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Is there any way to use it in AoS. The new model has a round 120mm base IIRC. The old one is on a 40mm square. Is there an official way to use the old model or would it take house rules? What about at events? Technically the model is on its correct base but it doesn't resemble the new (current) model very much in terms of silhouette.

I would add pictures for comparison but I don't know how to embed them into the thread. If anyone could do so I'd be appreciative.

I'd use it as a necromancer, or vampire lord. The scale is too different to ever use it as Nagash in the current game.

Old nagash is ogre sized. He could not be used for nagash today because of the line of sight rules, it would be modeling for advantage since he'd be a lot smaller and hiding behind the new scale models wreaking havoc.

While I acknowledge that he would be much smaller than the new model I don't think that it would be modelling for advantage since it is an "official GW product" for Nagash. Not that I don't agree that he shouldn't be used just that it doesn't violate that specific rule. (It's like using RT era temies in 40K).

I mean, just putting it on a bigger base is legal, though to be less of an annoyance, you could put him on a really big rock, or skull I guess.

Unless I'm missing something, AOS still uses true line of sight. If it changed to just care about base size, then ignore my comments. But if still using true line of sight:

So current nagash is like i don't know ... lets just say 18" tall and old nagash is like 6" tall.

Old nagash can hide and not be targeted very easily as he can hide behind a lot.

New nagash can not hide behind most things and can be targeted much easier.

Thats where its modeling for advantage.

While any group is free to do whatever, if you go to an actual tournament event with old nagash trying to use it as nagash, I would expect a lot of vocal complaining about it. I know even in casual games, I would not be keen on facing low-crawling nagash where I couldn't target him while you hid him behind your troops as he wreaked havoc with his spells, because with current Nagash I could at least target him.

This was a thing in 40k years and years ago with people using wraith lords in similar ways (old wraith lord was small and people could hide them easy compare to new one, and most tournaments I knew about prohibited their use for that reason)

As far as I can see he seems legal? Perhaps you got to bluetach him into the bigger base since Aos use spesific base charts now. :-)

 auticus wrote:
Old nagash is ogre sized. He could not be used for nagash today because of the line of sight rules, it would be modeling for advantage since he'd be a lot smaller and hiding behind the new scale models wreaking havoc.

Not quite true. If he was modelled on an appropriately large, imposing and almost diorama style base (like a tower or pyramid base or something raising a horde of undead) I'd be fine with the old Nagash, as long as he roughly was as tall and took up as much presence/space as the newer one.

Just to be clear- Modelling for advantage, to me, is taking a model and modifying it so that it is less of a target than it would be if built in the manner GW meant for it to be built. The keyword here is modified. My old Nagash is built just the way GW intended for it to be built therefore, again to me, that's not modelling for advantage.

This would be no different from the 40k dilemma has with older models like terminators on 25mm bases that are now as small as normal troopers. It is my understanding that they are perfectly legal to use in "official" GW events as long as their base is the correct size. I think that it is a TFG thing to do, but it's technically within the rules.

Is there an alternative role that the model could play without being too far from its look? For instance, I have used old Greater Daemons as Daemon Princes by just changing their base.

Of course. If you model him where he is the same height as current Nagash then I would have no issues either.

I am just going off of the assumption he's glued down to a base and is running around on the table at his base height, which is IMO not appropriate or a good time for the other person when the player can just duck and hide behind everything while doing Nagash things back to them laughing the while that they cannot target him.

This would be no different from the 40k dilemma has with older models like terminators on 25mm bases that are now as small as normal troopers. It is my understanding that they are perfectly legal to use in "official" GW events as long as their base is the correct size.

To me its much larger issue than the terminator example you give.

Older terminators and newer terminators are not grossly different in height. The newer ones are a bit different, and yes people can legit complain about it, but its not a gross difference.

Old nagash is like 3 or 4 times smaller than new nagash and with true line of sight that is a night and day difference. The base size itself is only part of the issue. Not being able to target old-nagash because the modern AOS scaled models mostly obscure him is a huge issue. Jacking up his height so its comparable to new-nagash would solve that problem.

I wish I could find a comparison picture. I've never seen the new model assembled so, while I know that it is bigger I have no idea how much bigger.

Old vs New.

Old Nagash next to an infantry model (top)
New Nagash next to infantry model (bottom)

Old Nagash comes up to new Nagash's ankle or thereabouts.

Buy the Mausoleum set and place him atop a massive diorama with zombies and skeletons coming out of the crypts.

Buy the new Nagash model, and use the old Nagash model as the top of his staff.

Get a large ass throne and have him sit on it. Fec has a cool throne to start with.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I wish I could find a comparison picture. I've never seen the new model assembled so, while I know that it is bigger I have no idea how much bigger.

Watch the painting tutorial for Nagash that Duncan did fow GW when the new model was released. It will give you a good idea of its size.

Unless there's something in some tourney rules pack your choosing to use,, the only word from GW on this is found in the Basing guide errata on the community page.

It lists a SUGGESTED based size. And then stresses the point that it's a suggestion, not mandatory.

The BEST advice though?
Discuss the matter with those you actually intend to play with. It's their opinion that matters.
Or, if you're tourney bound? Check the rules for THAT tourney/contact the organizers. They've answered these questions before.

ccs wrote:
Unless there's something in some tourney rules pack your choosing to use,, the only word from GW on this is found in the Basing guide errata on the community page.

It lists a SUGGESTED based size. And then stresses the point that it's a suggestion, not mandatory.

The BEST advice though?
Discuss the matter with those you actually intend to play with. It's their opinion that matters.
Or, if you're tourney bound? Check the rules for THAT tourney/contact the organizers. They've answered these questions before.

Technically all rules are only a suggestions, you also have open, narrative, and match play, Base sizes are more meant for match play. At some point the players wanting to play as balance as possible need to agree to certain things which Base sizing is one of them.

Its not even just about balance to be honest. It's about being able to turn up for a pickup game and have a more or less shared understanding of the rules, without having to discuss every possible trip up ahead of time.

That's why if you don't know to the contrary its better to assume the base size suggestions are in force.

If you have a regular set of opponent's though then yes, as already suggested, you really just need to have this chat with them.

 Stux wrote:
Its not even just about balance to be honest. It's about being able to turn up for a pickup game and have a more or less shared understanding of the rules, without having to discuss every possible trip up ahead of time.

That's why if you don't know to the contrary its better to assume the base size suggestions are in force.

If you have a regular set of opponent's though then yes, as already suggested, you really just need to have this chat with them.

Right, and while the rules say base sizes are suggestion, it also says you still have to measure as if it was the correct size, meaning the wrong base size is going to make games more annoying for both players.

Always assume all matched play rules are default and in effect unless discussed otherwise.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
While I acknowledge that he would be much smaller than the new model I don't think that it would be modelling for advantage since it is an "official GW product" for Nagash. Not that I don't agree that he shouldn't be used just that it doesn't violate that specific rule. (It's like using RT era temies in 40K).

I mean...if I melt current nagash down into a small ball of plastic goo and put that on a base, that's technically still an 'official GW product' doesn't mean it's not modeling for advantage.