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EightFoldPath wrote:
We've not got much information to go off currently, but I do think Tau in the hands of top players will be winning tournaments with Kauyon builds. The heavier terrain density and the cagier way the best players actually play does give Kauyon some potential.

Unless Tau are pointed like Dark Eldar/Orks, then it will Montka face-rolling time for 6 months.

100% this. People who say that Kauyon is useless have no clue about playing Tau.
If there's a chance to build reliable alpha strike lists, Montka has a chance to be the optimal choice, but otherwise it's going to be Kauyon 90% of the time.
Only versus other gunlines Kauyon would make no sense, but against any army which as some melee capabilities fall back + shoot is too good to ignore.

The bonuses to damage (+1 Ap and reroll 1s to wound versus exploding 6s/5s/4s) are the icing on the cake. Too limited in range and target selection to be the rule upon which to base the entire game plan.
Nice to have when it's possible to activate them, but not crucial. What is crucial is the movement-related ability. And here Kauyon offers a lot more than Montka.

I really don't think you're right on this. A Kauyon T'au player won't be able to get control of midfield objectives until after turn 3, even if they go first. They'll be able to drop in their manta strike units and shoot the enemy off the objective with Kauyon, maybe, but they won't be able to move ONTO the objective until turn 4. In essence, they will have ceded half the scoring to the opponent. I don't think it's a winning strategy for tournaments.

Will Kauyon players be able to table their enemies in turns 4 or 5? Definitely maybe. But that doesn't mean you *WIN*, it just means you killed all the enemy forces. Maybe the codex will include a high-value secondary objective or two that Kauyon will be able to accomplish, but without durable units that can hold objectives into turn 2, I don't see Kauyon as being a winner.

Has anyone played with the idea of a deployable shield drone a "zone drone" that put put down a void shield like aoe that has 1 or maybe 3 wounds that would protect a 6" radius area. I'm not sure how drone controllers work for Firewarriors, but maybe as an upgrade for the squad, so when they pop out of a transport, boom, they have deployable cover. This would also work to save them from a "long bomb" charge as the enemy would need to break the shield to get to whoever is inside. Allow the shield token to be deployed on top of objectives. Make it once per game, so when the shield breaks, that's it, no more shield from that drone.
Maybe something like that would help to promote more fast movement/aggressive playstyle.

Catching up on scoring will be the huge hurdle.

We can probably imagine stratagems / septs / characters that can modify these doctrines +/- 1 turn though, so a turn 3 ability kicks in on a turn 2 deepstrike or whatever. THAT might make things useful.

bedivere wrote:
Just gonna throw it out there, wouldn't Kauyon favour those who have re enforcements or use manta strike?
The release indicated that it is an ambush tactic, and ambush tactics always make me think about dropping units onto or near targets or objectives.

You could easily have a few units for turns 1 and 2 to capture and keep a few basic nearby objectives and then come down hard and heavy with everything else and that may favour some missions, would that make sense in that scenario?


Just to add, this would also make sense if they are / do move XV8 crisis suits to troop choice, to allow more troops to drop in and would be a good option.
Makes me think that maybe they would remove the Mont’ka and Kauyon abilities from farsight and shadowsun and give them manat strike?
Would be good to make the devilfish either assult transport or manta strike ability just so it can be used to drop troops in aswell (like a drop pop)

Personally, I'd be more in favor of a rule that allows our skimmers to Deep Strike at a cost of something like d3 mortal wounds.

 Aenar wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
We've not got much information to go off currently, but I do think Tau in the hands of top players will be winning tournaments with Kauyon builds. The heavier terrain density and the cagier way the best players actually play does give Kauyon some potential.

Unless Tau are pointed like Dark Eldar/Orks, then it will Montka face-rolling time for 6 months.

100% this. People who say that Kauyon is useless have no clue about playing Tau.
If there's a chance to build reliable alpha strike lists, Montka has a chance to be the optimal choice, but otherwise it's going to be Kauyon 90% of the time.
Only versus other gunlines Kauyon would make no sense, but against any army which as some melee capabilities fall back + shoot is too good to ignore.

The bonuses to damage (+1 Ap and reroll 1s to wound versus exploding 6s/5s/4s) are the icing on the cake. Too limited in range and target selection to be the rule upon which to base the entire game plan.
Nice to have when it's possible to activate them, but not crucial. What is crucial is the movement-related ability. And here Kauyon offers a lot more than Montka.

Not saying you are wrong since we literally don't have a clue yet about the codex besides a couple rules/leaks, but as of right now, with the rules we do know about, I would table a Kauyon player probably 70-80% of the time when they are hiding most of their forces in reserve.

Getting 0 benefit from your army wide special rule until Turn 3 means I get 2 full turns to decimate your army before you can realize the benefits of your rule. As I mentioned before, if I have 1500pts in your deployment zone turn 1, tying up multiple units in CC turn 1, killing multiple units in combat turn 1, what is Kauyon going to do turn 3? You might literally lose the game before they can even get on the table.

New battlesuit rules previews are up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/punish-close-combat-forces-who-think-theyre-safe-with-codex-tau-empires-new-battlesuit-rules/

Highlights include more shots for burst rifles and flamers; jump, shoot, jump is a strategem; and a battle suit version of big guns never tire.

I think the trick to Kauyon, might actually be not reserving your forces. This is going to be dependent on what kind of buff Tau get in their new Codex, but think about how they both pair with their strengths / weaknesses. Tau are the shooting army, regardless of what they pick they should at the very least be able to give as good as they get against other shooting armies, so then it's really melee armies we have to consider.

You can go the Mont'ka route and hit harder to remove their models off the board early, but it has the tradeoff of putting you that much closer to your enemy that is going to chop you up. The flipside of Kauyon will be whittling them down at range and when they do close on you, you get a buff that helps you finish off their forces after you take your lumps. They key being having the forces on the table to whittle them down enough. Yeah exploding 6/5/4 is great and all, but if you're reserving your units for 2 turns to get to that, you're already loosing out on the firepower doing that. I think it will work better as a force multiplier with what's left rather than something to always count on a specific unit having.

Of course, this is pretty heavily dependent on what the Tau secondaries will look like. If they still have to get in and fight in the midfield then yeah, I think Mont'ka is the way to go, but if they have a viable way of hanging back and not falling too far behind, I could see Kauyon really allowing you to flip the game on it's head in the last couple turns. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

being able to shoot if locked in combat is nice. Its not nearly as good as being able to fallback and shoot with Mont'ka currently but its something atleast.

Burst Cannons going from 3 to 4 to 6 shots is a nice illustration of the power creep 40k steadily undergoes.

Not impressed by either the Multitracker or the target lock.

 Ordana wrote:


Burst Cannons going from 3 to 4 to 6 shots is a nice illustration of the power creep 40k steadily undergoes.

And the absurd qty of dice needed. How does one even roll 162 shots in a reasonable manor?

More sexy rules teasers https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/punish-close-combat-forces-who-think-theyre-safe-with-codex-tau-empires-new-battlesuit-rules/

I'm hoping these new rules will drop the MONSTER keyword from Riptides and let them use the BATTLESUIT keyword to do the same but better.

The burst cannon is 1.5x more lethal than before. The flamer is 1.57x more lethal. This is before any other new rules are added.

Re Kauyon - I think you are maybe focusing a bit too much on someone else's post about reserves. That does sound like a bad tactic against a turn one charge list. Neither I nor Aenar in his last post suggested reserving any units though. Just to check, are you aware that based on what we've seen so far and the basic rules of 9th edition:
a. Tau don't need to use any reserves to benefit from Kauyon?
b. Tau can choose how much to put in reserves after they see their opponent's list?
c. Tau can choose Montka instead of Kauyon where that would be the better choice? The article (which we all know not to fully trust) even says you can choose them after you know who is going first.

My predictions (that could all be wrong):

1. Tau will be OP on release, win plenty of tournaments and eventually get a nerf and/or be codex creeped by later codexes. PSA - do not buy 15 Piranhas if they are totally OP and then cry about it when they get nerfed ork buggy style.

2. Richard Siegler will win a major using Kauyon in the final in 2022.

3. He will also win with them after they are rightly nerfed and everyone says they can't win anymore. #justsieglerthings

4. The Tau vs melee Ork match up will favour the Tau. This one is the most bold of the predictions as it relies on the Tau points being as good as Orks and Tau keeping FTGG. But, I feel mechanically that the army that traditionally loves being charged is going to be good against "charging is my only plan" armies.

 Tawnis wrote:

 Ordana wrote:


Burst Cannons going from 3 to 4 to 6 shots is a nice illustration of the power creep 40k steadily undergoes.

And the absurd qty of dice needed. How does one even roll 162 shots in a reasonable manor?

With a dice app.

I like the changes to flamers and burst cannons. That really does make it possible to wipe an enemy army with a manta strike of crisis suits. But I still don't think you'd be able to win due to giving up the first two scoring turns (turn 2 and 3).

Not complaining about the changes to the Flamers, but seems a bit odd just randomly giving them an extra 2 hits?

Regarding the Kauyon vs Montka debate: imho Kauyon is better in general because it offers a way out of the main Tau vulnerability, which is being tagged in melee (especially by chaff, sacrificial units).
I still believe this even after today's reveal that battlesuits can shoot into melee. They can do that, but the unit you are shooting at is dictated by your opponent.
Being able to fall back and shoot (almost) freely at whatever you want is key. Almost since it's done at -1 to hit.

Having to wait until turn 3 is not as big as a deal than most people think it is. If you go first, your opponent only has two turns before it kicks in.
And you don't have to keep your stuff in reserves either (which is not a smart thing to do in 9th, in general).

I'm just looking at it with the lenses I use now with the 8th ed book. What is new Kauyon giving me that I didn't have already?
- fall back + shoot armywide (vs in a 6" bubble), for three whole turns (vs one or two depending on the sept you used), albeit with the -1 to hit and turn 3 onwards limitations
- some added extra damage that I didn't have before, conditional on range and closest target so it's completely situational.
I see that and I think it's basically better than what we have now.
I don't need to reserve most of my army to benefit from it just like I don't reserve most of my army now.
Excluding a couple of Vespid units and two Remoras, I full deploy everything most of the time anyway.

Montka on the other hand could pave the way for some killy alpha strike lists. But them being possible to build depends on the whole codex, and right now we don't have the full picture.

 Aenar wrote:
Regarding the Kauyon vs Montka debate: imho Kauyon is better in general because it offers a way out of the main Tau vulnerability, which is being tagged in melee (especially by chaff, sacrificial units).
I still believe this even after today's reveal that battlesuits can shoot into melee. They can do that, but the unit you are shooting at is dictated by your opponent.
Being able to fall back and shoot (almost) freely at whatever you want is key. Almost since it's done at -1 to hit.

Having to wait until turn 3 is not as big as a deal than most people think it is. If you go first, your opponent only has two turns before it kicks in.
And you don't have to keep your stuff in reserves either (which is not a smart thing to do in 9th, in general).

I'm just looking at it with the lenses I use now with the 8th ed book. What is new Kauyon giving me that I didn't have already?
- fall back + shoot armywide (vs in a 6" bubble), for three whole turns (vs one or two depending on the sept you used), albeit with the -1 to hit and turn 3 onwards limitations
- some added extra damage that I didn't have before, conditional on range and closest target so it's completely situational.
I see that and I think it's basically better than what we have now.
I don't need to reserve most of my army to benefit from it just like I don't reserve most of my army now.
Excluding a couple of Vespid units and two Remoras, I full deploy everything most of the time anyway.

Montka on the other hand could pave the way for some killy alpha strike lists. But them being possible to build depends on the whole codex, and right now we don't have the full picture.

Again, my competitive list is 3 units of Trukk boyz, Warbikes, Deffkoptas, Kommandos and Mek Gunz. Turn 1 I have 10 units guaranteed to be in CC unless you deployed at the far end of your deployment zone, and even then its going to be close. And if you do that, i'll just cap the mid field objectives for the game and win on points.

If you don't get your army wide buff until turn 3 i'll either table you or decimate your army to the point where it is irrelevant.

Trukk Boyz move 12, disembark 3, move 5, advance D6 and Charge 2D6 for a grand total of 20 + 3D6 movement turn 1. That averages 30-31 inch movement, with reroll charge its probably closer to 33. No mans land is 18. That means I can cross the entire table turn 1. I will tie up your units. Kommandos start the game 9' from your deployment zone, they move 6, advance D6 and charge 2D6, that means they average about 7-8 inches into YOUR deployment zone. Warbikes move 14, advance 6 and can charge 2D6 so they are averaging about 9 inches into YOUR deployment zone. Deffkoptas move 14 and can shoot 2D3 rokkitz each, 1 unit of them can then Charge 3D6 the rest go 2D6. Averages 21' or 3 inches into your deployment zone and 1 unit goes 6' into your deployment zone. My backfield is Mek gunz who can harass ranged threats and can inflict some surprisingly massive dmg. So if you don't get your buff until turn 3, I will have you tied up in combat starting Turn 1 and turn 2 my Warbosses make their appearance at which point anything left alive is going to regret not dying turn 1.

Against non-competitive lists it might work, in tournament play Kauyon is DOA.

To be fair not all armies can flood a deployment zone like that.

As I see it the real issue with Kauyon is the opportunity cost. Montka is *very good*. There may be issues with "closest eligiable enemy unit" - but it would buff say a Rifle Fire Warrior by 55%~ versus say Intercessors. Crisis Suits with the new weapons are up 75% versus Intercessors. Or 40% versus say Boyz. If these units are pointed/synergised to be reasonable, you can see how such an increase will push them completely over the edge. Meanwhile your whole army can advance everywhere to really get on that mid-board.

The idea of getting to turn 4 or even 5 with most of your army alive is nice, but its not modern 40k. Go out there and kill stuff, because otherwise it will kill you.

Im just trying to figure out just how Kauyon would work.
Tau as it stood wouldn't stand much of a chance against these rush armies for the first 3-4 rounds regardless of if you setup half your force into reserves or not, so I feel that this point is mute. Especially short sighted when we know that the new codex is coming and will make tau units more survivable, particularly in melee (obvious before the release yesterday).

Also assuming that the tau units will all be dead at end of turn two and orks will have all objectives at end of turn 1 and 2 seems like a small stretch too (not impossible but would take a lot to do it and likely spend a lot of CP, if it fails then there would be little to fall back on for the orks / rushing army when everything came down).

You can probably hide a few units for the first turn and secure an objective or two, to get some points and save a few units.
Perhaps a manta strike force in the second turn in hopes that more of them last until the third turn.
Im just trying to figure out how to get the most of your army alive in the start of the third turn for Kauyon to be effective.

Especially now that the battle suit firing into engagement option is now present and the jetpack has move shoot move stratagem, I feel that it could make an ork rush harder to pull off, in particular against stealth suits that would get a big boost per points (and obviously all new tactica and startagems apply to crisis suits and the boost to the flamer hits too).

Assuming that you can use some terrain to your favour with the move shoot move.

Am now thinking that XV25 stealth suits would be good to take the homing beacon. You can start with the infiltrators ability to set them up near objectives, for a round or two you can use the move shoot move stratagem for jet packs (strike and fade to move 6” after shooting) to prolong the unit survivability.

Assuming that you go first and can use some terrain to your favour with the move shoot move.

Setup the homing beacon near an objective (9” or more away from enemy units), move towards enemy, shoot (hopefully get a few wounds) and move again towards enemy (behind cover if you can) and then use the furious assault stratagem to charge enemy units (or if they are close to the homing beacon manta strike and charge). I like that stratagem against smaller armies like space marines or maybe custodes, if your going to end up in engagement anyway (after jetpacks finish a charge move, each model in that unit can select one enemy unit within 1" of that model roll D6 and a 3+ causes 1 mortal wound to the enemy unit).

The units can also now fire in engagement with a couple of extra shots on burst cannon (not the best or what everyone was expecting as burst cannon is still AP0 and 18” range). If they do get into engagement like the above mentioned strategy, use the homing beacon and drop crisis suits in on the enemy (possibly using drop threat acquisition stratagem if needed to re-roll hit rolls, thats similar to the farsight drop zone clear stratagem to +1 to hit rolls).

bedivere wrote:

Spoiler:

Im just trying to figure out just how Kauyon would work.
Tau as it stood wouldn't stand much of a chance against these rush armies for the first 3-4 rounds regardless of if you setup half your force into reserves or not, so I feel that this point is mute. Especially short sighted when we know that the new codex is coming and will make tau units more survivable, particularly in melee (obvious before the release yesterday).

Also assuming that the tau units will all be dead at end of turn two and orks will have all objectives at end of turn 1 and 2 seems like a small stretch too (not impossible but would take a lot to do it and likely spend a lot of CP, if it fails then there would be little to fall back on for the orks / rushing army when everything came down).

You can probably hide a few units for the first turn and secure an objective or two, to get some points and save a few units.
Perhaps a manta strike force in the second turn in hopes that more of them last until the third turn.
Im just trying to figure out how to get the most of your army alive in the start of the third turn for Kauyon to be effective.

Especially now that the battle suit firing into engagement option is now present and the jetpack has move shoot move stratagem, I feel that it could make an ork rush harder to pull off, in particular against stealth suits that would get a big boost per points (and obviously all new tactica and startagems apply to crisis suits and the boost to the flamer hits too).

Assuming that you can use some terrain to your favour with the move shoot move.

Am now thinking that XV25 stealth suits would be good to take the homing beacon. You can start with the infiltrators ability to set them up near objectives, for a round or two you can use the move shoot move stratagem for jet packs (strike and fade to move 6” after shooting) to prolong the unit survivability.

Assuming that you go first and can use some terrain to your favour with the move shoot move.

Setup the homing beacon near an objective (9” or more away from enemy units), move towards enemy, shoot (hopefully get a few wounds) and move again towards enemy (behind cover if you can) and then use the furious assault stratagem to charge enemy units (or if they are close to the homing beacon manta strike and charge). I like that stratagem against smaller armies like space marines or maybe custodes, if your going to end up in engagement anyway (after jetpacks finish a charge move, each model in that unit can select one enemy unit within 1" of that model roll D6 and a 3+ causes 1 mortal wound to the enemy unit).

The units can also now fire in engagement with a couple of extra shots on burst cannon (not the best or what everyone was expecting as burst cannon is still AP0 and 18” range). If they do get into engagement like the above mentioned strategy, use the homing beacon and drop crisis suits in on the enemy (possibly using drop threat acquisition stratagem if needed to re-roll hit rolls, thats similar to the farsight drop zone clear stratagem to +1 to hit rolls).

"Battlesuits are the emblems of the T’au Empire." - WarComm article

Oh no.

No no no.

NO NO NO.

...Goddamnit.

Side note i try not to talk about 3d printing or stls etc as nobody want GW shutting down servers.
Is it legal for STL files for none production FW or GW products, really feel that FW and GW should license these out or sell them direct?
for example if i wanted a TX7 Hammerhead Gunship (Legendary), old FW version?

This is the problem that I was trying to highlight, even with a full army on the board tau will struggle with that (codex pending), so how the fudge would Kauyon work (until ork and Drukhari get nerfed / cost more points per unit in the next FAQ), all that ork for <2000 pts.

The tau counter / similar unit to Kommandos is pathfinders stealth suits (but there are fewer of them in a unit and they cost more per model), I would probably go with a stealth suit squad and try to do the same to you with the mek guns.

Firewarriors can match the ork boys but the devil fish costs more than the ork trukk and to counter 3 of them sucks up points so I guess I wouldn't have 3 devilfish and maybe one instead (after all you are coming to me) and 4 X 10 firewarriors a couple of cadre fireblades to backup the gunlines.

Tau don’t really have a counter to warbikers (the Piranhas don’t really compare). I guess the hope here would be to use a cheap fast unit like kroot hounds and just charge the fodder in to clog up your units. Maybe supported with vespid sting wings to try to hurt them (just 2 of each for 20 hounds and 10 vespid, cant afford more). A commander in battle suit with option to manta strike in.

Again tau don’t really have Deffkoptas but instead of 3 lots of 3 I would consider spending a little extra to get 3 hammerheads (one as longstrike for a HQ), these things have had good luck for me vs Deffkoptas, skyray is tempting, especially with t he markerlight too with longstrike + seeker missile next to them, but hammerhead should do the trick and then some of the trukks or bikes after that (guess I need to buy one more to fight this list, I would love to get a forge world hammerhead, if only they still made them guess I would need to get the turret 3d printed, wish FW or GW sold STLs of the none production products).

Mek Gunzs are very cheap for what they offer…. Too cheap and too many wounds.
I would go for 4 broadsides (2 squads with 1 rail and 1 missiles + marker lights and seeker missiles)

Stealth suit squad at the front to see if they could get an early charge (with some CP to make it more leathal), yes they will die
Have on each flank, 2 Firewarriors + cadre firebladeslead by 10 hounds and backed up by 2 broadsides.
Have the 2 vespid squads and battlesuit commander in reserve to drop in where needed (where the bikes or trukks go)
Have hammerheads in the middle, clean up the copters and shoot at what ever else they can before exploding.

This is not a Kauyon tacttic and not a Kauyon build and I would end up using montka.
My point still is how would Kauyon try to fight this?
Sort of having a bunch of tanks and an infantry unit camping at back field objectives to stay alive and then drop in, on turn 2-3, all the while the enemy secures most objectives.

That army is over 2000 points, has 4 hq's, 4 heavy support and 4 fast attack so needs 2 detachments, the only markerlights are on the Cadre Fireblades. No drones for ablative wounds on your Broadsides so those instantly die to whatever AT your opponent has (a hammerhead is not dangerous enough to shoot first) and I don't see the damage output.

The ork army would also need two detachments, i took the same approach
Ork army had 6 fast attack and 2 or 4 heavy? Are mek guns 1 or 2 per unit (for sure not 4)
3 troops and transport and 3 elite
Ork army had 3-4 HQ as well - not sure on the cost of ork upgrades (haven't collected orks since 98) but i assumed it was 2000 points

what i proposed was under 2000 points (didnt go into all of the details of upgrades or all unit sizes but according to the WH app it is) and yes had two detachments
and hammerhead is weak ... but longstrike actually makes them ok if you need some long range punch (as much as tau punch). hopefully the codex will give vehicles some teeth, its a big tau weak point since the primaris vehicles started showing up.
Yes the broadsides are weak (they did have markerlight drones too), not much i can do with that for the points. Short of getting rid of the stealth suits to free up a few points

What would you take instead to try to have some sort of Kauyon benefit in the face of an ork rush?

There is no Kauyon benefit because against an Ork rush the game will be over by turn 3. Either the Orks are dead or the points lead is to big to matter.

I'd forget about the cadre fireblades and big firewarrior squads, they simply don't have the firepower even with buffs.
Drop the Broadsides because they are to vulnerable to AT, same but even more so with the Hammerheads, including Longstrike.

Double Riptide, one with the prototype Ion, one Burstcannon. their 3++ means they are the only thing Tau has that can live for any amount of time.
Crisis unit full of Missile Pods. Keep them and the Riptides in range of a Commander, preferably Farsight, because you will need the Mont'ka to get out of combat and keep shooting.

If the TO lets you use Kroot in a Farsight army without breaking the PA benefits then I can see a use for the Kroot Hounds as a screen. Otherwise your stuck using throwaway Breacher units. Farsight Enclave benefits, esp the BS 3 crisis unit is to good to not have.

And the acceptance that your playing an 8th edition army in a 9th edition world and that you need to be one of the best players in the world playing perfectly to have a chance at winning against a meta army with Tau.
Going second is probably a guaranteed loss, no matter what list you bring or what you do.

Yeah thats what I feared, and they seem to just keep pushing back the codex release because hey why not. I am also expecting that the HQ montka and Kauyon will change somehow, until the codex we dont know for sure.
(i will never throw away my longstrike, he just may be on the side lines cheering)
Im expecting that the tidewall and sniper drones will also get a boost in the new codex, but dont know what yet. I think the breacher team was confirmed to get a similar boost, again dont know yet.
So hopefully it wont be like this for long.

As you point out here the issue may be with the army played against.
For Ork you would probably want montka.
I think Kauyon maybe more affective against armies that may benefit from bunkering for a turn, like custodes do sometimes.
Ive seen custodes bunker for first turn waiting for enemy to move up or advance so that they can get in range of the weapons in turn 2 or rapid fire range and charges (think the custodes troops only have 24" rapid fire weapons or less? Even after the new rules)

I could see Kauyon being more valuable in a custodes match up, as they may sacrifice turn 1 to become save wounds from shooting attacks anyway, then you just need to survive turn 2 and then fallback in turn 3, Kauyon could be useful.

Zzzap

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/12/warhammer-40k-tau-railguns-are-getting-an-upgrade-in-the-new-codex.html

Strength 14 with a -6 AP and it does D3+6 damage and ignores invulns. Also free reroll.

This is before marker lights as well.

OneBoxForOptimism wrote:
Zzzap

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/12/warhammer-40k-tau-railguns-are-getting-an-upgrade-in-the-new-codex.html

Strength 14 with a -6 AP and it does D3+6 damage and ignores invulns. Also free reroll.

This is before marker lights as well.

Well crap. There goes any reason to field my AX-1-0

Will come down to points of course but any hit reroll/markerlight shenanigans to shave up those hit odds will mean a unit of these will be dunking dreads and knights nasty fast. No idea how list building will shake up, if dumping 400-500 points into this will make sense or not and still be able to have enough to fight for objs and still screen the hammerheads.

Really hope we get viable mechanized lists

I also read that the hammerhead railgun ignores invulnerable saves and when it wounds successfully, auto gets 3 mortal wounds + normal damage.

So now my anti ork army will bring back longstrike and as many hammerheads as i can lay hands on (max 3 in detachment).
Last time I was criticised for giving the same amount of detail as the ork army, and using two attachments, just like ork army, so this time more detail and crammed into one detachment.

As tau sept
Spearhead detachment
Using montka (as we have established kauyon doesn’t work against ork rush)

Longstrike, with seeker missiles (meaning he always hits, his BS is 2+ and he gets +1 to hit rolls on all hammerheads in 6”, including himself, he also gets tank ace +1 to wound rolls), he also gets 1 additional markerlight if the target he shoots at has a markerlight on it so can be nice for the seeker missiles to be hitting on 2+. basically with the new data sheet (unless longstrike changes) he will be auot hitting, with the strenght 14 cannon he will be auto wounding and with the 3 mortal +6+d3 damage he could be putting out 10-12 wounds per round that have to be saved at 72" (or a ork trukk off the board at the start) + the other hammerheads are not far behind to target more.

3 hammerheads with gun drones or burst cannons (max I can take and hit on BS 3+, plus the +1 on hit rolls if near longstrike, plus any markerlights that allow re-roll of hits, plus stratagems that do the same + targetting array + submunitions for hordes) – these should be useful again.
A sky ray gunship (for its 2 markerlights, missiles and seeker missiles)

2 full 10 man pathfinder teams (with 3 rail rifles) and one with the networked markerlights relic (changing from heavy 1 to assault 1)
3 full 12 man squads of firewarriors with pulse rifles
A cadre fireblade (gives firewarriors the extra shot in half range, 3 shots @ 18” S5 AP-1 D1)

2 squads of 3 crisis battle suits in manta strike with burst cannons, advanced targeting (to get AP-1) and drone controller (3 because of stargagem cost and cant take more that 2 in the dettachment)

The remanning 150 - 200 points go on drones supporting the troops and crisis suits, maybe a broadside unit or another sky ray

That’s a lot of assumptions about what hasn’t changed.