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 Kanluwen wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Not Eldar related, but why is the infernal master in a combat patrol but Crowe isn’t?

Because Crowe's a special character and the Infernal Master isn't.

Go tell that to the Death Guard combat patrol.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Seriously WTF GW! You publish a picture of Corsairs with Yvraine, and they make perfect sense together both visually and fluff wise, yet the rules don't allow it.

I am so done with all the idiotic restrictions about how I can build my army or equip the models. This is really killing my fun.

It feels like something they will FAQ.
Maybe I should actually email to indicate I vaguely care.

Just like that they'll FAQ the Autarch loadouts?
You'd think a multi-billion-pounds company would be able to afford a proofreader.

Oh wait then they'd have to pay him, reducing their profits, nevermind.

That isn't a proof-reader problem (or even a technical writer). That was 100% a deliberate decision.
It might get overturned as a sore point due to player complaints, but given Eldritch Omens reactions, its something they already know people aren't happy about. It'll either show up in the 'two week' FAQ or it won't happen at all.
But it did not happen because GW is too cheap to pay an editor.

The autarch thing definitely happened because gw is afraid people won’t buy both kits. Though miscommunication with the warcom team made the matter much worse

 GaroRobe wrote:
The autarch thing definitely happened because gw is afraid people won’t buy both kits. Though miscommunication with the warcom team made the matter much worse

I fail to see how making the two kits mutually exclusive (since you can only really have one Autarch apparently nowadays in your force, so people would just pick the better one) would sell more, than if they advertised them as completly compatible with each other, so you'd need both for the full range of options.

The most amusing thing is the autarch build that's really being touted is the one on the jetbike. Foot autarch is effectively DOA, if the meta-chasers are to be believed.

Voss wrote:
The most amusing thing is the autarch build that's really being touted is the one on the jetbike. Foot autarch is effectively DOA, if the meta-chasers are to be believed.

It would be amazing if people would stop acting as if that matters. For feths sake just because some min/max feth-hole thinks .224 more damage is significant, doesn't mean people will not use the other option. There are hundreds of examples on the Eldar reddit of people who've bought the foot models to use in their armies. I plan on buying another one to make different choices for mine once the kit is available. Meta isn't the only way to enjoy this game. I've been playing non-cult terminators in my Black Legion for years now even though the meta says they suck. They don't. They're a lot of fun to use and play games with.

EDIT* Sorry Voss, I'm not yelling AT you. Just so tired of the common belief that if a model's rules aren't near perfect or broken that they're suddenly useless. It's frustrating sometimes.

Voss wrote:

That isn't a proof-reader problem (or even a technical writer). That was 100% a deliberate decision.
It might get overturned as a sore point due to player complaints, but given Eldritch Omens reactions, its something they already know people aren't happy about. It'll either show up in the 'two week' FAQ or it won't happen at all.
But it did not happen because GW is too cheap to pay an editor.

 GaroRobe wrote:
The autarch thing definitely happened because gw is afraid people won’t buy both kits. Though miscommunication with the warcom team made the matter much worse

What probably happened is something like:

2+ years ago a model designer is creating the new Eldar & looks at old Autarch CAD files for reference, and thinks it would be a good idea to make the kits cross-compatible.

Codex writer is working from home in 2020/21, may not have even seen all the new models in person or talked to the designer. They follow their usual guideline to write datasheet rules based on what they're told will be in the kit.

WarCom writer gets asked to do an article on the new EO models, has a chat with model designer and gets told about kit compatibility.

As much as I appreciated working from home most of the time, there were communication issues like this all the time that would have been avoided by being in the same building as a colleague.

The Eldar Combat patrol is pretty nice IMO, Definitely a must-buy for me, if I am going to convert my Harlequins into an (eventually) Ynnari force.

I was ready to splash out and finally start playing 9th edition, but I just cancelled the order for the Eldar codex and accompanying kits.

Kill Team 2018 was a blast, and have been enjoying 3rd edition 40K for the last few years reviving old Tyranid and Eldar armies. I just feel that with the new Kill Team and 9th edition I'm trying to fix what isn't broke, and going broke by doing so. This isn't a complaint against modern 40K but merely coming to my senses, as it were.

I'm going to leave it here.

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
The most amusing thing is the autarch build that's really being touted is the one on the jetbike. Foot autarch is effectively DOA, if the meta-chasers are to be believed.

It would be amazing if people would stop acting as if that matters. For feths sake just because some min/max feth-hole thinks .224 more damage is significant, doesn't mean people will not use the other option. There are hundreds of examples on the Eldar reddit of people who've bought the foot models to use in their armies. I plan on buying another one to make different choices for mine once the kit is available. Meta isn't the only way to enjoy this game. I've been playing non-cult terminators in my Black Legion for years now even though the meta says they suck. They don't. They're a lot of fun to use and play games with.

EDIT* Sorry Voss, I'm not yelling AT you. Just so tired of the common belief that if a model's rules aren't near perfect or broken that they're suddenly useless. It's frustrating sometimes.

Bold to assume that the benefits of the Jetbike aren't too good to pass up to begin with. Even if just babysitting, that's extra durability and speed as necessary. I even do that with my shooting Marine armies (bless the Captain escaping the Legends Hammer).

Its the relic thing for the jetbike. Even more faster and gives the character objective secured.

Reaching out from halfway across the table and simply declaring 'mine now' on any objective without troops is stunningly stupid amazing. Some factions have counters to this (like the necron trait that gives ObSec to everyone), but against other factions its just... game change.

I plan to buy 2 boxes of shining spears and convert one to autarch on bike, leaving a 5 man spears squad. I also plan to use the foot autarch, and Yriel, why not...diverse is fun.

As for the Corsairs and Ynnari (plus Yriel I guess), I hope people just don't play Ynnari and GW start wondering why. They have always screwed up with Ynnari and it looks like they just keep doubling down on it.

 bullyboy wrote:
I plan to buy 2 boxes of shining spears and convert one to autarch on bike, leaving a 5 man spears squad. I also plan to use the foot autarch, and Yriel, why not...diverse is fun.

As for the Corsairs and Ynnari (plus Yriel I guess), I hope people just don't play Ynnari and GW start wondering why. They have always screwed up with Ynnari and it looks like they just keep doubling down on it.

I don't think they will. This is one of the most diverse books they've put out so far, I expect to see all kinds of interest in Ynnari, Craftworlds, Harlies, heck even DE orders might get a boost as well (I know I'd like to own some DE again...)

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
The most amusing thing is the autarch build that's really being touted is the one on the jetbike. Foot autarch is effectively DOA, if the meta-chasers are to be believed.

It would be amazing if people would stop acting as if that matters. For feths sake just because some min/max feth-hole thinks .224 more damage is significant, doesn't mean people will not use the other option. There are hundreds of examples on the Eldar reddit of people who've bought the foot models to use in their armies. I plan on buying another one to make different choices for mine once the kit is available. Meta isn't the only way to enjoy this game. I've been playing non-cult terminators in my Black Legion for years now even though the meta says they suck. They don't. They're a lot of fun to use and play games with.

EDIT* Sorry Voss, I'm not yelling AT you. Just so tired of the common belief that if a model's rules aren't near perfect or broken that they're suddenly useless. It's frustrating sometimes.

Bold to assume that the benefits of the Jetbike aren't too good to pass up to begin with. Even if just babysitting, that's extra durability and speed as necessary. I even do that with my shooting Marine armies (bless the Captain escaping the Legends Hammer).

I can hear the point flying over your head.

A pack of Dire Avengers just showed up on Wayland and I've snatched them up.

But I'm definitely leaving it there!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
The autarch thing definitely happened because gw is afraid people won’t buy both kits. Though miscommunication with the warcom team made the matter much worse

I fail to see how making the two kits mutually exclusive (since you can only really have one Autarch apparently nowadays in your force, so people would just pick the better one) would sell more, than if they advertised them as completly compatible with each other, so you'd need both for the full range of options.

I think GW's "logic" is that if autarchs had all the weapon options, someone will buy one kit, and then just find a third party alternate for the extra bits, instead of spending $26 for the second autarch kit. By having the two autarchs be restrictive in their loadouts, players that want to field either or are stuck buying both kits. GW is also kind of dumb, and prefers to limit options to whatever is included in the kit, even if the model could use arms/helmets from other units in the army. Once again, I think that was a result of Chapterhouse and GW's quest to force people to exclusively use their products .

Predictions game for fun for anyone that wants to play along with me (I use the reddit meta mondays over a couple of weeks to see if I got close or was way off):

Craftworlds - Will put up win % results in tournaments close to Tau/Custodes. I think it will be close to 55%. Why so low?

Harlequins - Will put up the best win % results in tournaments, above Tau/Custodes. Around 60%. They push Tau/Custodes/Craftworlds down.

Eldar soup - Will be one of 8 or so options (Tau/Cust/CW/Harlie + 4) that get above 50% win %.

I keep seeing people saying that Eldar units are expensive, but wow their rules are good. The Phoenix Lords are amazing just based on defences. With 1 unit of 5 Aspect Warriors and 1 Phoenix Lord you need to kill the Aspect Warriors in shooting, then take off 3W in shooting from the Lord. Then you have to charge and take the last 3W to kill them. 3 unit activations total, 1 in melee. All targets have invulnerables so you have to overcommit or risk under damaging. If you don't kill them they will hold a point using their ObSec. And holding points wins the game.

The secondaries look solid too. The Eldar Mutated Landscape knock off with their cheap and very fast Warlocks is very doable (and they can switch to other warpcraft secondaries on the maps it doesn't work on).

 Togusa wrote:
It would be amazing if people would stop acting as if that matters. For feths sake just because some min/max feth-hole thinks .224 more damage is significant, doesn't mean people will not use the other option. There are hundreds of examples on the Eldar reddit of people who've bought the foot models to use in their armies. I plan on buying another one to make different choices for mine once the kit is available. Meta isn't the only way to enjoy this game. I've been playing non-cult terminators in my Black Legion for years now even though the meta says they suck. They don't. They're a lot of fun to use and play games with.

You know, I'd normally agree with you, because most of the time, tiny bit more/less efficiency matters less than cool look, but with Eldar/Tau book, writer incompetence managed to shatter that paradigm to pieces. The upgrades are way too broken, when you can take like 60+ inch movement for very little points, basically teleporting across the table at will (while also lugging around anti-tank weapons "balanced" around it's "short" range, something almost comically irrelevant with such move speeds), why wouldn't you? IMO, 12 inches should be the max infantry model could move (maybe 18 if it's a relic) but alas, both of these armies have writers with zero clue how to balance them and a tendency to make their pet armies as OP as possible...

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I fail to see how making the two kits mutually exclusive (since you can only really have one Autarch apparently nowadays in your force, so people would just pick the better one) would sell more, than if they advertised them as completly compatible with each other, so you'd need both for the full range of options.

You act like GW has a clue what would sell more models. See primaris, whose selling point since day zero was 100% compatibility of arms, shoulder pads, and helmets with old SM range, but then were denied to actually take these upgrades Which then some took to 12 by banning primaris from taking frakking upgrades designed for primaris (GW would sell zillion BT upgrade sprues if other chapters could take their multi-melta bit, or BT captain models if other captains could take its axe or sword with combi-plasma/plasma pistol upgrades, but writing 30 second FAQ with these options is apparently too hard)

 Crimson wrote:
Seriously WTF GW! You publish a picture of Corsairs with Yvraine, and they make perfect sense together both visually and fluff wise, yet the rules don't allow it.

I am so done with all the idiotic restrictions about how I can build my army or equip the models. This is really killing my fun.

Just houserule it tbh

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Seriously WTF GW! You publish a picture of Corsairs with Yvraine, and they make perfect sense together both visually and fluff wise, yet the rules don't allow it.

I am so done with all the idiotic restrictions about how I can build my army or equip the models. This is really killing my fun.

Just houserule it tbh

Or run her as a farseer. Or just run them as wtfever unit makes the most sense if you want to be compliant.

Maybe it's because the rules now say you can only take one autarch per detachment?

They wanted to avoid the complaints from people who purchased two models to mix and match only to find they could only use one, unless they played some force org shennigans?

Question: I don't get the whole ' in the footsteps of the acients' part page 90 about custom craftworlds..

So you choose one of the five craftworlds or simply pick two separate attributes for a custom craftworld, but it seems like you can also pick something ' in-between'??? Could somebody explain that?

The footsteps thing is duplicated in every codex with custom rules; basically you paint your models how you like and use the big names as your rules but really it’s your custom name so you don’t get the special characters. Or you do but they don’t get the benefit of the trait.
So technically the footsteps thing is the in-between option.

So if you choose Footsteps of the Ancients for your custom craftworld called Zandros, all your unit cards say Zandros instead of <craftworld> plus you can pick a named craftworld and use those traits as if they said Zandros instead of Ulthwé or Iyanden or whatever. But since you still have Zandros on your units, if you take Eldrad or Yriel they don’t change their designation so are “just visiting” and don’t get the Zandros trait. Even if that happens to be identical to their home traits.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
The footsteps thing is duplicated in every codex with custom rules;

Nope. If you want to use a custom Dark Eldar Kabal (or Cult or Coven), then by the rules you *must* choose the custom traits.

There's no equivalent of footsteps to let you, for example, use the rules for Black heart but call it something different (and paint your models in your own colours).

 vipoid wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
The footsteps thing is duplicated in every codex with custom rules;

Nope. If you want to use a custom Dark Eldar Kabal (or Cult or Coven), then by the rules you *must* choose the custom traits.

There's no equivalent of footsteps to let you, for example, use the rules for Black heart but call it something different (and paint your models in your own colours).

But there is nothing saying that you really have to paint them in that colour¿no? I always thought that you could just say that it's a small part of the Craftworld or whatever faction that for internal reasons have a different scheme.

Darkial wrote:
But there is nothing saying that you really have to paint them in that colour¿no? I always thought that you could just say that it's a small part of the Craftworld or whatever faction that for internal reasons have a different scheme.

Unless Eldar are different I don't think paint ever comes into it. Although this sort of system may allow GW to start pushing against that in the future.

The point is that the Eldar, Tau and GSC books all have the option to basically be "Craftworld/Cult/Sept Zandros", which is in fact, rules wise, "Craftworld Ulthwe". Or Twisted Helix, Vior'la etc.
Technically DE doesn't. If you want to be "Kabal Zandros" you should notionally take custom traits and not just use the Black Heart rules as if you were Black Heart.
But really... I don't think anyone has ever stopped someone from doing so if they wanted to.

 Crimson wrote:
Seriously WTF GW! You publish a picture of Corsairs with Yvraine, and they make perfect sense together both visually and fluff wise, yet the rules don't allow it..

Should I point out ALL the artwork of Death Guard Plague Marines carrying Heavy Bolters? An illegal, impossible option despite multiple art pieces until the Traitor Legions supplement at the very end of 7th that allowed you to take Death Guard Havocs with the relevant weapons. (And the joy was that the Death Guard Legion rules basically turned their units into Plague units- basically what people wanted for YEARS.)

And then they nuked it like, 6 months later for 8th ed.

So most of the reviews etc feel this codex is a bomb.

What can be done to fix it? Lower point costs on many of the overcosted units?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
The footsteps thing is duplicated in every codex with custom rules; basically you paint your models how you like and use the big names as your rules but really it’s your custom name so you don’t get the special characters. Or you do but they don’t get the benefit of the trait.
So technically the footsteps thing is the in-between option.

So if you choose Footsteps of the Ancients for your custom craftworld called Zandros, all your unit cards say Zandros instead of <craftworld> plus you can pick a named craftworld and use those traits as if they said Zandros instead of Ulthwé or Iyanden or whatever. But since you still have Zandros on your units, if you take Eldrad or Yriel they don’t change their designation so are “just visiting” and don’t get the Zandros trait. Even if that happens to be identical to their home traits.

Or you just say they are whatever you want and painting to be damned.

Wonder how many white/black/red ultramarines with guillimann I have already seen...

General Hobbs wrote:


So most of the reviews etc feel this codex is a bomb.

What can be done to fix it? Lower point costs on many of the overcosted units?

Are these the same people who were saying Tau was mediocre and that Custodes were very bad? Because that happened, everywhere, especially with the Custodes.

Let's let the book come out, people play with it a bit and see what can be done, instead of trying to form an opinion based of what some "who ever" says on the internet about what they have seen before we talk about balance for an as yet released product.