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Well, GSC's codex is about a month away, so hopefully they'll fix it there. That, along with the price increase to Dark Lances and Admech Laser Chickens could mean that gw realizes that they've made vehicles too squishy. The increases on Dark Lances and Laser Chickens were good, now let's see if they do the same with multi-meltas......
Multi-melta is so rare in the competitive scene. At this point its volcons all the way down, but those are a crutch keeping marines floating. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eradicator points go back down at this point.
Well, GSC's codex is about a month away, so hopefully they'll fix it there. That, along with the price increase to Dark Lances and Admech Laser Chickens could mean that gw realizes that they've made vehicles too squishy. The increases on Dark Lances and Laser Chickens were good, now let's see if they do the same with multi-meltas......
Multi-melta is so rare in the competitive scene. At this point its volcons all the way down, but those are a crutch keeping marines floating. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eradicator points go back down at this point.
No one is leaving their tanks at home because of volcons. The boost to the Leman Russ's save shows that GW knows that they need help in the durability department, and the increase in price to Dark Lances and Laser Chickens shows that they know that the new AT weapons are too cheap. Multi-meltas are too cheap. Period. It doesn't matter if tournament players are spamming them or not. And we know tournament players "build for the meta". If nobody is bringing heavy armour, they won't be bringing anything to deal with it. Multi-meltas being rare at tournaments doesn't mean they need a buff, it just means there's no reason for tournament players to bring it.
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
99% sure that GSC has their own LR datasheet, so that's a problem.
Well, GSC's codex is about a month away, so hopefully they'll fix it there. That, along with the price increase to Dark Lances and Admech Laser Chickens could mean that gw realizes that they've made vehicles too squishy. The increases on Dark Lances and Laser Chickens were good, now let's see if they do the same with multi-meltas......
Odds are pretty good that the GSC codex already went to print, their Russes are a 3+ save, and will need to be fixed in the 'day 1' FAQ that comes out a month later.
Voss wrote: Odds are pretty good that the GSC codex already went to print, their Russes are a 3+ save, and will need to be fixed in the 'day 1' FAQ that comes out a month later.
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
99% sure that GSC has their own LR datasheet, so that's a problem.
Well, GSC's codex is about a month away, so hopefully they'll fix it there. That, along with the price increase to Dark Lances and Admech Laser Chickens could mean that gw realizes that they've made vehicles too squishy. The increases on Dark Lances and Laser Chickens were good, now let's see if they do the same with multi-meltas......
At the risk of cutting my own throat (it's okay, I left a sample with the Haemonculus), dark lances could probably do with being more expensive than disintegrators across all platforms rather than just the Raider...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/11 02:07:42
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
99% sure that GSC has their own LR datasheet, so that's a problem.
Well, GSC's codex is about a month away, so hopefully they'll fix it there. That, along with the price increase to Dark Lances and Admech Laser Chickens could mean that gw realizes that they've made vehicles too squishy. The increases on Dark Lances and Laser Chickens were good, now let's see if they do the same with multi-meltas......
Odds are pretty good that the GSC codex already went to print, their Russes are a 3+ save, and will need to be fixed in the 'day 1' FAQ that comes out a month later.
I'd pretty much guarantee it's already gone to print. But it's possible that the change to the Leman Russ's save is already in there, and they're just giving it to the Guard now, same as they updated heavy bolters, meltas, lighting claws, etc to coincide with the loyalist codex. But in the codex, or "day 1" FAQ, GSC will probably get it when their codex drops.
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
Do they change out the "ASTRA MILITARUM" keyword for something appropriate to their faction, though, in either case?
On the upside, the way everything seems to be phrased on page 1 of the PDF, it looks like the save change and the TC orders change would both apply to appropriate Forge World vehicles, which is an improvement on their normal approach to these patches.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
No one is leaving their tanks at home because of volcons. The boost to the Leman Russ's save shows that GW knows that they need help in the durability department, and the increase in price to Dark Lances and Laser Chickens shows that they know that the new AT weapons are too cheap. Multi-meltas are too cheap. Period. It doesn't matter if tournament players are spamming them or not. And we know tournament players "build for the meta". If nobody is bringing heavy armour, they won't be bringing anything to deal with it. Multi-meltas being rare at tournaments doesn't mean they need a buff, it just means there's no reason for tournament players to bring it.
More dark lances (and more multimeltas for imperium armies) would have made impossible for the ork player to 1 shot his opponents.
What's better than dedicated anti tank to bring down vehicle based lists? According to the internet Freeboota Speedwaaagh lists are (or were) OP as hell, so why leaving effective anti tank at home? Because it's overpriced and almost useless against other armies?
Welcome to the rock/paper/scissor attitude. Multimeltas are definitely too cheap.
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
Do they change out the "ASTRA MILITARUM" keyword for something appropriate to their faction, though, in either case?
On the upside, the way everything seems to be phrased on page 1 of the PDF, it looks like the save change and the TC orders change would both apply to appropriate Forge World vehicles, which is an improvement on their normal approach to these patches.
R&H trade out IMPERIUM for CHAOS, and <REGIMENT> for <RENEGADES AND HERETICS>, but bizarrely, keep ASTRA MILITARUM on any units that we can take from the Asta Milatarum codex or their Imperial Armour Compendium list.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Unit1126PLL wrote: Glad to see that the internet agitation succeeded, hopefully people won't let up and we can continue to pressure GW to actually fix their game.
This is good.
In the same breath there are some people on the internets claiming this is worse because books are outdated faster, they can't keep track etc. so impossible to please everyone. Just glad they made these optional so it's down to each group how current they stay.
Those people have a point too.
GW should release balanced codexes from the start so they don't HAVE to invalidate them with a balance patch.
That argument is not inconsistent with "well they did a gakky job on the dexes so a balance patch is good". It's just the next step: "maybe don't do a gakky job on the dexes."
I genuinely want someone to show me a game that was perfectly balanced from the start. Because I want to see this unicorn.
Well I know warhammer is a totally new game made but a totally new company so yeah it takes awhile to find balance...wait a minute....
they couldn't fix the outlier planes, no.. feth planes entirely i guess.
Indeed that would be less of an issue if all armies had an AA unit, or a plane... alas can't have that.. better to throw the missile launcher no bone at all and remain ardent that AA missiles are an stratagem....
Dude, you know AA missiles are so rare and powerful they could only be a strat, duh. Just like a vehicles smoke launchers, surely such high tech gubbins couldn't be used more than once a turn. It would lead to mass hysteria !
My airmobile Scion list is now no longer playable, so yeah I feel you.
The irony is that i Just played a tournament with my Alphork Strike list and went 3 and 0. My closest game was against a Scion Air mobile list because he basically took away most of my 1st turn targets since I have very little ranged firepower.
Super fluffy and it was a blast to play against. another ham fisted move by GW.
Same here, I have a small scion army that is basically 3 scion squads all in Valkyries and a Vulture for support, super fun and fluffy, and in no way OP. Illegal now.
callocx wrote: So.. more inconsistency from GW. Leman Russes are Sv 2+... unless of course a heretic, renegade or genestealer cultist is driving it. Then 3+.
Makes sense. I guess the Emperor protects!
Not sure about GSC, but R&H use the Guard datasheet for our Leman Russes. So, apparently, the Corpse God doesn't do that much after all.
99% sure that GSC has their own LR datasheet, so that's a problem.
The GSC rip off the extra armor because they are crazy, there's your fluff. You're welcome.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/11 10:30:43
Blackie wrote: More dark lances (and more multimeltas for imperium armies) would have made impossible for the ork player to 1 shot his opponents.
What's better than dedicated anti tank to bring down vehicle based lists? According to the internet Freeboota Speedwaaagh lists are (or were) OP as hell, so why leaving effective anti tank at home? Because it's overpriced and almost useless against other armies?
Welcome to the rock/paper/scissor attitude. Multimeltas are definitely too cheap.
The issue is that ravagers were just bad.
Shoot say a 140 point 3 lance ravager at a Dakkajet.
3 shots. 1.5 hits. 1 wound. 5 damage. So 50 points for 140=35% return.
Dakkajet by contrast into a ravager: 42 shots, 14 hits, 7 wounds, 4.66 damage, so 59.4 damage for 120 points - just shy of 50% return.
Freebooters potentially lifts that Ork score to 75% - I think the blackheart reroll pushes the ravager up to about 45%.
The points reduction on the ravager changes improve things a bit - i.e. the ravager goes up to a 38.5% return, and the Dakkajet goes down to a 45% return - but throwing in Freebooters and the gap could still be considerable.
Shooting at say a buggy with a 5++ is much the same but worse - meanwhile ramshackle makes the disintegrator completely worthless.
Its classic 40k creep. The hard anti-tank has rendered a range of *bad* vehicles (relatively expensive with no defenses like invuls and minuses to hit) unplayable. Speedwaaagh however is powerful precisely because it has a decent chance to shrug this stuff off (either by going first and just killing it - or being lucky on going second). They will however die to a range of other things which are being thrown up the curve.
35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
Spoletta wrote: 35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
I'm not sure things having 55-60% returns is good for the game - but if that's where the power curve currently lies, units which aren't putting that out are unlikely to be competitive.
Comparing what two units deal do each other is a worthless metric, because not every unit is equally good against every target.
You need to have both shoot the same thing to compare them. Traditional, you use GEQ, MEQ and rhinos for this.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Spoletta wrote: 35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
I'm not sure things having 55-60% returns is good for the game - but if that's where the power curve currently lies, units which aren't putting that out are unlikely to be competitive.
55-60% are perfectly fine for a specialized weapon into its target. Depending how safe you are after taking the shot, even 100% is fine.
It has been like this at least since I started playing in 5th edition, so it's not really a recent thing.
How much return did you have with melta pods in 5th? Yeah, higher than 100%. That was a specialized weapon into its intended target which was very unsafe after taking the shot. Those metrics never really changed.
Blackie wrote: More dark lances (and more multimeltas for imperium armies) would have made impossible for the ork player to 1 shot his opponents.
What's better than dedicated anti tank to bring down vehicle based lists? According to the internet Freeboota Speedwaaagh lists are (or were) OP as hell, so why leaving effective anti tank at home? Because it's overpriced and almost useless against other armies?
Welcome to the rock/paper/scissor attitude. Multimeltas are definitely too cheap.
The issue is that ravagers were just bad.
Shoot say a 140 point 3 lance ravager at a Dakkajet.
3 shots. 1.5 hits. 1 wound. 5 damage. So 50 points for 140=35% return.
Dakkajet by contrast into a ravager: 42 shots, 14 hits, 7 wounds, 4.66 damage, so 59.4 damage for 120 points - just shy of 50% return.
Freebooters potentially lifts that Ork score to 75% - I think the blackheart reroll pushes the ravager up to about 45%.
The points reduction on the ravager changes improve things a bit - i.e. the ravager goes up to a 38.5% return, and the Dakkajet goes down to a 45% return - but throwing in Freebooters and the gap could still be considerable.
Shooting at say a buggy with a 5++ is much the same but worse - meanwhile ramshackle makes the disintegrator completely worthless.
Its classic 40k creep. The hard anti-tank has rendered a range of *bad* vehicles (relatively expensive with no defenses like invuls and minuses to hit) unplayable. Speedwaaagh however is powerful precisely because it has a decent chance to shrug this stuff off (either by going first and just killing it - or being lucky on going second). They will however die to a range of other things which are being thrown up the curve.
Ravager has never been bad. A lot of armies would kill for 140 points ravagers, let alone 130ppm ones .
Dakkajet is definitely undercosted and also a flyer, not exactly the same thing. And they shouldn't be compared in damage output either unless assuming the ravager is kitted with dis cannons, as lances are pure anti tank. Before tools to enhance the shots a ravager gets 2 hits with S8 AP-4 D3+3 while the dakkajet gets 12 S6 AP-1 D1 hits. Vs T7/8 models ravagers are much better than dakkajets.
Spoletta wrote: 35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
I'm not sure things having 55-60% returns is good for the game - but if that's where the power curve currently lies, units which aren't putting that out are unlikely to be competitive.
55-60% returns is very good. Of course in army full of OP stuff it might not look that good .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/11 11:53:47
Spoletta wrote: 35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
I'm not sure things having 55-60% returns is good for the game - but if that's where the power curve currently lies, units which aren't putting that out are unlikely to be competitive.
55-60% are perfectly fine for a specialized weapon into its target. Depending how safe you are after taking the shot, even 100% is fine.
It has been like this at least since I started playing in 5th edition, so it's not really a recent thing.
How much return did you have with melta pods in 5th? Yeah, higher than 100%. That was a specialized weapon into its intended target which was very unsafe after taking the shot. Those metrics never really changed.
If you need less than 3xpoints to deal with unit you have game that's too lethal.
50% is too good. 75% is ridiculous. 100% is bonker noob game designer level.
Jidmah wrote: Comparing what two units deal do each other is a worthless metric, because not every unit is equally good against every target.
You need to have both shoot the same thing to compare them. Traditional, you use GEQ, MEQ and rhinos for this.
We've had this debate before - but I don't really agree, because two armies end up shooting each other on the table.
So if one is expecting to get 50-60% returns, and the other 30-40% returns, its not a huge surprise the former has an advantage in the matchup.
Its telling you different things than a comparison of how many guardsmen/intercessors/rhinos you'd expect to two different units to kill.
I raise the Ravagers because Blackie (and others) have been telling people in numerous threads on Speedwaaagh/SoCal Final, "ho ho ho, venoms deserve to die to Speedwaaagh, what can you expect, if the DE player had taken anti-tank he'd have been fine". I've hopefully demonstrated that Ravagers would not be *fine* - they'd die just as quickly without expecting to contribute all that much. And people don't take them because they just aren't that good unless your opponent were to bring units that are generally considered bad (i.e. Predator tier stuff)
The fact a ravager is say twice as good versus rhinos than a dakkajet would only really matter if you were regularly running into rhinos in games.
Spoletta wrote: 35% isn't exactly a low return. It is what you expect on average.
Now, here we are looking at darklances shooting into a sub T8 vehicle without invul, which is pretty much the ideal target, even if the -1 to hit isn't nice. The ravager is also a quite glassy model (but long ranged),so 55-60% return wouldn't be that strange.
I'm not sure things having 55-60% returns is good for the game - but if that's where the power curve currently lies, units which aren't putting that out are unlikely to be competitive.
55-60% are perfectly fine for a specialized weapon into its target. Depending how safe you are after taking the shot, even 100% is fine.
It has been like this at least since I started playing in 5th edition, so it's not really a recent thing.
How much return did you have with melta pods in 5th? Yeah, higher than 100%. That was a specialized weapon into its intended target which was very unsafe after taking the shot. Those metrics never really changed.
If you need less than 3xpoints to deal with unit you have game that's too lethal.
50% is too good. 75% is ridiculous. 100% is bonker noob game designer level.
Nope, you are confusing average lethality with instant lethality.
Average lethality over 33% is indeed an issue.
Instant lethality can be 100% without issues.
All point based games I can think of have cases of instant lethality at 100% or even well over it.
I don't think that all the games I played were bonker noob game design level.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: Listen, I’ve picked up some armigers to loot, these things are knight sized.
Also, if you’re all concerned about orks shooting things off turn one, prepare for when Tau come out
...I mean, they are not. Armigers are on big round bases IIRC, and the proper knights are on bigger oval bases.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
I dont think so. knights maybe, but to use CSM as an example Tsons and DG both got rid of DTTFE - as well as shock assault, they just gave them all +1A.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Gadzilla666 wrote: Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
I dont think so. knights maybe, but to use CSM as an example Tsons and DG both got rid of DTTFE - as well as shock assault, they just gave them all +1A.
Right, but DG got what is basically "+1 to wound in melee" against most other infantry to compensate, and 1ksons aren't generally considered a "stabby" Legion. I'm thinking CSM lose Hateful Assault, get +1A, and get the "new DTTFE". If CSM lose Hateful Assault and DTTFE with no other compensation, then they'll be a less melee focused faction than DG, and on equal footing with the magic and ranged focused 1ksons. That doesn't feel right.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
I dont think so. knights maybe, but to use CSM as an example Tsons and DG both got rid of DTTFE - as well as shock assault, they just gave them all +1A.
I think it is possible that CSM will get +1W +1A in many of their datasheets. But then also get the new DTTFE as their super doctrine for going pure CSM.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
I dont think so. knights maybe, but to use CSM as an example Tsons and DG both got rid of DTTFE - as well as shock assault, they just gave them all +1A.
I think it is possible that CSM will get +1W +1A in many of their datasheets. But then also get the new DTTFE as their super doctrine for going pure CSM.
Hoo boy, if that's true there's going to be a lot of pleased blood donors and skull stackers.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Before this devolves into a math-hammer comparison between a unit knitted out for AT and another kitted out for anti-infantry, does anyone else think that the updates for Guard, Knights, and CSM look less like "get you by" rules and more like "some of your 9th edition codex rules early"? These look a lot like what you'd expect to make those factions work in 9th edition games, especially Knights.
It might be because Covid seems to have genuinely messed up the release schedule something fierce. GK/TS were meant to be out in March I think one playtester said? The way things are going, some armies won't get their 9th codexes until a few months before 10th (although I'm sure GW would be fine with that) and with the seemingly intentional power creep to 9th codexes so many of them would be left all but unplayable as to hurt sales something fierce, even by GW's usual shoddy writing standards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/11 14:13:40
With all respect for companies like GW who took this seriously, COVID has been around for a bit now, and they have been back to operating regularly for some time now. They staggered for 4 months or so, and then went back to business as usual.
They managed to have indexes with datasheets ready for every single color of loyalist, even for those who got their books a few months later. If there was no pandemic, CSM players would still have waited over a year for their second wound, while GW went through extra effort to make sure that Space Wolves didn't fall behind for the three months unit they got their supplement.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/11 14:28:27
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
No one is leaving their tanks at home because of volcons. The boost to the Leman Russ's save shows that 
