, than with the original Citadel Washes and after they were gone again with Acrylic Inks or Oils Washes.
You neither need AP nor GW to do it, as long as you don't mind mixing colours, so the Contrast Killer was available long before Contrast existed

 insaniak wrote:
The target audience aren't all painting Space Marines.

That's just one example though.

But, again, at worst it's one extra step to throw a thin coat of varnish over the first layer of Speedpaint.

Doesn't sound very speedy.


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 kodos wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Man, so much for these being the Contrast-Killer some were hyping them up to be...

Depends, Contrast was market as solution get armies done fast

and from the comments here, no one uses them that way as they are used as base for advanced techniques or instead of washes/inks/oils
and they don't work on flat surfaces, some colours need medium to work well, need the special primer for best effect etc.

I think many (most?) people do use them for speed painting, just not "one coat over primer and done" speed painting. They'll do an edge highlight, they'll do a bit more shading with regular washes, they'll start with a coloured undercoat to increase vibrancy, they'll actually touch up mistakes... but they're still basically using it to save time.

PS: and I never understood why people did not know about "Speed Painting" until Contrast came up, this was already done that way 20 years ago with the original Citadel Inks, after they were gone with standard Acrylic Inks or Oils Washes, than with the original Citadel Washes and after they were gone again with Acrylic Inks or Oils Washes.

Back in the days of the original citadel inks, most people didn't really know how to use them properly. I certainly didn't, nor did any of my friends who used them.

GW then swapped to washes that didn't have the one-coat power of inks, but were easier to use.

Inks and stuff started to rise in popularity again before Contrast became a thing, but when Contrasts came out they were just kinda easier to use in that role. They're more paint-like and less ink-like.

But yeah, my local hobby store carries a couple of different ranges of inks. Though if you want a broad selection of colours, artists' inks become expensive and you'll end up spending more than you would have spent on GW's contrasts.

Yeah, looking back on the early days were everything but a Goblin Green base was a revolution while at the same time the guys from the railway modelling looked down on "us" for not knowing the basics about "basing"

Doing the beginner painting workshops in the club was always different for those who learned painting with GW is you needed to point out the obvious that was never shown in White Dwarf (the 4 step guides were 90% that happened between step 3 and 4 was never shown)


I agree, for the more common form of speed painting, were mixed techniques are used, those are not the colours you are looking for, and Contrast made this available for those who learn painting with GW.

also something we have done in the past was painting with Inks/Washes/Oils 1-2 hours in the evening and let them dry until the next evening
it was not fast because of the long down time between steps, but it was still speed painting and you got an army done within a week

the AP Speedpaint speed painting is more like a low effort painting rather than fast painting needing its own technique

Well, if you cannot paint over them without issues, they really are a "one coat solution"