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 Lance845 wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

And that 3rd ed cover. It doesn't mean anything because they are next to nothing to use as a reference for size.

There is a Warrior as a reference there.

Warrior or a Hive Tyrant? Hive Tyrants had a head crest like warriors back then. In the picture I posted a warrior is AT LEAST double the size Space Marine. THAT isn't true in the models. Again, when are hormagaunts EVER described as being dog sized? Point to 1 single game mention of that.

Earliest gaunt scale reference I can find (Epic: Hive War - probably the first Tyranids-specific material GW made) describes Termagants as "between one and two metres tall". That means there's going to be a lot of scope for variation, especially in early artwork.

It's also current canon that Hormagaunts hatch from egg infestations then grow to maturity. Technically you could have smaller ones around until they eat enough to reach full size.

tl;dr - both of you are correct

 xttz wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

And that 3rd ed cover. It doesn't mean anything because they are next to nothing to use as a reference for size.

There is a Warrior as a reference there.

Warrior or a Hive Tyrant? Hive Tyrants had a head crest like warriors back then. In the picture I posted a warrior is AT LEAST double the size Space Marine. THAT isn't true in the models. Again, when are hormagaunts EVER described as being dog sized? Point to 1 single game mention of that.

Earliest gaunt scale reference I can find (Epic: Hive War - probably the first Tyranids-specific material GW made) describes Termagants as "between one and two metres tall". That means there's going to be a lot of scope for variation, especially in early artwork.

It's also current canon that Hormagaunts hatch from egg infestations then grow to maturity. Technically you could have smaller ones around until they eat enough to reach full size.

tl;dr - both of you are correct

Is that height or length? Because if length, the image from IA4 still stands placing them at big dog/lion sized.

Dudeface wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

And that 3rd ed cover. It doesn't mean anything because they are next to nothing to use as a reference for size.

There is a Warrior as a reference there.

Warrior or a Hive Tyrant? Hive Tyrants had a head crest like warriors back then. In the picture I posted a warrior is AT LEAST double the size Space Marine. THAT isn't true in the models. Again, when are hormagaunts EVER described as being dog sized? Point to 1 single game mention of that.

Earliest gaunt scale reference I can find (Epic: Hive War - probably the first Tyranids-specific material GW made) describes Termagants as "between one and two metres tall". That means there's going to be a lot of scope for variation, especially in early artwork.

It's also current canon that Hormagaunts hatch from egg infestations then grow to maturity. Technically you could have smaller ones around until they eat enough to reach full size.

tl;dr - both of you are correct

Is that height or length? Because if length, the image from IA4 still stands placing them at big dog/lion sized.

Exactly. Nids codex says Termagant is about 2 metres from head to end of tail, which also supports the 1,3 metre hight from the Anphelion Project image.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/03/new-plastic-aeldari-guardians/

Dudeface wrote:
Guardsmen, fire warriors, pathfinders, some older marine torsos, ork boyz, skitarii, guardians. They all have a ball/socket head in some capacity with single piece head/torso. Maybe not the best heads re undercuts etc. but it's not impossible. Even genestealers aren't far off thinking bout it.

I'm not familiar with all of those. I'm not aware of any space marines that use ball/socket and aren't a two piece torso? I'm not terribly familiar with Eldar Guardians, but the ones I've seen that utilise a ball/socket joint do so with a two piece torso. Cadians I'd argue it's a compromised design to get them to be a ball/socket, but it kinda works okay because of the helmet and collar, though DKoK they went away from that idea. Ork Boyz are an exception that get away with it because of their extreme kyphosis (gorilla like pose) that lets the "ball" be on the front of the body and the socked on the back of the head (i.e. not the bottom of the head like Tyranids). I'm not that familiar with the Skitarii or new Genestealers to know what they're like.

Obviously it's not impossible to make a ball / socket in one piece per side, it's just impossible to make the Termagants, Hormagaunts, Raveners and Tyranid Warriors ball / socket without significantly changing the aesthetics of them.

Basically, it's specific to the geometry of the model, and those models don't have a geometry that would work.

More than that I never found the two piece heads a huge problem, especially the ones on Warriors and Raveners, if they make future Termagants and Hormagants like that it's be fine. But I definitely don't want to see them compromising the aesthetic or reducing the poseability of them for the sake of having 1 piece heads on models that have details on more than 2 sides so will naturally have undercuts if cast in 1 piece.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think I've built about 60 gaunts over the years...

Is that all?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Aren't you normally the one extolling the virtues of multipose? Or am I thinking of someone else.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
This is exactly what popped into my head when I read it.

JWBS wrote:
No. You weren't wrong. That's him.

Who the hell said anything about multi-/mono-pose? But hey, nice attempt at attacking me rather than my point.

Miniatures that are bad to assemble can be both, and Gaunts are horrible to assemble. And the idea that removing two-piece heads would suddenly make them mono-pose is fething absurd. You all know that. Stop trying to make this a mono-/multi-pose thing when it's not.

Of course it is. If you want the head to be separate from the body, with the head being able to be posed any way you choose, then either the head or the body needs to be in two parts to enable the ball and socket joint which is required, due to the limitations of plastic tooling. Eg, Kabalite warriors, Tactical squad, Gaunts, etc etc etc.

I'm not sure what difference it would make having the body in two parts instead of the head, apart from taking up too much sprue space, which was defo a consideration at the time?

But you know this, presumably, so god knows what the point of this conversation is

Guardsmen, fire warriors, pathfinders, some older marine torsos, ork boyz, skitarii, guardians. They all have a ball/socket head in some capacity with single piece head/torso. Maybe not the best heads re undercuts etc. but it's not impossible. Even genestealers aren't far off thinking bout it.

Yeah, but as you imply with your "Maybe not the best heads" comment, some designs need undercuts to look good, which can't be done in one piece using high impact styrene. It's self evident which designs these are.

Except undercuts aren't really a concern on Gaunt heads. The only part of their head anatomy where this would come into play is the area where the armoured plates meet the rest of the head, and the current models already have that area cast in a single piece on one half of the head, proving it can be done (and could be done with the technology of... 15 years ago? How old is the Gaunt kit now?)

The models end up with a head that has a sharper undercut on one side, which is honestly a worse look than if they had softer but symmetrical undercuts on both sides.

Besides, being able to reposition a head -- already one of the universally-easiest modifications to accomplish, even when you have to cut plastic -- is not worth having a seam going directly down the front of a model's face.

What the split heads can actually do is accommodate open mouths. But the Gargoyles still do this, with slightly less fidelity and more "mysterious soft tissue" packed into the negative space around the gaping maw.

At the very least, Gaunt heads should be recut in the same format as Warrior heads (as someone already mentioned).

I would rather termagants/hormagaunts had their bodies changed. Their bodies are the worst.

I hate the fragile leg placements (especially the lunging hormagaunts). And I hate the stiff strait poses of every model.

zamerion wrote:

Spoiler:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/03/new-plastic-aeldari-guardians/

I'm feeling better and better about thinking that there's Something Happening with regards to Guard Heavy Weapon Teams now. Orks got their Bomb Squigs and the like in their boxes, the GSC got HWTs packed into their Brood Brother set, Aeldari are retaining Weapon Platforms, Tau have had Drones baked into the sprues...

But DKoK didn't include HWTs. The Cadian repack didn't even include the existing sprue like GSC got.

 Lance845 wrote:
I would rather termagants/hormagaunts had their bodies changed. Their bodies are the worst.

I hate the fragile leg placements (especially the lunging hormagaunts). And I hate the stiff strait poses of every model.

I'm 50/50 on that, I think the current bodies look horrible as singular models or in small groups, but as a swarm they kind of work. I'm open to what alternatives might look like, but it'd suck if they changed it so that they no longer look good as a swarm.

 Lance845 wrote:
I would rather termagants/hormagaunts had their bodies changed. Their bodies are the worst.

I hate the fragile leg placements (especially the lunging hormagaunts). And I hate the stiff strait poses of every model.

And this is another reason we need new gaunts (of all kinds). And they will come for sure because if Eldar got new troops then everything is possbile

zamerion wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/03/new-plastic-aeldari-guardians/

I'm very impressed with the new guardians. This is how you properly update core troops. They look like they'd mix with the last plastics well.

I'm tempted to buy a box. I've painted up a decent force of modern Eldar models in the last 5 or 6 years even though my Ulthwe haven't taken the table since 3rd edition...

I greatly enjoy how much the talk of Gaunts in this New Years Sneak Peak discussion darn near made me pass over seeing the new Guardians.

Yup, that's a proper update. Eldar are shaping up to be a very promising release. Can't wait to see Maugan Ra and the Avatar in full.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I greatly enjoy how much the talk of Gaunts in this New Years Sneak Peak discussion darn near made me pass over seeing the new Guardians.

To be fair, there's an entire thread devoted to Aeldari.

Has the lore on craftworld Eldar going into battle without their helmets changed?

I may be rust with my lore, but isn't the helmet part of the thing that helps to keep the path of the warrior different from their everyday life path. Not wearing a helmet means that they have got lost somewhere and are a bit of a wildcard.

They’re for Ynnari forces.

 stonehorse wrote:
Has the lore on craftworld Eldar going into battle without their helmets changed?

I may be rust with my lore, but isn't the helmet part of the thing that helps to keep the path of the warrior different from their everyday life path. Not wearing a helmet means that they have got lost somewhere and are a bit of a wildcard.

I think helmetless is used as a Ynnari thing, I dunno if they do the whole Path thing in the same way. And I don’t think Guardians are on the Path of the Warrior are they? They’re a militia. The old kit had helmetless ones too.

Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

The choice of an armored belly button for the female guardians is a bit odd...

 ImAGeek wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

I am not sure if it counts but Custodes jetbikers have only a bare head for their captain.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

I am not sure if it counts but Custodes jetbikers have only a bare head for their captain.

Not really, because there’s still enough helmets for all the models in the box.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

I am not sure if it counts but Custodes jetbikers have only a bare head for their captain.

Not really, because there’s still enough helmets for all the models in the box.

Unless you want a captain in helmet

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

I am not sure if it counts but Custodes jetbikers have only a bare head for their captain.

Not really, because there’s still enough helmets for all the models in the box.

Unless you want a captain in helmet

Just put a helmet on it. But the Guardian kit doesn’t make a captain equivalent anyway. It’s not really an example of what I’m getting at.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Not too familiar with Ynnari lore.

Hope the kit has enough helmets to do the whole Squad with helmets.

I wouldn’t worry. I can’t think of many, if any, examples of a kit where the unit usually has helmets that doesn’t have enough helmeted heads for everyone.

I am not sure if it counts but Custodes jetbikers have only a bare head for their captain.

Not really, because there’s still enough helmets for all the models in the box.

Unless you want a captain in helmet

Just put a helmet on it. But the Guardian kit doesn’t make a captain equivalent anyway. It’s not really an example of what I’m getting at.

There are only regular Custodes helmets so your captain will look exactly as others because there is no different body etc. for him. And yes, it is not the same situation as with the Eldar here

 stonehorse wrote:
Has the lore on craftworld Eldar going into battle without their helmets changed?

I may be rust with my lore, but isn't the helmet part of the thing that helps to keep the path of the warrior different from their everyday life path. Not wearing a helmet means that they have got lost somewhere and are a bit of a wildcard.

Not sure what's said about the guardian helmets, but I *think* that's mostly an Aspect Warrior-thing. It has to do with them devoting themselves fully to war/their path and becoming less of individuals outside of that. Guardians, however, are just normal citizens who serve in the military in times of need. Still people with normal lives and occupations at home, and such

Those new guardians are absolutely fantastic. Nothing too major in terms of change but it is a nice refresh. Really good to see, not looking forward to seeing what the price is. But I'll definitely be picking up a combat patrol box.

ursvamp wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Has the lore on craftworld Eldar going into battle without their helmets changed?

I may be rust with my lore, but isn't the helmet part of the thing that helps to keep the path of the warrior different from their everyday life path. Not wearing a helmet means that they have got lost somewhere and are a bit of a wildcard.

Not sure what's said about the guardian helmets, but I *think* that's mostly an Aspect Warrior-thing. It has to do with them devoting themselves fully to war/their path and becoming less of individuals outside of that. Guardians, however, are just normal citizens who serve in the military in times of need. Still people with normal lives and occupations at home, and such

Ah yes I can see Eldar Civilians going "big armour is hiding the side effects of helmets, it's never ben proven enemy gunfire even exists, muh freedoms" and refusing a helmet

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I greatly enjoy how much the talk of Gaunts in this New Years Sneak Peak discussion darn near made me pass over seeing the new Guardians.

To be fair, there's an entire thread devoted to Aeldari.

To be doubly fair, the Guardians also aren't a "sneak peek", it's a full blown preview.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I greatly enjoy how much the talk of Gaunts in this New Years Sneak Peak discussion darn near made me pass over seeing the new Guardians.

To be fair, there's an entire thread devoted to Aeldari.

To be doubly fair, the Guardians also aren't a "sneak peek", it's a full blown preview.

But I don't believe that anything about possible Gaunt head sculpts and how many pieces they should be/their size is a preview or a New Years sneak peak...