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A speedboss in an all infantry army isn't rounded in any way. I do accept the argument that it's a plastic HQ that isn't repeated from their Combat Patrol, but still, urgh.

Andykp wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
The only bubble needs to be bursted is the one that assumes everyone wants or is happy with what you personally want or are happy with as gamer, competitive or not.

Box is bad for some and good for others for different reasons and thats all good but the moment you go on a tangent claiming who ever does it differently is "WRONG" and is "malicious and harmful for the community" then yeah keep the drama to yourself.

Be competitive be casual be collector be all that, just dont be a party pooper cause you dont understand divergent points and levels of enjoyment.

Sorry, but you clearly are lacking both the experience and the knowledge to understand any of the posts about the ork army. A player will absolute not get any enjoyment out of an army built from this box, no matter how casual this environment its. It doesn't even make sense from a fluff perspective.
A marine box messed up to the same level would be having a rhino, two squads of primaris crusaders, a squad of wulfen, Calgar and a ravenwing dark talon. And, yes that's a legal army to play, guess why no one is running stuff like this?

I have suggested a multitude of ork archetypes that are by no standards competitive, but will build into lists that are fun to play in a casual environment, make enjoyable crusade forces and allow you to fight someone who started out the same way you did on an equal level. And those lists tend to survive meta changes with no issues, since they already aren't meta.
Heck, if I was as WAAC as you are claiming, why would I suggest for people to buy the combat patrol?

You are merely a CAAC claiming moral high ground for no reason whatsoever. Intentionally setting up others to fail is wrong, malicious and harmful to the community, no matter how high you think of yourself for ignoring the list building part of the hobby.

The one point I surrender is what JWBS said - the extra models are free, if you sell them, you get a good deal on the models you want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andykp wrote:
Jidmah is not on some moral crusade to save players from mediocrity. Just accept there are other ways to play. This box set would make me very happy if I didn’t already have an ORK army and some one got me it because I like the stories I have read about ORKS. I would would be pleased as punch. I would paint it up and make up back ground for the units and have a blast. And if I played against someone like you guys I would lose most likely but I doubt that would happen.

The irony is that someone could still enjoy your way of playing the game if they followed the advice given not just by me, but by at least 5 different veteran ork players in this thread.

Meanwhile, everyone following your advice that is playing in another way than you will be set up for failure.

You are the one not accepting that there are other ways to play, not me.

The sheer arrogance of this post is mind blowing. Utterly mind blowing. More your response to NAVARRO than to me. To me you go along with more of the old “I’m right your wrong so there!” Rubbish that I am used to from you. But in the first part is pure unadulterated arrogance.

The idea that a box with a warboss, mek, 2 squads of boyz, some Nobz, grotz and a flyer is some who the equivalent of an army gathered from 3 or 4 different codexs is bollocks. Fluff wise, that should be be the basis of most ORK armies. It is the basic ORK household, even if the boss is on a bike. It just isn’t one of your competitive build “archetypes”.

The Boss doesn't synergize with any of the Infantry Orks, and only helps the Dakkajet, the Boyz are a monopose kit built as badly as possible when it comes to the rules of the game and don't have any HQ that can support them, the Mek has no vehicles to repair other than the single Flyer that's going to be out of the range of his ability 90% of the time, the Gretchin are just an awful unit and there's nobody in the box that synergizes with them...

This is pretty much just a jumble of random units that don't remotely work togather, and pretending they're in any way a coherent force is laughable.

Andykp wrote:


The sheer arrogance of this post is mind blowing. Utterly mind blowing. More your response to NAVARRO than to me. To me you go along with more of the old “I’m right your wrong so there!” Rubbish that I am used to from you. But in the first part is pure unadulterated arrogance.

The idea that a box with a warboss, mek, 2 squads of boyz, some Nobz, grotz and a flyer is some who the equivalent of an army gathered from 3 or 4 different codexs is bollocks. Fluff wise, that should be be the basis of most ORK armies. It is the basic ORK household, even if the boss is on a bike. It just isn’t one of your competitive build “archetypes”.

You come across as a) rude, b) arrogant and c) so narrow minded that you cannot accept there other ways to build an army. Get a grip mate. As for your response to me you demonstrate again that the only way you can see the game being enjoyed is your way. Anything else is failure apparently. Failing at what exactly I don’t know, failing at enjoyment? At being happy? At life in general? Who knows? Ridiculous.

Yeah typical behaviour really, no wonder they see loads of people leaving their Wargame group... Its not the content of the boxes or advices or different ways of enjoying the hobby that does that, its just the inability they have to understand differences and continuous scream to others- YOUR WRONG! If they do things differently... Move along and ignore I would say.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
A speedboss in an all infantry army isn't rounded in any way. I do accept the argument that it's a plastic HQ that isn't repeated from their Combat Patrol, but still, urgh.

These aren't full armies though. Are they even 1k?

And funny enough some don't enjoy just spamming one thing.

And the way gw works eventually current sc "competive" armies are junk and stuff from here op and then the sc "competive" players rush to buy this at full price. Gw knows how to exploit sc "competive" lemmings.

Does anyone know how much these boxes cost? At the end of the day, the point of these boxes is the savings. After all, how many Intercessors do I really need?

We won't know prices until closer to release.

 Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote:
Does anyone know how much these boxes cost? At the end of the day, the point of these boxes is the savings. After all, how many Intercessors do I really need?

This is the big unknown in the current discussion.
Larger discount would make these boxes more valuable even if the content seems to be competitive to a lesser extent.

Dudeface wrote:
The ork box isn't a competitive army, nor the basis for one *now* but if you want a rounded ork force for casual play/painting/collecting or just to future proof or have an array to select from, it's really not that bad.

My point exactly. But apparently we are wrong and don’t know how to succeed at hobbying properly.

Andykp wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The ork box isn't a competitive army, nor the basis for one *now* but if you want a rounded ork force for casual play/painting/collecting or just to future proof or have an array to select from, it's really not that bad.

My point exactly. But apparently we are wrong and don’t know how to succeed at hobbying properly.

It's not even a rounded Ork force for casual play though. It's a rag-tag collection of random units that never work togather and never will.

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

I personally find it laughable that people can only see a unit for what it can do on the battle field, when the fluff is what brings people to the game over the decades and people are always slating the rules off for being rubbish. ,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Andykp wrote:


The sheer arrogance of this post is mind blowing. Utterly mind blowing. More your response to NAVARRO than to me. To me you go along with more of the old “I’m right your wrong so there!” Rubbish that I am used to from you. But in the first part is pure unadulterated arrogance.

The idea that a box with a warboss, mek, 2 squads of boyz, some Nobz, grotz and a flyer is some who the equivalent of an army gathered from 3 or 4 different codexs is bollocks. Fluff wise, that should be be the basis of most ORK armies. It is the basic ORK household, even if the boss is on a bike. It just isn’t one of your competitive build “archetypes”.

You come across as a) rude, b) arrogant and c) so narrow minded that you cannot accept there other ways to build an army. Get a grip mate. As for your response to me you demonstrate again that the only way you can see the game being enjoyed is your way. Anything else is failure apparently. Failing at what exactly I don’t know, failing at enjoyment? At being happy? At life in general? Who knows? Ridiculous.

Yeah typical behaviour really, no wonder they see loads of people leaving their Wargame group... Its not the content of the boxes or advices or different ways of enjoying the hobby that does that, its just the inability they have to understand differences and continuous scream to others- YOUR WRONG! If they do things differently... Move along and ignore I would say.

m
But we are WRONG!! And forget we know nothing of orks. Nothing at all.

I am mostly a collector and rarely play the game so I don't really care that the ork force doesn't fit together. But even for someone like me its not really good as I would also want to buy the combat patrol for the Warboss and the Deffkoptas.
And then you have 40 of those monopose boyz which you may not care about if you only want them to play but don't look appealing to me.

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

Does narrative and open 40k ignore keywords for units and abilities? Cause if not, you still have random collection of units in the box. keyword-oriented gameplay has been the staple of gw game design since what, 2017 at least, playing narratively doesn't change the fact the game mechanics stay the same.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
The ork box isn't a competitive army, nor the basis for one *now* but if you want a rounded ork force for casual play/painting/collecting or just to future proof or have an array to select from, it's really not that bad.

My point exactly. But apparently we are wrong and don’t know how to succeed at hobbying properly.

It's not even a rounded Ork force for casual play though. It's a rag-tag collection of random units that never work togather and never will.

Get some trukks, wagons, bikes and that's a fluffy mechanised list. The box is a basis, not an army and you can easily form a coherent force from the base of it all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
Does narrative and open 40k ignore keywords for units and abilities? Cause if not, you still have random collection of units in the box. keyword-oriented gameplay has been the staple of gw game design since what, 2017 at least, playing narratively doesn't change the fact the game mechanics stay the same.

What you're referring to is the speedwaagh not affecting all units, yes? It's not impossible to have a speedwaagh list with some troops in and a big mek.

Likewise you are allowed to buy an on foot warboss as well to have options or build in a different direction.

I don't think anyone is arguing that box is confused and lacking direction, but it's not some worthless abomination like some people think.

The monopose boyz are a bigger problem to me, pretty stupid thing to do for a horde unit.

 Matrindur wrote:
I am mostly a collector and rarely play the game so I don't really care that the ork force doesn't fit together. But even for someone like me its not really good as I would also want to buy the combat patrol for the Warboss and the Deffkoptas.
And then you have 40 of those monopose boyz which you may not care about if you only want them to play but don't look appealing to me.

That would be my main misgiving about it too. But those new boyz are lovely models, monopose or not. But don’t want 4 squads of them really. If they had put old boyz in there there would have been need rage about how they are trying shift the old boyz to discontinue them. It’s like all this people who love this GW games aren’t happy with anything GW do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
The monopose boyz are a bigger problem to me, pretty stupid thing to do for a horde unit.

But duh, no one plays green tide anymore it’s optimised for MSUs since blast game in! (This is a sarcastic impersonation of the competitive types btw).

Cronch wrote:
Does narrative and open 40k ignore keywords for units and abilities? Cause if not, you still have random collection of units in the box. keyword-oriented gameplay has been the staple of gw game design since what, 2017 at least, playing narratively doesn't change the fact the game mechanics stay the same.

Well, when I play narrative it's mostly about the rule of cool rather than having some super synergy to pound my opponent's face in. Narrative is about the narrative and not how to pull off a Tekken combo.

The Ork box is fine to me(except for the fixed fitting on the new monopose models) and is an alright addition to a larger collection. Will be aiming to get the Necron box myself though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
The monopose boyz are a bigger problem to me, pretty stupid thing to do for a horde unit.

I agree. Monopose and unable to switch out fittings makes the new boyz rather dead in the water for me.

Dudeface wrote:
Get some trukks, wagons, bikes and that's a fluffy mechanised list. The box is a basis, not an army and you can easily form a coherent force from the base of it all.

This is laughable argument. If you need to spend several times what the battlebox was worth to 'fix' it, it was utter garbage to begin with. And this ignores the fact fixing it is inane proposition to begin with for new (and existing) players who like faction X and want to play it, not faction Z. If my fluffy ork army is green tide of snake bites, warboss on trike is completely out of place there and "just adding truks" will ruin the theme of army and will go completely opposite faction rules it has.

If I like Raven Guard, I can arm intercessors and heavy intercessors with stalkers and use them in backline sniping - but then garbage, completely unfitting HI unit is completely useless to me and no, I don't want to "just add impulsors" or whatever other apologist soundbyte non-argument is being tossed to ruin my army. I am not playing White Scars or Black Templars who might find use for HI (and if I do, then other 70% of this box is borderline useless to me making the problem even worse). I am playing Raven Guard (or Ultramarines, or any other shooty chapter, whatever) and one gak melee unit that ill fits the rest of the army, its theme, and rules will still be completely useless and make the box far worse, in both hobby and monetary standpoint - while alternative, like Reivers or Infiltrators, while not optimal would at least fit and wouldn't damage my playstyle and enjoyment of the game (and arguably of hobby too, HI have zero options and are most boring, bland primaris unit that only exist to appease people whining about muh chainswurdz). Do you get it now?

Andykp wrote:
Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Utter nonsense. People who look at narrative side of things want to have fluff accurate armies. Guess what, that means themed army. And any unit that ruins that theme destroys that narrative. What you laughably proposed is like giving a couple of Tiger tanks to someone who collects 1940 British Expeditionary Force in France army. What's the problem, UK had tanks, eh? And maybe a mini of Patton, no problem here either, UK had generals, eh?

That's why HI and trike boss are so gak - they ruin theme, and there were dozens of better alternatives that would keep it and don't duplicate anything from SC or CP boxes. But hey, let's blame and smear the players who like fluff, not inane GW choices made by salesmen who know nothing about the setting

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Get some trukks, wagons, bikes and that's a fluffy mechanised list. The box is a basis, not an army and you can easily form a coherent force from the base of it all.

This is laughable argument. If you need to spend several times what the battlebox was worth to 'fix' it, it was utter garbage to begin with. And this ignores the fact fixing it is inane proposition to begin with for new (and existing) players who like faction X and want to play it, not faction Z. If my fluffy ork army is green tide of snake bites, warboss on trike is completely out of place there and "just adding truks" will ruin the theme of army and will go completely opposite faction rules it has.

If I like Raven Guard, I can arm intercessors and heavy intercessors with stalkers and use them in backline sniping - but then garbage, completely unfitting HI unit is completely useless to me and no, I don't want to "just add impulsors" or whatever other apologist soundbyte non-argument is being tossed to ruin my army. I am not playing White Scars or Black Templars who might find use for HI (and if I do, then other 70% of this box is borderline useless to me making the problem even worse). I am playing Raven Guard (or Ultramarines, or any other shooty chapter, whatever) and one gak melee unit that ill fits the rest of the army, its theme, and rules will still be completely useless and make the box far worse, in both hobby and monetary standpoint - while alternative, like Reivers or Infiltrators, while not optimal would at least fit and wouldn't damage my playstyle and enjoyment of the game (and arguably of hobby too, HI have zero options and are most boring, bland primaris unit that only exist to appease people whining about muh chainswurdz). Do you get it now?

Andykp wrote:
Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Utter nonsense. People who look at narrative side of things want to have fluff accurate armies. Guess what, that means themed army. And any unit that ruins that theme destroys that narrative. What you laughably proposed is like giving a couple of Tiger tanks to someone who collects 1940 British Expeditionary Force in France army. What's the problem, UK had tanks, eh? And maybe a mini of Patton, no problem here either, UK had generals, eh?

That's why HI and trike boss are so gak - they ruin theme, and there were dozens of better alternatives that would keep it and don't duplicate anything from SC or CP boxes. But hey, let's blame and smear the players who like fluff, not inane GW choices made by salesmen who know nothing about the setting

So again, I am doing the hobby wrong, even though I am doing it the way I like I am still doing it wrong! Can you not see that there are people who enjoy things differently than you?

Well guess what, I have a narrative ORK army and themed, but it contains all six clans and has a huge mix of tanks and infantry and bikes and buggies and trucks and old models and new ones. But what do I know I am just doing the hobby wrong.

Open your mind a little bit. You might find that you are actually not right about everything and some people get enjoyment from things you can’t understand. Apparently.

Actually, that SM force would be a pretty good starter for Deathwatch. Downside of course is getting the shoulder pads, especially the gravis aspect.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Get some trukks, wagons, bikes and that's a fluffy mechanised list. The box is a basis, not an army and you can easily form a coherent force from the base of it all.

This is laughable argument. If you need to spend several times what the battlebox was worth to 'fix' it, it was utter garbage to begin with. And this ignores the fact fixing it is inane proposition to begin with for new (and existing) players who like faction X and want to play it, not faction Z. If my fluffy ork army is green tide of snake bites, warboss on trike is completely out of place there and "just adding truks" will ruin the theme of army and will go completely opposite faction rules it has.

If you know enough to know exactly what force you want and want a specific niche army, then you don't buy it. If you don't know and just want some cool models for orks, you buy it.

It's not an army in a box. It's not marketed as a complete force I'm a box. It's marketed as a starting point, or expansion box.

You call my argument rediculous but how many more £€¥$ do you need to add to a sole box of intercessors to "fix it"?

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

What he said ^^^^

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

Excellent retort - exalted!

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

Excellent retort - exalted!

NO, NO, NO, NO, you're obviously doing it wrong... there's no way they'd have just one bike. /s

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Since for ever, fluff wise Ork war bands have been made up of a warboss, his household weird boyz, nobz and household boys. This box has a warboss, a mek, a runtherd and his herd and sone nobz and boyz. And a plane to boot. If you look at the game from only a mechanics and winning point of view, no, it’s not a good army. If you are looking at it more from a narrative point of view, or even better, a big box of cool models for Christmas point of view it’s ok.

Exactly my point.
Competitiveness is in the head of ambitious players, but this tabletop also allows open and narrative play.

What's the narrative of a bike boss leading 35 footsloggers? Go on then.

There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

Excellent retort - exalted!

NO, NO, NO, NO, you're obviously doing it wrong... there's no way they'd have just one bike. /s

Where do you think the third wheel for the trike came from...

Wait he's on a trike....immersion BROKEN!!!!!!!

I think we get it, if GW put a literal turd on 40% discount you'd eat it up because they can do no wrong.

 Dawnbringer wrote:


There was only one bike. Being the boss he obviously wasn't going to walk.

Forging the narrative, love it!

Interesting to hear that Holga was outsourced, it's a really lovely model too and the sprue gate connections look super clean and easy to... err, clean. Torn on whether to pick one up though, I mean it's still £20 that could go towards a Battleforce instead tbh.

edit- too many tabs open, Holga's discussed in the other thread haha