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2021/12/21 18:29:54
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
They are far too large for the board. Even Annika and the Rat guy don't fit with their length - models in the game may go beyond their base size (with weapons for example), but not at the base itself.
They’re also not push fit. I’d be very surprised if they did non-push fit minis for a board game.
2021/12/21 20:12:05
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
We’ve all know no matter what they do somebody or some group will chastise them.
Not sure about that argument. Just because they won't make everyone happy all the time, the amount of unhappy people and their reasons for unhappiness with GW's behavior will be rather different based on what that behaviour is. GW's failure to communicate anything during the CC debacle didn't just give the usual haters ammunition, it was also a major turn off for people legitimately enthusiastic about the release.
Yet they seem to still be selling everything really well. I don't know of anyone who threw out their miniature collection or set it ablaze due to the CC debacle. Actually more people are playing at my local game store now with new armies compared to before CC. Wether it's because they had cash to spend, more time to paint or whatever, the lack of communications has not "Hurt" them. Maybe they lost out on some possible sales, but if people are claiming that the game is really bad as I have read here in this thread, maybe it's for the better that they did not instantly restock it. GW is still making money, they are still expanding their market, and their is still demand for their games. Them being quiet has only caused rage here in forums which is small potatoes to the rest of the gaming world.
Mark Twain said it best "It is best to remain silent and thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt." GW is remaining silent on the issue. You can continue to criticize their plan, but we don't know the "truth" behind what happened with the release and why it's so botched. What would they have to gain from bringing it up again? People are not going to let it go either way. Either they will continue to criticize how poorly it was handled and say how they could have done it differently, or moan about why it wasn't handled earlier.
If people are truly turned off and will never come back to GW it hasn't stopped them from bringing in enough new blood to replace them. I fell away from GW for about 3 editions, tired of the creep and the rules. I returned with Indomitus and Dominion, mainly due to the new models, but mostly because I have a little more time available and wanted to get back to the "Main game out there". Just not enough competition to lead me elsewhere. The people who are truly turned off will eventually return, or they were probably at the end of their miniature gaming life cycle. It happens, I left miniatures for a D&D campaign for 3-4 year over a decade ago. I had time one night a week because of school, kids and work where I could do that but not enough for the miniature gaming. People change their lifestyles, gaming styles and sometimes they come back. GW knows it, if they upset someone now, they know they have a chance of them coming back later. One bad decision is not going to ruin them forever, if it did then a majority of us wouldn't be here currently.
Well, I wasn't saying their handling of the Cursed City situation was something in the order of magnitude akin to blowing up the Warhammer Fantasy world and creating AoS, so no, of course the reactions weren't equally overblown either. All I'm saying is that some level of communication on the matter ("Whelp, that sure sold out quickly! We'll look into ways to possibly bring the set back into production, but for the moment can't unfortunately tell you if or when.") would have caused zero harm (they already sold out, they're not losing sales from people still on the fence) aside from to scalpers (and f them), while acknowledging the situation and... that's it. The not-chronically angry part of the "fan"base would have been happier with that than the actual handling of the situation, which will have led to some level of reduced enthusiasm for the eventual return of Cursed City, or some level of loss of faith in GW. Perhaps major, perhaps minor, but overall a worse outcome than the barest of minimal amounts of communication could have provided. I think. Unless there was a legitimate reason not to be able to comment on the matter at all, but that is fully speculative.
2021/12/21 21:20:15
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
frankelee wrote: GW's moves around Cursed City are debated on the internet, but I have a feeling literally nobody back in the real world who manages a business looks at the situation and goes, "Oooh, I gotta learn from that."
People who imagine this toy maker is filled with a lot of Warren Buffets of plastic production, who follow the narrow golden path of genius business moves may as well keep on imagining. It's all idle internet fun anyway.
Absolutely. If things go wrong, then obviously it‘s always been the other guy‘s fault anyway.
2021/12/21 21:30:47
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
While I don't think they didn't say anything so they could sell the character sprues for a ridiculous price, I do think someone in their offices decided to try and make the best of a bad situation. I think with all the Covid issues: all the shipping problems along with the power problems of the new facility and lockdowns I think they just froze. They didn't know what to do, so they did nothing and didn't want to say something to have it blow up in their faces. It blew up anyway, but at least this way they didn't compound the problem by promising something and being turned into a liar due to other issues later. It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
If they had said that CC would return, they would have been innundated with questions of WHEN? Why are you bothering releasing XXX when you should focus on CC? Will I still get it for the same price? Why Aren't there Space Marines in it? or a million other questions.
Silence is golden. I would actually give GW a thumbs up for keeping as tight of a lip as they did on this one. Seriously we usually have leaks and fake potato photos of everything, but I don't think I saw a peep about this over the last few weeks.
LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14
2021/12/21 23:11:20
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Theophony wrote: It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
Being fair to GW, their customer services responded to emails sent by those who made the effort. My own email reply has turned out to be true; "we are sorry but it was a limited run. While Cursed City might return later, possibly in a different form, we sadly do not have any more information at this time."
Being hard on GW, if their customer services are allowed to provide such information then there is no reason they couldn't have done the same on Warhammer Community to reach out to their wider customer base. Leaving their customers to stew for roughly eight months was poor form, as Youtube channels - most of whom didn't bother to get in contact with customer services - were speaking in GW's abscence, most of which was either insult to injury or just expressing outright anger.
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
2021/12/21 23:24:54
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Or community channels generating videos using their free review copy while (correctly but with poor empathy) telling folks who had missed out that they had no “right “ to buy something that a company has for sale.
Technically correct but definitely felt like an I’m alright, Jack moment.
Thread Slayer
2021/12/22 18:32:15
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Was the Van Denst duo ever released?
Father Daughter Witch hunter crew for the, "free realms".
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2021/12/22 18:33:19
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Grot 6 wrote: Was the Van Denst duo ever released?
Father Daughter Witch hunter crew for the, "free realms".
Yes, in the Cities of Sigmar section on the GW site.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2021/12/22 22:15:08
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Danny76 wrote: The expansions are just likely things we wouldn’t even think of etc..
Yeah. If they go a similar route as with Blackstone Fortress, I feel like we'll rather see a band of Fimir arrive via the Ulfenkarn sewers than just a bunch of other undead.
~~~ I Love The Power Glove. It's So Bad. ~~~
2021/12/22 22:47:12
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Theophony wrote: While I don't think they didn't say anything so they could sell the character sprues for a ridiculous price, I do think someone in their offices decided to try and make the best of a bad situation. I think with all the Covid issues: all the shipping problems along with the power problems of the new facility and lockdowns I think they just froze. They didn't know what to do, so they did nothing and didn't want to say something to have it blow up in their faces. It blew up anyway, but at least this way they didn't compound the problem by promising something and being turned into a liar due to other issues later. It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
If they had said that CC would return, they would have been innundated with questions of WHEN? Why are you bothering releasing XXX when you should focus on CC? Will I still get it for the same price? Why Aren't there Space Marines in it? or a million other questions.
Silence is golden. I would actually give GW a thumbs up for keeping as tight of a lip as they did on this one. Seriously we usually have leaks and fake potato photos of everything, but I don't think I saw a peep about this over the last few weeks.
This is exactly what happened.
Bottom line, they oversold the game, didn't have enough units on-hand, then COVID caught them with their pants down in both production, and in the production facility move. Add that to the printing shortage, and it hit them harder then they anticipated...
If you read between the lines, it appeared that they didn't have the facility up to speed to even begin in the COVID environment.
Don't expect anyone to admit to that, even if it's a natural progression, it's not one to cop up to.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2021/12/22 23:06:57
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Also I suspect that at the time they might not have known what the future was going to be for CC. Considering they released the evil faction models clearly early that suggests that for a time CC was dead in the water. It might even be a bit like the Cities of Sigmar - something that at management level was dead and then someone passionate pulled a few strings, spotted a way to bring it back and built a case that proved it could be done and would be profitable etc...
We might never get an answer and it might be different staff at different levels will give different answers based on what they know.
It could have been handled better, but in the end CC is returning, we are getting a second chance and its getting expansions. It has risen from the grave
Danny76 wrote: The expansions are just likely things we wouldn’t even think of etc..
Yeah. If they go a similar route as with Blackstone Fortress, I feel like we'll rather see a band of Fimir arrive via the Ulfenkarn sewers than just a bunch of other undead.
Yeah that could be a good shout.
2021/12/24 02:37:01
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Polonius wrote: I'd guess they cheat the price up 10-20 bucks, but trying to predict GW's pricing is always a mystery.
Depending on how deep a bench of expansions they have planned, they may keep the base box price low to attract more buyers. It probably also depends if they are going to produce CC for a while, or if they are making one more big run.
GW has never in my recollection lowered the price of a kit or set once the price has been revealed
2021/12/24 09:22:17
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
Which is a fairly sensible move when they are in a market which doesn't depreciate over time. GW aren't alone, pretty much all the model manufacturers I can think of generally set a price, stick to that price and over the years the price only ever goes up.
Now sure many others DO have sales periods and sometimes very big sales, but the model market is long term products that last for years to decades. It can't take the same marketing approach of DVDs and such where prices are slashed fast and the focus is always on the newest highest priced release and old stuff is old stock to be cleared fast to make way for the new.
Heck the only time we see prices going down in wargaming tends to be when the firm is struggling (for whatever reason) and has to shift stock to try and generate hype and to stay afloat. So its generally an unhealthy sign that something is wrong.
or when companies replace old kits/books with upgrades new ones
as if the old kit is replaced by the new ones, the old ones are on sale or drop in price (specially if material changes)
same as if old books are replaced with a new Edition
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/12/24 10:47:49
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
2022/01/01 09:47:49
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I've always viewed this as a more business orientated decision. Heroquest is about to be re-released which might attract income that might have otherwise been spent at GW. CC may well be an attempt for GW to keep that income.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
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2022/01/01 16:16:07
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I've always viewed this as a more business orientated decision. Heroquest is about to be re-released which might attract income that might have otherwise been spent at GW. CC may well be an attempt for GW to keep that income.
Heroquest had a strong run and name recognition. Cursed City just had a crash a burn. I don't see the similiarities.
2022/01/01 18:27:39
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I don't really see the point in renaming it? If it's called Unholy Municipality people are still going to know what it is.
Unless they do something like rewriting the rules at the same time, but I don't imagine they're going to do that.
2022/01/01 18:59:34
Subject: Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
Hype is over? It's a boardgame with some guys and gals fighting masses of Undead. Not some freaks in a labyrinth. Or Chaos warriors in the sewers. Or random opponents in every room (orcs, skaven, Fimir, bats, goblins...). No. Undead. And only Undead. You can't go wrong with that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/01 19:00:08
2022/01/04 00:26:45
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
As far as I'm concerned, the expansions may be very well anything from an expansion box to a White Dwarf article giving rules for existing miniatures.
There's actually rules working very close like old Warhammer Quest's random dungeons in Cursed City, I wouldn't mind having a game mode focusing more on these rules.
2022/02/20 15:05:08
Subject: Re:Cursed City returns in 2022. With expansions!
